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#992930 - 26th Nov 2015 12:11pm The Case for Bombing Syria
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14435
Loc: Wirral
At this point in time, the debate for bombing Syria is happening in the House of Commons.

It' a hard one ..... So many issues to influence a decision and at the end of the day it has to be the right decision.

Personally I can't justify bombing anywhere but this unfortunately is a very different situation and which ever way we look at it now , a world threat either if we do or if we don't.

Should we or shouldn't we ?





Edited by Mark (30th Nov 2015 4:51pm)
Edit Reason: Renamed
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#992932 - 26th Nov 2015 12:30pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
palemoon Online   content
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Registered: 27th Feb 2015
Posts: 196
Loc: wirral
Cameron loves doing his macho thing. Curling his upper lip and leaning on his elbow, trying to look tough. He can put as many planes over Syria as he likes but it wont stop the terrorist with the parcel in the middle of Manchester. Can you imagine the chaos in the air with bombers from France, America, Russia, Syria and then the UK? What a recipe for disaster.


Edited by palemoon (26th Nov 2015 12:31pm)

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#992942 - 26th Nov 2015 1:30pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
derekdwc Online   content


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Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 5015
Loc: Birkenhead
I think we are ignorant of a lot of facts.
Are the bombings aimed at Isis occupied cities where there are innocent civilians where bombs can't tell the difference or against military convoys and if there is a frontline (no civilians involved)
I would personally support bombing of the latter but where it would be civilians (I mean folks who just want to live ordinary everyday lives) I think this could create more support for Isis.I think boots on the ground by the various anti Isis groups will be needed sooner than later.
How does it help the fight against Isis if Russia keeps bombing those fighting against Isis but are against Assad and Iraq gov are bombing the Kurds fighting Isis

Is there any part of Syria where the UN could set up a war free zone and patrol it with UN troops from UN countries and I'm sure a lot of European countries (and charities) would contribute towards food and other essentials allowing refugees to be re-homed in a safe environment

I do think a lot of politicians the world over just think of number one and unless they are personally threatened by loss of power will just talk on and on instead of actually doing the right thing as quick as possible.

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#992946 - 26th Nov 2015 2:19pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2748
Loc: Wirral
Dont know, but it feels wrong and hopeless. Id rather see our country spend 'bomb' money here ,on having copious numbers of undercover agents working at infiltrating cells of extremists ,mingling with all kinds of gatherings ( yes right down to mum and toddler groups) - immediately putting suspects under surveillance , deporting anyone who's a danger to us that weve reasonable proof against, immediately deporting those who rant their poison in the streets, so yes temporary loss of free speech) , instantly bring in security cards , with eye pattern recognition , all shops and garages ,ticket offices , hospitals,dentists, etc would have a reader ,no card no service, so that no-one can do hardly anything without identifying themselves . No doubt the same folk who dont want us to bomb Syria , would also resent their own freedoms being restricted so severely , but you cant do nothing - because so far, ISIL is winning. No action may well end up with us permanently having no freedom at all. Oh and youd have to renew your ID card regularly to help thwart forgers. Im sure my ideas arent that workable, but I like them better than the thought of bombed broken bodies all over the place. Still, if we dont want j'hardis spreading across the globe as they did in the tenth century , difficult measures have to embarked upon , and bombing may be one of them.

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#992948 - 26th Nov 2015 2:51pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
casper Online   content
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1349
Loc: wallasey
I get the feeling on here up to now is leaning toward no, and some very good and reasoned responses have been put forward, along the lines that it increases the likely hood of a blue on blue incident involving aircraft from different nations, bombs are indiscriminate and their use is limited to and against static targets and that the main reason we are joining in is to show solidarity with France, my own feeling is it will make very little difference if we join in apart from the propaganda value, ie; we will being seen to be doing something, I think along the lines already put forward that there needs to be a joint plan and policy put forward and agreed by all parties, and undertakings given for Syria to be given a democratic government, bombing alone is not enough.

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#992954 - 26th Nov 2015 3:41pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
Why on earth should we bomb Syria?

Did we ever bomb Northern Ireland - no.

Will you wipe out ISIS - no.

