I thought I'd share my experience on Miseryrail this morning. Normally they aren't too bad of late and I think they've come along way since the 80's.

This was a run in I'd had with a particular employee, who was being a prick with myself and other passengers on the train this morning.

I suppose I took some satisfaction in thinking that his job wasn't likely to exist in a few years when they replace the 507/508 classes as they will likely opt for guardless trains like on the London underground. I'm sure the drivers will be quite capable of opening and closing doors!

Logged as a complaint this morning:

Dear Sir,

I am a regular passenger on your network and use your services Monday to Friday to travel from Rock Ferry to Chester to go to work. I have done so for the last four years.

As I live and work someway from your stations I use your trains to transport my bicycle. Whenever possible I try to use the cycle storage facilities provided on your trains, but on many occasions these are full either with other bicycles, passengers, luggage or push chairs.

On 5th July 2010 I boarded the back carriage of the 8.57am service from Rock Ferry to Chester as all cycle storage facilities were occupied by other passengers; I carefully placed my bicycle near the doors on the opposite side of the train. These doors are only used once the train enters Chester station as they are on the opposite side of the doors that service stations from Rock Ferry to Bache.

There was nowhere else on the train to safely store the bike and it is not practical for me to traverse the whole length of the train through all the carriages to try to find a vacant cycle rack; as you could imagine it would be dangerous to other passengers for me to do this, particularly by going through the small doors that join the carriages together.

The train guard proceeded to check tickets shortly after the train had departed Bebbington station and asked “who’s is the bike?”. I replied to say that it was mine. He asked me to move it to which I asked “Where do you want me to move it to?” The guard replied that there are bike racks in each of the carriages. I stated that they were full.

The guard said that it could not stay by the doors; I replied that I had put the bike there for the last four years when the cycle racks were unavailable as there is quite simply nowhere else to put it. He replied “Other guards may let you put it there, but I don’t like it. If you don’t like what I’m saying you can get off the train”. Fortunately a passenger vacated the disabled bay and I was able to store my bike there for the remainder of the journey. Other passengers were shocked by the guard’s attitude to me.

In the four years I have travelled with by bike on your trains, no enforcement officer, driver or guard has ever asked me to move my bike from the position it was in this morning as it was safely stored away from being an obstruction to any passenger or train crew.

I took offence to the way the guard spoke to me as I was perfectly reasonable with him, there was quite simply was nowhere else to safely put the bike when I boarded the train.
Please can you follow this up with the guard of the 8.57am Rock Ferry to Chester service on 5/7/2010 as this is not the way I expect to be treated as a reasonable fair paying customer. Could you respond to this letter within 5 working days and inform me of the action you are taking as a result of this complaint.

Regards,

Neil.

Never had a problem with my bikes in the past if being on the train.

Take it the train was busy?

PS Quality attachment lol

I haven't been on a train for about 25 years and i can't picture what the cycle racks look like, if they had them that long ago i certainly can't remember them.If your bike was parked near the doors, is it possible the guard was concerned from a safety point of view, in the event of an accident the said doors may have been needed for evacuation. Is this type of thing a good reason to keep guards, to prevent doors which may be needed in case of emergency being blocked by bikes, prams and all manner of things. Is it not the case that the removal of guards is yet again putting profits before peoples safety and well being.

To open the said doors would mean that passengers would need to step onto the live rail. The train is always evacuated through either the front or rear door in the driver's cabin.

The london underground don't use guards and that is a significantly busier metro. Cameras or mirrors on the doors are sufficient to see what passengers are up to.

Train wasn't overly busy, but there quite simply was nowhere else to put the bike. I can't determine which carriages have free racks unless the train pulls into the station and the point I make is that it's not practical or safe for me to move the bike between carriages to find one.

I notice that they are building elaborate cycle racks at Hooton and Spital, perhaps they are trying to discourage passengers to take bikes on the trains. I would use them, but there isn't one at Rock Ferry and I need the bike for the onward journey.

Fair play

Sounds like a tosser of a guard. It is fustrating trying to manouver your bike around people when the racks are full. You end up standing near the doors holding the bike an moving eveytine some inpatient fool wants to get passed.

