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Posted By: Tony_1985 Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 6:25pm
A quick one for you to sink your teeth into

Back in November my brother got stopped for speeding on the A41 (50 in a 40), by a unmarked police vectra.

He has just recieved his court summons letter from Cheshire Police/Courts with his hearing date.


Here's the query:

On the charges page, the officer has stated that he was pulled over for speeding in a his car but with the police vehicle registration

BUT
On the officers statement, it states my brother's vehicle registration


As this is clearly a mistake, what can we do about it ?
Posted By: BMW Joe Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 6:31pm
What if the Police have quoted the incorrect details, eg vehicle registration number, colour, model/make of car etc?

If you have been stopped by the Police and subsequently receive a summons or evidence which contains such an error, the Police will be able to amend the documents at the Court hearing. You would only be able to successfully challenge such errors if you were able to show that you are genuinely prejudiced by such errors to the extent that you are unable to establish the nature of the allegation against you. The court will not throw out a case where you are familiar with the facts but there is either a typing error or the Police have quoted a non essential fact incorrectly. However, such inaccuracies may be used to throw doubt on the credibility of the officers in relation to other parts of their evidence if that is also disputed.


http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/court/summons.htm
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 6:47pm
So i guess he's buggered then

Here comes a ban
Posted By: Wench Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 7:05pm
It will only be a ban if he has points on his license already that with the further addition of points will take him over.

If you reach 12 penalty points within any 3 year period, the Court guidelines are to impose a disqualification of at least 6 months. Consequently, if you have 9 penalty points on your licence, and commit an offence for which a Fixed Penalty Notice would normally be appropriate, that Notice cannot be accepted as it would bring you to 12 penalty points.

The award of a ban is discretionary to the court, max points are 3-6, max fine is, I believe now £1000 on a normal road, it's much higher on motorways.

I'd say best to hold his hands up and accept the fine, unless Cheshire is one of the Forces that does the Speed Awareness Courses as an option instead, in that case, take the Course!
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 7:41pm
His history

3 pts for speeding (45 in 30) - traffic camera van
6 pts for no insurance

and now these 3-6 pts for speeding again

Just under 1 year driving


So honestly. I think that's it. 6 month ban
Posted By: Wench Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 7:56pm
hi say goodbye to your license hi

That would be why he didn't get the option of a Fixed Penalty Notice then.
if hes only been driving a year..he would surely fall under young driver scheme..and therefore should have already lost his licence..as you can only get 6 points in the first two years...
you then are "disqualified" for a set period (down to the court) before having to apply for your licence all over again/go for theory and harzard/practical test...and having to declare to insurance that you have already lost your licence.

If he hasnt lost his licence already..hes fkd now...simply
He was lucky he didn't loose it after 6 points under the New Drivers Act (1995).

@Beemertastic snap!
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 8:18pm
he was very lucky mate.
he needed his licence for his job, so he got his boss to write a letter to the courts

ended up with 6pts making a total of 9. And a slightly higher fine as a warning

kind of a next time, you're out approach

but he screwed that up now
Posted By: MGCraig Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 8:43pm
Should tell him to slow down then. Dunno how Id survive if I didnt have a licence frown
Posted By: BMW Joe Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 8:49pm
Just as you did for the past 17 years before driving?
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 8:53pm
very true joe

and we have told him to slow down, he apparently knows best


and i didnt ask for snarly little comments like that. i was asking for advice on it
Posted By: Wench Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 8:54pm
You'd have to use Peasant Wagons or Shanks' Pony like what I do raftl
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 9th Jan 2009 9:00pm
lol

he might have to
Posted By: MGCraig Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 12:01am
Originally Posted by BMW Joe
Just as you did for the past 17 years before driving?

All I could think about in those 17 years (well, 12 years) was driving.



