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Posted By: StuyMac 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 11:18am
18 Year old with a bit more than he can handle....?

Post 46 is the turning point in the thread.

Link
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 11:29am
Not really what I was expecting; what a waste.

frown
Posted By: StuyMac Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 11:35am
Not much left of it was there...

Video link at pottom of the page.
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 11:38am
Yeah... pretty shocking tbh.
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 11:46am
omg thats so sad..... very shocking and makes you think that all these kids driving round in high performance cars need extra/ high performance training...
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 11:47am
Not just kid's though, happens to adults, and indeed even the most experienced of driver's. Excessive speed can, and unfortunatly DOES kill.

Of course we can factor in the possible intoxication of alcahol and not wearing seatbelts in this crash, but judging by the state of the car, drunken and seatbelts or not, if the car had crashed at that speed, I wouldnt have held out much hope for anyone's survival, and would'nt have wanted to survive it tbh!

There's a lesson for everyone to be learnt from this tragedy... not that it will slow people down who want to go fast.

smile
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 11:56am
i no its not just kids, but they are the ones who always seem to be out to impress, u just have to look at the times we had the meets in new brighton at the perch rock, some of the numptys that where about then, or even now at the rock.... the idiots we see down there and 99% of them are new young drivers out to impress their mates...and its such a waste when things do go wrong.
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:02pm
Originally Posted by jonah
i no its not just kids, but they are the ones who always seem to be out to impress, u just have to look at the times we had the meets in new brighton at the perch rock, some of the numptys that where about then, or even now at the rock.... the idiots we see down there and 99% of them are new young drivers out to impress their mates...and its such a waste when things do go wrong.

Yeah I see your point, but its more often then not they are the one's who dont really have the car to do such terrifying speeds. It's usually 25+ year old's in Mondeo's (Scott is fast approaching this stereotype lmao) and the like that I see ragging around everywhere as though they are on an F1 track, ponces with CooperS's and the like... the reason kid's don't tend to drive these type's of cars in the UK is due to insurance companies being more sensible and pricing them out of the market.

Which is pain in the arse when ya young, but we have to agree, it must help prevent a hell of a lot of accidents like this, where the kid would jump into an insanely fast car that is well beyond their driving skill and crash it within weeks.

smile
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:11pm
its not always the speed tho matt,its the way they drive too, even tho the cars are not fast, they push them to their limits which is beyond their driving capabilities. passing your test does not mean you are a good driver, it means you have reached basic competence, i still believe that u dont learn to drive UNTIL you have passed your test...but too many new/young drivers think that cos they have passed, they are entitled to drive like t**ts and endager themselves, their friends and the rest of the population too..
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:21pm
Yes that's fair enough, but I see far more "experienced" drivers making downright stupid mistakes, speeding, and generally thinking they "own" the road then I do younger drivers.

Unfortunatly, younger drivers have a bad reputation due to the fact that there is a small minority of hooligan's, who are generally classed as "boy racer's" who do stupid things and write off car's, cause and get involved in accident's etc...

But in all honesty, in my own experience, the older driver's seem a lot worse then younger drivers, sometime's its probably because they are not up to date with the rule's of the road, sometimes it's due to complacency, sometimes it's due to them simply not giving a damn about anyone else on the road because they have been driving X amount of year's and think that entitle's them to freedom on the roads, and last but not least, sometimes it's due to them simply taking speed for granted, thinking that because they have been driving for x amount of years, it means they can drive at 100mph safely.

There isnt many drivers on the road who have had any form of race specification training, yet there are ton's of drivers who cant help but drive everywhere as if they are on a race track.

As I say, personally I find 25+ males the biggest problem on the road when it come's to speeding, and women in general the biggest problem when it comes to general driving ability. The biggest problem in terms of stupidity is admittadly the 17 - 21 age range, mainly male's, but they don't generally have the car's to be driving at stupid speed's and tend to understand the roads better then one might think!

smile
Posted By: StuyMac Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:37pm
Personally, I think its down to experience not age.