Will we convince even more Muslims (and others) that we are trying to obliterate the whole of the middle-east - yes.

What gives us the right to attack countries that we are not at war with? Why are we so hell bent on creating instability?
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#992974 - 26th Nov 2015 5:23pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14435
Loc: Wirral
...and how many years did Northern Ireland continue for ?

We also have to think of the millions that are suffering at the hands of ISIS. The Syrians who are being terrorised and tortured, sexually abused and beheaded.

We still decry Germany for much the same atrocities committed in WWII, is this different ?

Surely the innocents in Syria needing help, should be a major concern to us ?

My concern is Turkey and Russia. Which side of the fence would we be on if they fall out, and could things escalate.

One thing for sure, 'doing nothing' is not an option, otherwise the atrocities will continue, here ,there and everywhere.




Edited by granny (26th Nov 2015 5:26pm)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#992993 - 26th Nov 2015 6:57pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
The same number of years that this mess is going to last for.

If we hadn't have interfered with these countries they would be having very limited civil unrest - we have escalated it into a multi-national disgrace.

The situation between Turkey and Russia just shows how much instability has been created. One air plane down, two people dead and there is a possibility of all out war.

We haven't even got a proposed outcome for what we want in Syria - how can you justify bombing a place when you haven't got a plan? Its like primary school mentality.

Russia at least has a plan - America, UK and France haven't.

If Turkey and Russia have a war, we should not take sides - but of course we will as it has been moved to the North Atlantic apparently.

What is going to happen next is that Turkey will become part of the EU even though they do not meet the entry criteria - it will be part of some deal.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#992997 - 26th Nov 2015 7:06pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
casper Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1349
Loc: wallasey
There is no doubt that we would side with Turkey granny, Ivan is smarting at losing an aircraft and two members of its armed forces, this in turn causes Putin to lose face as the hard man, they will be looking for some pay back as our American allies would say, if we stand back and look closely the plan is coming together for ISIS, it could result in WW3 it is that serious, Russia has been testing reactions around the world with aircraft and submarine incursions, and I have no doubt that they have been overflying Turkey to what end who knows? this game has been going on for years, I think it might have been wiser to escort the Russian out of its airspace but then we don't know the full circumstances.

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#992999 - 26th Nov 2015 7:41pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
fish5133 Online   content
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Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 2998
Loc: Heswallish
If assad wants us to help then maybe.... But what a horrible melting pot. Time to look for a reserved occupation.

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#993009 - 26th Nov 2015 8:36pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
Don't you fancy the Home Guard? wink
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#993013 - 26th Nov 2015 8:43pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Psssst..... Wanna buy some petrol coupons and Ration Books? wink

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#993023 - 26th Nov 2015 9:12pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
eddtheduck Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 21st Feb 2011
Posts: 1385
Loc: happy place
no we should all put flowers in our hair and dance like hippies and act like everything is fine cos remember they're all nice people, then we should give money to help for heroes wink
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Not on here no more

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#993030 - 26th Nov 2015 11:25pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14435
Loc: Wirral
If I remember correctly, Israel was the power behind the thrown when it came to pushing America and Britain into Attacking Iraq. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It comes to light that Israel had secret meetings with Russia in October about attacks in Syria. Considering Israel had not ever had much time for Russia, we have to wonder, yet again, who is pulling the strings.
If this is true, then I believe we should stay out of it. I'm tired of Israel being at the pivotal centre point, they still continue to take land etc. This week there are plans to displace thousands of Palestinian Bedhouins to build several new Jewish only communities.
Palestine will retaliate , of course, but why doesn't any country step up and speak up for the minorities when Israel is concerned. No one EVER does and we need to know why they don't.

October 9th 2015

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking...ria/2015/10/09/
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#993070 - 27th Nov 2015 3:49pm Re: The Case for Bombing Syria [Re: granny]
Excoriator Online   content
Guardian

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 906
Loc: wirral
Albert Einstein observed: "You can't bring about peace by waging war." and he was right. He usually was.

Nor will our bombs (a few hundred out of 30,000 already from various sources) make a lot of difference. What it WILL do is cause more terrorism here, giving this government a good excuse to monitor all our communications.

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