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#986735 - 13th Oct 2015 2:05pm Government Defending Criminals Again
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10809
Loc: Birkenhead
Cameron is interfering with the decision of Saudi Arabia to flog Karl Andree. These actions irritate me, people flaunt rules abroad despite knowing what the punishments are and yet we have the cheek to defend them.

I would hope that the decision to cancel the prison contract is nothing to do with this case, that would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

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#986746 - 13th Oct 2015 5:20pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 3006
Loc: Wirral
At his age, can we be sure the bloke isnt a bit simple or age related confused ?

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#986748 - 13th Oct 2015 5:35pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10809
Loc: Birkenhead
Its nothing to do with us, its whatever the law of the land is, we should not be undermining the authority of another country by defending an individual who has brought our own country into disrepute.

I have no problem with our government challenging another country's policies but we shouldn't meddle with individual cases unless we are convinced that the person is innocent.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#986786 - 13th Oct 2015 9:29pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15021
Loc: Wirral
He has worked and lived out there for years, I just can't believe how stupid a mature adult can be. I dare say he's been ferrying it around for a long time.

I do think we have to intervene as a nation against certain punishments that we consider to be barbaric. If we don't, then there is no reason why we should not reintroduce capital punishment again in this country. We are either in agreement with capital punishment or not.
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#986788 - 13th Oct 2015 9:42pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10809
Loc: Birkenhead
This is corporal punishment not capital punishment. The way it is done in Saudi doesn't generally break the skin, it does cause severe bruising. The full count isn't carried out at one time, its batched. It is extremely painful but doesn't usually leave permanent physical damage.

We see incidents that cause more damage frequently on our streets but we don't see any international reaction to them?
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#986794 - 13th Oct 2015 10:20pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 3006
Loc: Wirral


Quote DD "I have no problem with our government challenging another country's policies but we shouldn't meddle with individual cases unless we are convinced that the person is innocent."

Surely innocent OR disadvantaged mentally as I mentioned earlier? If hes definitely got all his marbles, then I wouldnt argue with you , no, we shouldnt interfere, but if there could be any indication that he's got mental health problems that arent being acknowledged by a foreign regime, then I think we should interfere. I suppose relatives or friends would have put that scenartio forward though by now , wouldnt they, if that was the case --

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#986798 - 13th Oct 2015 11:14pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10809
Loc: Birkenhead
If he is with it enough to drive then I'd accept that as mentally competent. He is employed and working in Saudi.

He's been in Saudi 25 years, he knows exactly what the score is.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#986800 - 13th Oct 2015 11:37pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
I agree; he was aware of the consequences if he were caught.
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#986804 - 14th Oct 2015 9:01am Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
snowhite Offline

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Registered: 31st Jan 2014
Posts: 6463
Loc: Wirral
I don t think David Cameron should get involved with this.
Karl Andree must have known Saudi Law before he even thought about drinking the alcohol.

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#986823 - 14th Oct 2015 11:50am Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
Vanmanone Offline

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Registered: 5th May 2010
Posts: 3437
Loc: The Rectory Eastham
To be fair,I think they should knock off fifty lashes for good behavior .. he`s done twelve months and without a drink.


Edited by Vanmanone (14th Oct 2015 11:50am)

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#986824 - 14th Oct 2015 11:59am Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15021
Loc: Wirral
Have to ask why Saudi Arabia is head of the UN Human Rights Council. All they do is beheadings, crucifixions, lashings and apparently , beheaded more people last year than IS.
So why would any humanitarian country want to make a deal with them over prison services ? Saudi seem to have their own agenda on things anyway.

He may have committed the crime and even knew what the punishment would be. The crime was wrong but so is the punishment. He has served 14 months behind bars of a 12 month sentence. Is that not enough ?

Hope none of you start defending the actions of IS, simply because it's a cultural issue!!


Edited by granny (14th Oct 2015 12:03pm)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#986826 - 14th Oct 2015 12:06pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: granny]
Dilly Online   Reading

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 17th Jul 2011
Posts: 8270
Loc: wallasey
Originally Posted By: granny
Have to ask why Saudi Arabia is head of the UN Human Rights Council. All they do is beheadings, crucifixions, lashings and apparently , beheaded more people last year than IS.
So why would any humanitarian country want to make a deal with them over prison services ? Saudi seem to have their own agenda on things anyway.

He may have committed the crime and even knew what the punishment would be. The crime was wrong but so is the punishment. He has served 14 months behind bars of a 12 month sentence. Is that not enough ?

Hope none of you start defending the actions of IS, simply because it's a cultural issue!!

well said Granny ! I can't see why anyone would condone this punishment.

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#986828 - 14th Oct 2015 12:15pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
Vanmanone Offline

Forum Guardian

Registered: 5th May 2010
Posts: 3437
Loc: The Rectory Eastham
I was only joking BTW .. but yeah let out,when they come over here they get upto all sorts,drinking,gambling Casino`s,and when they get into trouble they hide behind there diplomatic immunity card.

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#986846 - 14th Oct 2015 2:38pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: Vanmanone]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15021
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: Vanmanone
I was only joking BTW .. but yeah let out,when they come over here they get upto all sorts,drinking,gambling Casino`s,and when they get into trouble they hide behind there diplomatic immunity card.


Yes, I know you were Van.

There's also a lot of drinking goes on behind closed doors in that part of the world too, in certain communities.


Edited by granny (14th Oct 2015 2:39pm)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#986877 - 14th Oct 2015 7:26pm Re: Government Defending Criminals Again [Re: diggingdeeper]
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 3273
Loc: Heswallish
Think Cameron wants to have a go just to try and look big after shying away from Putin.

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