The age factor does however come in to it, as younger drivers are generally more likely to show off, or be more niave to the consequences...

I know one poster who Im sure is very qualified to post under this topic wink
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:40pm
think thats what i was trying to say just in a long winded way ! so stuymac is this now a game of guess who..? think
Posted By: StuyMac Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:46pm
Not at all - I was thinking Mr Tastic smile
Posted By: Wheels Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:49pm
wow.

RIP.
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:49pm
raftl oh didnt realise you meant in that way, thought you meant as a young hooligan... lol... or can u think of some of them too ? think
Posted By: StuyMac Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:50pm
Originally Posted by jonah
thought you meant as a young hooligan... lol... or can u think of some of them too ? think


www.midnightracing.co.uk raftl
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 12:51pm
well apart form them... raftl
Posted By: StuyMac Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 1:55pm
Quoted from another forum - put it quite well I think:

Quote


I see the grown ups on that forum have the same premonitions we do on here. pity they sometimes come true.

maybe the invincability of youth is heightened when you obviously come from money.

i was young (once) and some of my driving was probably questionable, but it was in a fiat 127, which I had saved for, so if it went wrong, it was probably at 15mph, and as I had to work for the car, I appreciated what I would loose (as in the car, not my own life, at 18 you are immortal)

here you go son, here's an M5 - christ why not just give him a machine gun and a shopping mall.

makes you wonder why there are laws like needing to have held a clean driving licence for 5 years before driving a car over group 10. Most of us work our way up, so it's no big deal, and would stop the super rich idiots.

I mean it doesn't matter how rich you are, you cannot let your 10 year old drive your Ferrari down the motorway, even if he is very mature for his age.

very sad. but unfortunately predictable
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 1:57pm
true, very true !
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 1:59pm
So in essence, what is being suggested, is that a driver will only crash a fast car if he/she is young and hasnt paid for it... yeah, okay clap
Posted By: StuyMac Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 2:01pm
I think the onus is on the fact that a young inexperienced driver, in a performance car he has little respect for, is a toxic mix.

M4tty, what do you think the contributing factor in the crash was - Id say driver error.....
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 2:07pm
Yes, but instead of just pointing the finger solely at age, how about considering the other factors, primarily speed?

There are plenty of high performance car's involved in crashes, very few of which are driven by younger driver due to financial constraint's.

You yourself Stuy are a qualified race driver are you not? This mean's you would have a much better idea of how to control a car at high speeds, during periods of high acceleration then even the most experienced 50 year old, as much as he/she would like to think different.

Experience can only account for so much; driving at high speed's can kill anyone, especially if alcahol is added into the mix, as it seem's likely in this case. This risk is undoubtedly lessened with more experience, but not to the degree that I would get into a car and feel even remotely safe with that person, unless he/she has had some sort of race standard/fast driving training.

smile
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 2:11pm
Originally Posted by StuyMac
M4tty, what do you think the contributing factor in the crash was - Id say driver error.....

Most probably related to driver error yes, although it could be something else, we don't know for sure.

But one thing does look certain, the driver is believed to have been intoxicated with alcahol, which, no matter how experienced or even trained a person is, will slowdown reaction times and cause the brain to make errors, which can both cause an accident and result in that accident being fatal.

But either way, crashing at high speed (look at the state of the car lol) is the sole reason these kid's are dead, and no amount of age or experience could have averted the consequences of a crash at that speed.

Hence my point, there is a lesson for everyone to learn from it, speed kills.

frown
Posted By: StuyMac Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 2:32pm
Originally Posted by MattLFC

But one thing does look certain, the driver is believed to have been intoxicated with alcahol, which, no matter how experienced or even trained a person is, will slowdown reaction times and cause the brain to make errors, which can both cause an accident and result in that accident being fatal.


no It says its not been ruled out, nothing is "certain" until the autopsy results come back.