Originally Posted by Tony_1985
very true joe

and we have told him to slow down, he apparently knows best


and i didnt ask for snarly little comments like that. i was asking for advice on it


Whoa Whoa, wasnt a snarly comment. Thats my advice. I have no time for speeders, seeing as one of my family were knocked down by one a few years ago. Tell him to get his act together. He's got a while to think about it IF he gets the ban. If hes lucky, hell get that speed course thing, but I dont think they do that round here do they??
Posted By: dave_g Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 12:10am
everyone speeds now an then!remember my mate had 18 points but kept his licencse cos of his job(got banned a month later!)as far as i know the speed awareness course is north wales only!
Posted By: dave_g Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 12:14am
always ask for a calibration certificate for anything used to gather evidence against you,its your right to have that info!
Posted By: MGCraig Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 12:34am
18 Points !!! What job did he have???

Arent all Police cars meant to have had a test performed on them at the start of the day. If you ask them, and they cant provide evidence that this has taken place, youre off the hook ?
Posted By: dave_g Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 12:44am
he was a valeter!any speed gun etc must have a valid calibration cert other wise its basically useless!do not go out and speed or drink drive and think "i can get away with this"you wont and it aint worth it!
Posted By: Beemertastic Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 11:24am
Originally Posted by dave_g
always ask for a calibration certificate for anything used to gather evidence against you,its your right to have that info!

no such thing as a calibration certificate.....its already on the laser..and if they arent in date..ie within the 12 months the gun just shuts down...and has to be sent back to the factory for recalibration.
Sorry to disapoint.
And a further legal point...we DONT have disclose everything....rules of disclosure under PACE are long and complicated...

And the vehicle DOESNT have to be calibrated that day...nor does the laser..although basic checks must be performed that day to satisfy the officer that the laser device is working correctly.

All merseyside police cars have calibrated speedos fitted as standard...however area cars are very rarely if ever checked against a laser...unlike traffic vehicles which get done weekly...

If you get done by traffic-the job will ususally have been done properly.
Area dont have the time nor the training or expertise to normally do traffic type jobs properly...they really do have better things to do!
Posted By: Wench Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 11:41am
There is actually a review of the rules around Disclosure, especially Third Party Disclosure at the moment, lead by the Office of Criminal Justice Reform and in conjunction with the PACE Review Board. No idea how long it's going to take though.
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 2:03pm
I know that 10mph over is points and a fine anyway

but what's the chances of this unmarked vectra having a calibrated speedo

the car patrols that area of the A41 every day with 2 uniformed officers on board. constantly stopping vehicles
Posted By: Wench Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 2:15pm
All Merseyside Police cars have calibrated speedos fitted as standard as Beemertastic said, so I'm guessing it's the same for Cheshire and all other Forces. If they're not laser ones, then I think (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) they must all have a visible sticker on them saying when they were last calibrated.

Chances are therefore very slim.
Posted By: hoseman Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 2:53pm
Had the same thing happen to me when last pulled in the tunnel......Long time ago..... Need my license too!
The police put down the wrong reg and make, but when i pointed it out to my solicitor, to see if i can get off, she said the same that it can be ammended in the court and just hold my hands up to it, 3 points and a fine!!
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 3:10pm
cheers matey
Posted By: BMW Joe Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 10th Jan 2009 9:23pm
Originally Posted by dave_g
as far as i know the speed awareness course is north wales only!

Not just North Wales, Merseyside police offer driver awareness courses.

http://www.drivingservices.com/home.htm

Interestingly, it is a private limited company, run for profit
Originally Posted by BMW Joe
Originally Posted by dave_g
as far as i know the speed awareness course is north wales only!

Not just North Wales, Merseyside police offer driver awareness courses.

http://www.drivingservices.com/home.htm

Interestingly, it is a private limited company, run for profit


Its only for contravening red ATS...not for speed....hence NOT a speed awareness course.
Posted By: suey30 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 7th Feb 2009 1:05am
i was on the recieving end of somebody speeding and no insurence,i was slowing down to turn into my road,when a car hit me from behind,i had my 2 daughters in the car one being 8 months pregnant.it was only the fact that i kept control of the car that we didnt end up inside a shop i stopped right by the wall. my daughter ended up having an emergency ceaserean nearly loosing her life and the babies. we then had to wait a year to see if the baby was brain damaged.he was driving at 70 when he hit us,he wasnt even looking where he was going he was checking where his next job was.he told us he had borrowed the car without his friend knowing,he had lost his licence and had no insurence.so excuse me if i dont feel sorry for him hes done it 3 times in a year he hasnt learnt anything, i wouldnt give him another chance he might kill someone next time,
Posted By: _Ste_ Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 7th Feb 2009 1:21am
frown
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 7th Feb 2009 5:00am
erm..... ok

