WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Statistics
Posts1,011,525
Topics74,712
Members12,818
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs38
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
60 registered members (baldybrewer, 13 invisible), 1,043 guests, and330 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
161 Phones
New General Forums
Looking for Gamers and New Members
by WargamerNik. 11th Dec 2018 10:21am
This Day in 2001
by granny. 29th Nov 2018 11:56am
HAPPY BIRTHDAY LOCOMOTIVE
by snowhite. 24th Nov 2018 2:36pm
Lost my identity
by dingle. 23rd Nov 2018 9:18pm
New Wirral History
Bromborough - Marfords Estate
by billy_anorak59. 10th Dec 2018 12:35pm
762 Whitt's End Wine & Cocktail Bar 43 Market Stre
by derekdwc. 29th Nov 2018 11:15pm
758 Withens Lane Sports & Social Club
by derekdwc. 29th Nov 2018 11:11pm
760 'D' COMPANY, 21st BATTALION CHESHIRE HOME GUAR
by derekdwc. 29th Nov 2018 11:06pm
759 Lazy Landlord Ale House 56 Mill Lane Liscard
by derekdwc. 29th Nov 2018 11:04pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
WW1 Monument, Birkenhead
No more bridge, never be the same
Topic Replies
Bromborough - Marfords Estate
by billy_anorak59. 11th Dec 2018 1:16pm
Birkenhead riots
by dingle. 11th Dec 2018 11:17am
Looking for Gamers and New Members
by WargamerNik. 11th Dec 2018 10:32am
Panasonic HC VX870 4K camcorder
by gerrymoore. 11th Dec 2018 8:36am
Phones
by venice. 10th Dec 2018 11:11pm
Ipad Mini 4 128gb
by Catsick. 10th Dec 2018 8:07pm
Black Leather massage recliner chair
by alicia1. 10th Dec 2018 9:38am
Lost Jack Russell
by venice. 9th Dec 2018 10:27pm
BIRDS HOUSE
by granny. 9th Dec 2018 5:31pm
December
M T W T F S S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Christmas
by granny. 5th Dec 2018 11:45am
Shen Yun at Empire Theatre
by granny. 19th Nov 2018 11:47am
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Do we need Trident? #998660
20th Jan 2016 1:11pm
20th Jan 2016 1:11pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,060
Birkenhead
derekdwc Online content OP
Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,060
Birkenhead
I don't know if it the only nuclear deterrent we have or if we have any land based one.
I think with the advances made with satellite surveillance drones,radar and computer hacking, that by the time Trident is built it would be too vulnerable to a first strike against it.
click

Fact is, the Navy has been seeking—pretty much under the surface—a way to do underwater what the Air Force has been doing in the sky: prowl stealthily for long periods of time, and gather the kind of data that could turn the tide in war.

The Navy’s goal is to send an underwater drone, which it calls a “glider,” on a roller-coaster-like path for up to five years. A fleet of them could swarm an enemy coastline, helping the Navy hunt down minefields and target enemy submarines.

Last edited by derekdwc; 20th Jan 2016 1:15pm.
Google Ads
Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: derekdwc] #998661
20th Jan 2016 1:28pm
20th Jan 2016 1:28pm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,029
Oxton
Gibbo Online content
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Online Content
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,029
Oxton
Its a very tricky question to answer. Whenever it comes up I'm always reminded how timeless "Yes Minister" was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX_d_vMKswE

Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: derekdwc] #998664
20th Jan 2016 2:39pm
20th Jan 2016 2:39pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,161
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,161
Birkenhead
There is no scenario where "pressing the button" gains us any advantage whatsoever. We know that and any potential threat knows that as well so the "deterrent" is nothing more than status symbol.

Or ..... if we really want we could choose to potentially wipe out the human race and many other creatures as well.

Its all pretty mute anyway, we do not own any means to launch a nuclear warhead.