Im my mear 11 years of driving I belive the youngest age group to be the worst at making calculated decisions. A fast car is always going to be dangerous and this combination (maybe with alcahol also) has proved lethal in this case.

I think if you look at the statistics, young drivers are most likely to be involved in an accident - hence why insurance is so high when you start driving.

Maybe Mark and Chris could comment with the voices of more experience, Id also like to hear Mr Tastics Views smile
Posted By: chiccy Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 3:03pm
good god, read almost all of the 2 threads poor familys frown pretty eerie that 1st post started by him
Posted By: MrPhil Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 3:20pm
bet the lads dad who let him drive the M5 is the most gutted for giving him the chance to drive it.
Posted By: scoop Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 3:32pm
very unfortunate this,its not his age that is the problem tho (from what i can summarise reading only a few posts and watching the video)

i assume he was doing a high speed run on an airstrip (weather he was allowed on the airstrip or not i dont know,probably was) and he didnt break early enough,ran out of runway.

The above could happen to anyone as doing Vmax tests on a runway,as jeremy clarkson shows on top gear is a dangerous thing as u cant judge how many metres u have left until all u can see is grass. shudda laid out braking markers or not pushed it so far
Posted By: StuyMac Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 3:37pm
...and John Travolta forgets how much runway is left when he lands his planes and frequently ends up in the trees... whistle

The reason Clarkson, and other people doign VMax tests dont crash is because they have the experience to realise all this, and the forward thinking to layout such markers without going balls out off the end of the runway clap
Posted By: MrPhil Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 3:37pm
Originally Posted by scoop2004
very unfortunate this,its not his age that is the problem tho (from what i can summarise reading only a few posts and watching the video)

i assume he was doing a high speed run on an airstrip (weather he was allowed on the airstrip or not i dont know,probably was) and he didnt break early enough,ran out of runway.

The above could happen to anyone as doing Vmax tests on a runway,as jeremy clarkson shows on top gear is a dangerous thing as u cant judge how many metres u have left until all u can see is grass. shudda laid out braking markers or not pushed it so far


on another post on the site it says their is braking markers, maybe night time was a factor.
Posted By: MrPhil Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 3:38pm
Originally Posted by StuyMac
...and John Travolta forgets how much runway is left when he lands his planes and frequently ends up in the trees... whistle


or his house raftl
Posted By: Davey_Martin Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 4:24pm
google maps coordinates...

29.278875,-82.120399

so was that the guy that was postin on the forums up until that point tho or could it still be a very coincidental situation?
Posted By: Civic_Coupe_Sean Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 4:31pm
Got to be him frown All adds up....
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 6:00pm
cant get on this anymore..... its asking me to log in....
Posted By: Civic_Coupe_Sean Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 6:05pm
Yeah same here, I could get on it before tho.....
Posted By: BMW Joe Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 6:08pm
no must have been a horrible few seconds before death

As already mentioned, very sad, but unfortunately predictable.
Posted By: Cali_16v Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 6:23pm
couldn't get on the forums but get an idea of what it was about from the posts on here.

nasty stuff.

R.I.P
Posted By: chiccy Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 29th Jan 2008 8:33pm
hope this link helps.....

click me...
Posted By: scoop Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 30th Jan 2008 1:54am
Originally Posted by Philw
Originally Posted by StuyMac
...and John Travolta forgets how much runway is left when he lands his planes and frequently ends up in the trees... whistle