this was done on a main A road that used to a 70mph stretch, so how does it compare to what you have gone through ??
Posted By: suey30 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 7th Feb 2009 5:29pm
it was on a 30 mph rd he was fined £250. and 1 year ban because he pleaded guilty.
Posted By: Mark Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 7th Feb 2009 6:47pm
Tony Speeding Kills -

You have to accept the fact that people will have an opinion
and even more so if someone has been hurt.

Originally Posted by suey30
i was on the recieving end of somebody speeding and no insurence,i was slowing down to turn into my road,when a car hit me from behind,i had my 2 daughters in the car one being 8 months pregnant.it was only the fact that i kept control of the car that we didnt end up inside a shop i stopped right by the wall. my daughter ended up having an emergency ceaserean nearly loosing her life and the babies. we then had to wait a year to see if the baby was brain damaged.he was driving at 70 when he hit us,he wasnt even looking where he was going he was checking where his next job was.he told us he had borrowed the car without his friend knowing,he had lost his licence and had no insurence.so excuse me if i dont feel sorry for him hes done it 3 times in a year he hasnt learnt anything, i wouldnt give him another chance he might kill someone next time,
Originally Posted by Tony_1985
erm..... ok

this was done on a main A road that used to a 70mph stretch, so how does it compare to what you have gone through ??


I personally dont think that Sue is just Ranting, she has actually
shared an experienced that could have devastated her life
just because of someone speeding.

Your brother 10mph or Not its still speeding and if the speed
limit has changed then its been done for a reason you must agree.

Originally Posted by Tony_1985
A quick one for you to sink your teeth into

Back in November my brother got stopped for speeding on the A41 (50 in a 40), by a unmarked police vectra.

He has just recieved his court summons letter from Cheshire Police/Courts with his hearing date.


Here's the query:

On the charges page, the officer has stated that he was pulled over for speeding in a his car but with the police vehicle registration

BUT
On the officers statement, it states my brother's vehicle registration


As this is clearly a mistake, what can we do about it ?


Yes your topic is about incorrect details.
Unfortunately feelings can / will run high where Speeding is involved.
We do have Adverts saying "Speeding Kills". for a reason.

Sorry mate.
Posted By: Sanchez Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 7th Feb 2009 7:16pm
all i can say is nice to see beemertastic giving some advice on the materr, smile
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 7th Feb 2009 7:22pm
Thats completely understandable mate, and yes he shouldn't have been driving above the speed limit.

And yes, i do know why that particular section had its speed limit reduced, partly due to the accidents involving cars turning in to the Autolift Recovery yard.


Just because of an accident involving a speeding driver, you shouldn't target just 1 individual.
If you go down the rock at any time of the weekend, how many people speed in and out of there?
Yet the police do nothing down there to deter/stop this.

Yes people driving like idiots, especially at speed, are likely to cause more accidents. Not 1 person on these boards can say that they haven't broken the speed limit at least once.
Posted By: suey30 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 8th Feb 2009 9:09pm
hi sorry if you thought i was ranting,i thought i was telling you about my experience regarding a speeding driver.
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 8th Feb 2009 9:16pm
like Mark said, you were sharing an experience with us

i do appreciate this, but was just shocked by the wording of your 1st post

never mind eh


Now then.... jump in the Newbies area and introduce yourself thumbsup
Stick round, and see whats happening on the boards.
Even come down to an AutoWirral meet if you get chance when we organise the next one.
Its always nice to put a face to a name. You are more than welcome
Posted By: suey30 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 8th Feb 2009 10:12pm
thanks will do
Posted By: StuyMac Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 8th Feb 2009 11:01pm
offtopic

handbag
Posted By: Tony_1985 Re: Notice of Prosecution - Incorrect Details - 8th Feb 2009 11:01pm
trust you Stuy
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