The UK doesn't even own a nuclear threat/attack detection system.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: derekdwc] #998680
20th Jan 2016 6:24pm
20th Jan 2016 6:24pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,906
Wallasey/New Brighton
J
j_demo Offline
Forum Addict
j_demo  Offline
Forum Addict
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,906
Wallasey/New Brighton
do we need a nuclear missile system/deterrent? i think so

does that have to be trident? not necessarily, but what better options are there?

Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: diggingdeeper] #998736
21st Jan 2016 12:07am
21st Jan 2016 12:07am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,861
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,861
Wirral
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


Its all pretty mute anyway, we do not own any means to launch a nuclear warhead.

The UK doesn't even own a nuclear threat/attack detection system.


I thought the submarines carried the ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads, and launched from the submarines,not from land. So they could be launched anywhere in the world as we don't know where these submarines get to. Which would mean there would not have to be a threat to UK for them to be used. On a greater scale it could see off North Korea !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: derekdwc] #998737
21st Jan 2016 1:08am
21st Jan 2016 1:08am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,161
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,161
Birkenhead
You are correct @granny, the only nuclear weapons we have are Trident which are launched from submarines.

We own the submarines, we own the nuclear warheads but we do not own any launch missiles (Trident II D-5's).

We do not own the monitoring systems that indicate a nuclear attack against us.

Mentioning North Korea .... going from information that is starting to come to light, in the next few months there could be a complete re-think on North Korea. The USA may have done a little bit of deception to the rest of the world - its going to be interesting to see what stunt the USA will do to avoid a complete expose.

Think along the same lines as Cuba but worse - in reality during at least the last 25 years what threat was Cuba to the rest of the world or even the USA but how was Cuba portrayed? The USA has had Guantanamo Bay continuously since 1898 which shows how little threat Cuba has been.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: diggingdeeper] #998738
21st Jan 2016 1:42am
21st Jan 2016 1:42am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,861
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,861
Wirral
Don't really know much about Cuba. Used to listen to the news and wonder if my father was about to have a heart attack every time it came on. The reporting was pretty serious but I took little notice, being more interested in other things.
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died did any changes really take place. Khrushchev was at the helm and I suppose it would be the same if US tried to place nuclear defence in Ukraine. Just assuming ,don't really know.

With regard to not owning any launch missiles, or the monitoring system, surely that is a means of security ? Meaning that when Mr Corbyn has a temper tantrum he cant say 'stuff the lot of you and goodbye' by pressing the button. laugh


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: derekdwc] #998741
21st Jan 2016 9:51am
21st Jan 2016 9:51am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,589
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,589
wirral
I don't think a submarine is a very good way to deliver nuclear weapons. We should learn from the IRA's delivery system - Ford cortinas - which were used as a form of cruise missiles. Despite the Army's best efforts, these proved impossible to prevent, and devastated the centre of Belfast.

In the case of a nuclear equipped enemy, one can never be sure that they have not smuggled a nuke into your capital city well before the outbreak of hostilities. Modern ones are extremely compact and not particularly radioactive until detonated.

Not only is this approach likely to be more effective, it is also a lot cheaper.

Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: derekdwc] #998746
21st Jan 2016 12:01pm
21st Jan 2016 12:01pm
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,424
Birkenhead
BandyCoot Offline

Forum Veteran
BandyCoot  Offline

Forum Veteran
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,424
Birkenhead
I'm best off saying nothing.


Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: granny] #998750
21st Jan 2016 1:27pm
21st Jan 2016 1:27pm
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Oxton
O
OxtonHill Offline
Old Hand
OxtonHill  Offline
Old Hand
O
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Oxton
Originally Posted by granny
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died


He is not dead, last time I looked skull

Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: OxtonHill] #998756
21st Jan 2016 2:44pm
21st Jan 2016 2:44pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,861
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,861
Wirral
Originally Posted by OxtonHill
Originally Posted by granny
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died


He is not dead, last time I looked skull


You are correct.Sorry, I thought he'd gone to greener pastures.
Taken last August on his birthday, but it looks as if it's time he was.

[Linked Image]



Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: granny] #998758
21st Jan 2016 2:58pm
21st Jan 2016 2:58pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,311
Wirral
Moonstar Online content

Forum Addict
Moonstar  Online Content

Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,311
Wirral
I guess that if people start actually loosing off nuclear weapons at any time it wouldn't be a good place to live in the aftermath.

Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: Moonstar] #998759
21st Jan 2016 3:33pm
21st Jan 2016 3:33pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,589
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,589
wirral
Originally Posted by Moonstar
I guess that if people start actually loosing off nuclear weapons at any time it wouldn't be a good place to live in the aftermath.


No, indeed it wouldn't. It would certainly burst the property bubble if one went off in London!

Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: derekdwc] #998764
21st Jan 2016 5:07pm
21st Jan 2016 5:07pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,861
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,861
Wirral
If Russia declared war against the UK tomorrow, do you think we should still continue the moves to scrap Trident ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Do we need Trident? [Re: granny] #998773
21st Jan 2016 6:10pm
21st Jan 2016 6:10pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,161
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,161
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by granny
If Russia declared war against the UK tomorrow, do you think we should still continue the moves to scrap Trident ?


Five scenarios come out of that:-

Russia presses the button first - UK gets obliterated, what would be the point of UK Trident's launching 12 hours later (or more) to wipe out a grand total of 2% of Russia.

Russia presses the button first and other countries join in with nuclear missiles flying everywhere - UK gets obliterated as does much of the rest of the world, what would be the point of UK Trident's launching 12 hours later (or more) to wipe out a grand total of 2% of Russia.

UK press the button first - Russia gets 2% wiped out, UK gets obliterated within 24 hours.

No nukes involved, Russia wipes out UK with conventional weapons at a cost of less than 1% of Russia.

No nukes involved, Russia wipes out UK with conventional weapons, rest of the world joins in and ends up with nuclear wipe-out of much of the world.

You can try and find a positive scenario but Trident doesn't help us one little bit.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Looking for Gamers and New Members
by WargamerNik. 11th Dec 2018 10:21am
Bromborough - Marfords Estate
by billy_anorak59. 10th Dec 2018 12:35pm
Phones
by venice. 9th Dec 2018 11:39pm
Lost Jack Russell
by venice. 7th Dec 2018 3:07pm
Mobile phone probs
by cools. 6th Dec 2018 5:58pm
For Sale & Free
Panasonic HC VX870 4K camcorder
by gerrymoore. 11th Dec 2018 8:36am
Sea fishing shelter
by paul110180. 9th Dec 2018 10:13am
Pool table etc 25x 55" approx
by Snodvan. 7th Dec 2018 7:13pm
Hotpoint slimline dishwasher free
by silvertigra. 6th Dec 2018 12:33pm
Black Leather massage recliner chair
by alicia1. 4th Dec 2018 1:40pm
Member Spotlight
Snodvan
Snodvan
Wallasey Village
Posts: 1,351
Joined: March 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Paowie1, LairdArrowe, SEdwards, Bill1, Binny
12818 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Christmas
by granny. 4th Dec 2018 3:24pm
Bollards
by fish5133. 2nd Dec 2018 11:10pm
Contacting an old school friend?
by gerrymoore. 1st Dec 2018 11:29am
What? Did I really hear this??
by venice. 28th Nov 2018 11:03pm
hairdresser
by lincle. 27th Nov 2018 6:51pm
News : New Topics
Mobile phone probs
by cools. 6th Dec 2018 5:58pm
Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal
by granny. 5th Dec 2018 11:57am
Submarine Assoc Diary lost
by BandyCoot. 3rd Dec 2018 4:35pm
Monks Ferry Slipway - Closed
by Jeremy. 3rd Dec 2018 12:46pm
Doorstep Hawkers
by granny. 1st Dec 2018 5:15pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Phones
by venice. 9th Dec 2018 11:39pm
Lost Jack Russell
by venice. 7th Dec 2018 3:07pm
Budgie Found
by flybynight. 1st Dec 2018 4:33pm
CAT
by lincle. 29th Nov 2018 11:00pm
Sky TV
by Peter0787. 29th Nov 2018 9:21pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Tue 8:18am
Sunset Tue 3:52pm
Local Time Tue 4:54pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1