or his house raftl


well considering planes brake very hard from the instant they touch down and not continue on as long as they dare then its completely different, he was silly for not laying out markers/looking for existing markers/driving in the dark where he couldnt see the markers but any person with no forsight and safety thinking could make this mistake.
Posted By: exploding_penguin Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 30th Jan 2008 1:54pm
i know this has already been said, but i dont think its age. im mean take a look at all the young talent in motorsport these days! (many of them in cars with a lot more power than an m5) yes im hardly 1 to be arguing the point with what ive done in the past but i belive that because of the mistakes ive made im now a better driver than i was, true i could have take my learnigs from other ppls mistakes but is that realy the same?
There are a worse thing on the roads than young drivers e.g. Drunks, uninsured, thives in stolen motors, even old ppl.
yes new drives have a lot to learn but are they the biggest risk on the roads?
Posted By: Davey_Martin Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 30th Jan 2008 4:06pm
Originally Posted by Cali_16v
couldn't get on the forums but get an idea of what it was about from the posts on here.

nasty stuff.

R.I.P


basically there was a guy on there asking about different settings for the m5.. when the other forum members found out he was 18, some of them basically said there was no way he had an m5 at just 18... this went on then on the 25th, the guy who said he had an m5 said he will post his pics up of him with the car the next day... saturday the 26th comes and there's no sign of this guy anymore on the site... the guys name was josh and from the same area in which the crash happened...

either a bizarre coincidence or a sad result of a young guy getting a 500hp motor to play with
Posted By: Civic_Coupe_Sean Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 30th Jan 2008 4:12pm
It was his dads M5 he just said it was his......
Posted By: Davey_Martin Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 30th Jan 2008 4:13pm
i know yea lol
Posted By: Beemertastic Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 30th Jan 2008 8:26pm
Originally Posted by MattLFC
Excessive speed can, and unfortunatly DOES kill.

smile


It isnt speed that kills...its the sudden stop at the end...lol
Posted By: MattLFC Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 30th Jan 2008 8:36pm
Lmao good way of looking at it grin

I suppose excessive speed in a Challenger tank isnt gonna kill you no matter what... unless a Talibani bomb goes off of course tease

lamethrower
Posted By: Anonymous Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 30th Jan 2008 10:30pm
Idiot, plain and simple. Although we all have to learn somehow and somewhere, 3am, pitch black in your dads brand new M5 isnt the time or the place.

His parents are also idiots for letting him use the car, that much is true.

I feel sorry for the others in the car, and im sure if i was the other kids parents i would be going ape shit right now, how irresponsible can you get.

For the record, it cant be a coincidence, he signed one of his posts 'Josh' and Josh was the driver, car was correct colour, year, same area, he never posted again?

The whole situation could so easily have been avoided.
Posted By: Civic_Coupe_Sean Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 31st Jan 2008 2:09am
I do have to say tho, Fair play to him for taking it to an air strip rather then doing it on the roads......

Could have been worse if it was on the road.....
Posted By: Davey_Martin Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 31st Jan 2008 7:05pm
http://www.ocala.com/article/20080127/BREAKING_NEWS/274162577/1053/BREAKING_NEWS

i guess that's all the confirmation u could need to it being the same guy... although as alex pointed out to me earlier, it did all add up anyway...
Posted By: Civic_Coupe_Sean Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 31st Jan 2008 7:25pm
Driver of BMW in fatal crash sought Web advice on making it go faster

BY RICK CUNDIFF
Star-Banner
(Updated at 1:30 p.m.) OCALA - Less than 12 hours before he died, Joshua Ammirato was posting messages on an Internet message board seeking advice about how to drive his 2008 BMW M5 faster.

Ammirato, 18, logged onto M5board.com Thursday and Friday, asking other M5 drivers how to shift smoother in the 500-horsepower machine.

"The problem is when I'm going pedal to the metal pushing 140 and upshifting, there tends to be thud noise with the gear change," he wrote in one post.

Ammirato and four other young Marion County men were killed at about 3:45 a.m. Saturday, when the BMW M5 he was driving sailed off the end of the Greystone airstrip in Anthony and crashed into a tree.

Messages on the board devoted to M5 enthusiasts show Ammirato logged on shortly before 10 p.m. Thursday as "AmericanM5."

"Let me say I am beginner when it comes to high performance cars as I am only 18 so take it easy on me," he wrote.