They should charge 10p more for a bike and that way you can say "I've paid for the rack" or something?

I mean they advertise that you can take your bike on the train in station posters and do provide cycle racks on the trains themselves. How the hell are you meant to know they are full or not until the train actually arrives!

I know what you mean about some impatient fool. Had an old guy ask me to move my bike even though we were both getting off at the same stop. Had a bit of fun winding him up as he was being completely unreasonable.

they wont detail the action they are taking due to confidentiality. all they can really tell u, from a legal standpoint is that they will deal with the situation.


on another note, despite ur typos, i'd say it's a fair enough letter, certainly appears the guy was being an absolute divvy and shouldnt be in the job he's in if he cant work with people lol!

Clearly the guard in this case is nowhere up to the job. He shouldn't be let loose anywhere near the public. Was this guy asleep during his training ? Maybe they don't bother with "How to deal with Joe Public" ??

I fully agree with Neil on this. Under the given circumstances, he weighed up the pro's and con's and put his bike by the offside doors. Here, it would be in no one's way AT ALL. Except at Chester where everyone would be getting off anyway. At all intermediate stations, passengers discharge on the nearside.

As has already been pointed out, in an emergency, no one would be allowed out via the offside doors down onto the 6 foot (live rail side). End doors would be used. At a push, maybe they could exit via the nearside doors down onto the cess. No live rail and no oncoming trains !

On my last visits to the Wirral, I've found the Wirral Line electrics to be spot on time, every time. Litter free, thanks to on-train "Presentation Staff" and staff in general were polite and some, dare I say, seem to have pride in their job !!! shock-horror ! I thought THAT had been done away with !

I hope Neil gets something more than a bland, standard letter in responce to his justified complaint. Hopefully, the guard will get his jotters.

ive noticed a few stations are putting cycle storage rooms in ,but its not much good if you need to use your bike after you get off the train.

Merseyrail might want to have a look at the U-bahn in Berlin and the way they sort their bikes out. A carriage with fold up seats along the bulk heads. Sounds more like a jobs worth guard to me, he should be a facilitator not a tit.

The issue to me is that it's "public transport". It transports the public. It's just a case of showing a bit of courtsey to fellow passengers.

I realise that trains get busy and it's not economical to send 6 carriages for every journey, so trains do get crowded. Normally I find miseryrail to be very good and they do issue me with refunds when their trains are cancelled.

I recognise that my bike can get in the way and really hurt someone if it falls so I try to be as considerate as I can with other passengers and try to keep it out of harms way. Should there be people sitting or using the cycle racks, who am I to tell them to move?

I was not abusive to the guard, so he shouldn't be asking me to leave the train. Miseryrail are providing a service to the public so they need to treat their customers with respect.

Isn't that a good reason to have guards on a train, so you can report to him you can't park your bike in the racks because people are sitting on them. Also who if there is no guard, checks that all luggage is stowed correctly and not in the doorways etc and a danger to other passengers. If there are plans to remove guards from the train, who is there to look after the welfare of passengers and if you like police the train.

Three quotes from Merseyrail

"You can take bicycles on all Merseyrail Northern and Wirral Line trains, if space is available. However, for passenger safety and comfort, there may be restrictions at busy times. Please co-operate with other customers and staff in these circumstances. Ride About leaflets are available from all Merseyrail stations or by calling the Merseyrail Customer Relations department on 0151 702 2071."

"All trains have designated areas for cyclists situated at both ends of the train. Merseyrail trains offer great opportunities outside peak hours to travel with bikes to a range of locations throughout the North West and beyond.

We advise that travelling during peak times may cause congestion issues on board the train, and that wherever possible you should avoid travelling with a bicycle during this time."

"Merseyrail is already a cycle friendly train operator; allowing the free carriage of bicycles on trains at any time of day. Each train also has four cycle spaces"

I don't have a problem with guards in general, but most guards won't say boo to a goose on Merseyrail (apart from the one I met yesterday). They'll wait until the enforcement officers arrive.