Other members of the board expressed skepticism that Ammirato could have a car with a base price of $82,900 at such a young age, but warned him to take it easy until he gained more driving experience.

"Maybe your 2 years driving experience in your whole life is the problem," one member wrote.

"The fact that I never drove a manual car before may be true, but I've been driving for a lot longer than two years buddy," Ammirato responded.

Ammirato's M5, according to his posts, was equipped with a "sequential manual gearbox," which shifts like a traditional manual transmission, but without a clutch pedal.

Automobile Magazine has described the M5 as "a fearfully intimidating machine," with writer Michael Jordan adding "we've found that the SMG transmission ... makes you feel like a victim of speed, not its master."

Ammirato told forum members he'd had the car for about three weeks. The vehicle is registered to his father, Santo Ammirato, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.

In his posts, Joshua Ammirato listed his other cars as a 2008 BMW 535i, a 2007 BMW 335i and a 2007 Cadillac Escalade. All have less horsepower than the M5.

News of Ammirato's death drew condolences from forum members on Saturday and Sunday.

"My prayers are with Josh and his family as well. Being that I am 21 and going on my second M5 I know the temptation is great and sometimes hard to handle at that age," one member wrote. "This is a very serious car with extraordinary performance, i have learned to respect it because there is a VERY, VERY thin line between losing it and keeping it on the road."

Another hoped others would learn from the tragedy.

"Truly a sad, sad event. May God be with the families and friends," the poster wrote. "Hope that they have not died completely in vain -- that many young drivers (and their parents) will take this to heart and learn from it."

Ammirato asked forum members on Friday about turning off the M5's electronic stability control for higher performance. A member wrote back with concern.

"With all (due) respect, gradually learn your car before you turn off (stability control)," he wrote. "With a little mistake combination of your mind and your right foot, you can be history. Be safe and enjoy.

"P.S. People on this board care about each other, especially when someone owns 500 hp car at age of 18. Don't take it personal. We all watch each other(s) back."

Another member expressed concern about Ammirato's maturity.

"[I]t's just disturbing to know, if you're for real, that an 18 year old who is asking these questions about a 500hp car is driving the same streets I am. I don't have anything against young guys driving nice cars, but an 18 year old behind the wheel of an M5 is what accidents are made of," he wrote.

Ammirato responded at 5:33 p.m. Friday that he was responsible.

"I completely understand where you are coming from assuming that I am irresponsible ... that is definitely understandable. I do sometimes make bad decisions but I am young and I do drive safe and I will not endanger the lives of others."

A member from Australia again cautioned Ammirato to be careful.

"My only bit of advice matey -- If you crash in a big way expect to be on the news," he wrote. "Enjoy and resist the temptation to drag others at the lights."

Ammirato responded, in his last post, at 9:02 p.m. Friday.

"Thanks guys, don't get me wrong I never said I didn't respect your wisdom," he wrote. "[T]hanks for the welcome and I am looking forward to getting to know you guys better ... Josh."
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 31st Jan 2008 7:47pm
were ya c that matey??
Posted By: Davey_Martin Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 31st Jan 2008 8:10pm
on the link i posted in the post above his lol
Posted By: jonah Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 31st Jan 2008 8:11pm
oooh, not read the link....d'oh !
Posted By: Davey_Martin Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 31st Jan 2008 8:23pm
Quote
Out of the five boys not ONE of them has a clean driving record. Two have had citations during this month alone, including driving on a suspended license, expired tags and no insurance. (a quick check online at the clerk of courts is all you need to do to see it).


a post on that newspaper's website/forums
Posted By: chiccy Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 31st Jan 2008 8:24pm
still makes me feel a bit omgxxx
Posted By: Beemertastic Re: 18 + Powerful car (M5) = :o( - 2nd Feb 2008 1:29pm
hmm..methinks he would qualify for a darwin award......
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