I'm all for them telling people to keep their feet off the seats, but most of the time they'll stay in the driver section at the back of the train. Ticket inspections other than in the earlier hours of the morning aren't that common.

Interesting quotes from Miseryrail and slightly contractictory too. How will one know if space is available until the train pulls into the station?

Neil you need a new bike.

Luck be have you can have mine for £400 lol.

It's lightening that bike (when it doesn't jump out of gear or rattle the teeth out your head). Perfect for leaving in work bike sheds when there are smack heads on the prowl.

True, if it's slipping then get yourself a new cassette and chain. Plus set the gears right and away you go.

I think it's about 15 years old that bike. My fave bike bit the dust when I got ran over on Storeton Road a few years ago.

I like taking it on the train because the exercise fits in well with my day.

Used to drive to work but I was in a car crash and it took me a month to fix my car, so started riding again and it wasn't bad. Chester rush hour traffic is a shit so the travel times can be similar between car and train/bike.

Plus you save Petrol and get fit so win win sutuation apart from helemet train people lol.

I've rode to Chester a couple of times from Prenton when they had rail replacement buses on. Takes me about an hour twenty to do the journey. Hooton to Chester is the worst bit as it's just void when you get near Capenhurst.

Some tech specs of the current trains:

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/New%20EMU%20Tech%20Data/EMU_508.html

The Westinghouse stock were vastly superior !!!!!

They were loaned by Westinghouse to Mersey railway to introduce electric traction because of the problems faced with steam in the tunnels.

The old Westinghouse stock never had compressors on board to operate the doors and brakes. They used to be charged at each end of the railway.

I liked the old 502/503 class. These units were in service between 1938 - 1985.

The Westinghouse stock had inward opening manual slam doors. Split barn type (for shunting). They were fitted with compressors for the brakes upon electrification of the Wirral Railway for the "long" runs out to WK & NB. Heaters were fitted at the same time. Prior to heaters being fitted, 3rd Class passengers had to stamp their feet to keep warm. First Class passengers were allowed to set fire to the 3rd Class passengers ! **

You are quite right Neil, prior to that, they had to be charged up with air on every trip at LC,BN and RF. I have the handbook that was given to all Mersey Railway Employees. Tells you how to "plug in" to the charging grids in the platforms - and a million and one other things too.

The 502's & 503's were solid, reliable units and gave good service. Sad to see them go. I've a couple of ex 1st class seats at home. Very comfy !

** A porkie !!

The 502/503 started to suffer after the loop was built in 1977 as they couldn't handle the gradients very well, particulary around Sandhills. The front doors were cut into the trains at this time. Many of the 502/503 were kept at Mollington sheds pending cutting.

I find it facinating that they actually cut headings into the wapping tunnel when the loop was being built. It's a shame nothing further has happened with this to reinstate passenger services on Canada dock branch.

Class 37's are my fave, saw one on Merseyrail a few months ago pulling an inspection saloon.

I'm sorry but you 2 should be segregated (sp) from this site.

Please tell me people don't do this.

You'll just love this Phil.

[youtube]6xSbmBhFnQk[/youtube]

Claw my eyes out they are horrible.

Sorry to be controversial but I travel every day in the typical rush hour. Merseyrail put a six car train on to West Kirby but only ever have a three car to New Brighton. Consequently most night we are crammed on like a cattle truck and it does my head in when people are on the trains with bikes when it is this busy. I remember when bikes couldn't go on the train in peak times I think this changed about 12 years ago. There should be a bike only section by the guards cab and then everyone would be happy.

Merseyrail know that cyclists are a source of revenue for them. If I couldn't take my bike on the train, I wouldn't use it as I don't live or work near enough to the stations to walk.

There needs to be appropiate capacity to deal with passengers if that be sending six cars or putting adequate cycle storage on the trains.

I'm sure the new bike parks at the station will benefit some, but not all. It's not the fault of the passenger or cyclist that the train is always too busy.

Check this. Two guards having a conversation next to my bike that was positioned by the doors like on monday. I even asked them if they could move so I could get the bike off the train. Never said a word to me about it being positioned where it was.

on the question of only 3 car trains on the New Brighton run, are the platforms of the stations between Birkenhead North and New Brighton long enougth to take more than a 3 car train?

At last a response!

Dear Mr C,

Thank you for your recent email.

Our Trains Manager is currently investigating this incident, and as soon as his investigations are completed, we will contact you again.

Yours sincerely,

Debbie Hunter
Customer Relatinos

I think I was at school with Debbie Hunter? Ask her for me Mr Neil C?

Every station on the merseyrail network is able to take 6 car trains mate.

They're not guards, they are part of the revenue protection team, i was a guard for years on merseyrail and always advised people to stow bikes exactly where you did. On that line they don't cause a problem being there as the only time those doors open would be at Chester and any bikes still at the doors would be getting off anyway.
I think the guard you ran into was being a bit over zealous to say the least. There are one or two believe me.

Too many train spotters on here . lol .

Your quotes saying that Merseyrail encourage bikes onboard at off peak times is correct, trains are very busy in the peaks and very often carry standing passengers particularly in the doorways, due to their not being enough carriages ... and although it is getting towards the quieter time 8.57 is still peak time, but most people going to Chester would have got an earlier train.

It does seem odd that a guard has challenged you about this position, it is not really the ideal place to store your bike, but what can you do, I would be less than happy if I was waiting to go and you were running up the platform looking for a place, I would say, just get on and get it parked !!

I await with interest your official reply.

Official response below:

Dear Mr C,

Thank you for your recent email.

I was most concerned to learn of the incident that occurred on the morning of July 5th, when you travelled between Rock Ferry and Chester.

We have stringent standards here on Merseyrail, with regards to the behaviour of our staff, and take complaints such as this extremely seriously.

Our Trains Manager has thoroughly investigated this incident, and extensively interviewed the guard concerned. He advises his Manager that as the safety of customers onboard the train are his responsibility, he always asks individuals with cycles to place in the designated spaces, to prevent accidents, should the bike fall for any reason.

It would appear, however, from reading your comments that the guard may have overreacted somewhat on this occasion, and for this reason, the Trains Manager has reminded him of his responsibilities to our customers, and of the consequences of behaving in an unfriendly or overzealous manner.

I hope that you will accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience and upset caused, and will be assured that appropriate action has been taken.

If you would be so good as to email me your address details, I will put some travel vouchers in the post for you today. I appreciate that these will not make up for what happened that day, but I hope that they will go some way towards restoring your faith in Merseyrail.

Thank you for taking the time to email, and for bringing this matter to our attention.

Yours sincerely,

Debbie Hunter
Assistant Customer Relations Manager

Thats it.

I'm going to complain to Merseyrail and get free tickets lol

Me too... I got the train to Liverpool last week for the first time in years. I reckoned the Merseyrail line would be full, late and I wouldn't have much time to collect my tickets in Lime Street.

Mersey rail were on time, Clean, empty. I got a seat too so I had to wait for an hour and a half at lime street that was sooo infuriating!

Coming back it took me 30 minutes to board a London tube train in rush hour...But Merseyrail was again deserted. Just won't do!

Anyhow, Good result...Just hope the guard doesn't clock you next time.

My response..

Dear Ms Hunter,

Many thanks for your email today. I am satisfied with your response and your kind offer to send me travel vouchers, my address is at the bottom of the email.

I think that Merseyrail has come a very long way in the last ten years and I am grateful for the fact that you allow me to transport my bike on your trains free of charge and provide somewhere to store it during the journey.

Your refurbished trains are very well designed to accommodate passengers with all manner of luggage, cycles and push chairs that they may bring on board. Merseyrail staff are usually very polite and the introduction of an increased presence of enforcement and revenue protection officers helps ensure that the environment on your trains is pleasant for fair paying passengers.

I only hope that you will be permitted to extend your network further onto the Borderlands and Canada dock lines.

Many thanks,


Neil

A satisfactory result Neil. Well done.

Cheers Pinz.

£30 worth of vouchers landed on the door mat this morn.

good stuff. it always pays to complain

Well, In most cases!!