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#958905 - 22nd Aug 2015 3:55pm Terrorist attack on French train. *****
ludwigvan Offline
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Registered: 6th Jan 2010
Posts: 1129
Loc: Middle Earth
American and British passengers run toward the gunman and overpower him, French rail staff run away from the gunman and lock themselves in a private cabin leaving the passengers to fend for themselves , nuff said . Total respect and gratitude to the heroes, utter condemnation for the cheese eating surrender monkeys.

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#958907 - 22nd Aug 2015 4:21pm Re: Terrorist attack on French train. [Re: ludwigvan]
j_demo Offline
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Registered: 4th Nov 2011
Posts: 1880
Loc: Wallasey/New Brighton
*attempted terrorist attack on french train.

Also, typical frenchies running away and hiding.

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#958951 - 22nd Aug 2015 6:29pm Re: Terrorist attack on French train. [Re: ludwigvan]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10268
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I'm not a great lover of France but I do feel those generalisations are a bit too much of a discredit. The French resistance during WW2 was exemplary in terms of size, bravery, achievement and strategy.

Although the French get a lot of blame for falling at the Battle of France, nobody else could have done better with the massive German Panzer attack and ground conditions. The resistance more than made up for the loss of face.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#959007 - 23rd Aug 2015 9:31am Re: Terrorist attack on French train. [Re: diggingdeeper]
casper Offline
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Registered: 13th May 2012
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The resistance was actually a shambles, there were without doubt some good organised groups which you would expect,but the majority weren't well organised and mostly acted out of self benefit or had to be paid to carry out requested tasks, there was in fighting between the different factions for supremacy and betrayals to the Germans to gain that supremacy, there were also many betrayals of our own agents, half of France was in bed with the Germans, so lets say not a very solid resistance, the French navy refused to surrender its ships and join us although they had a rethink when the allied victory was certain, lets say I wouldn't want them watching my back.

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#959008 - 23rd Aug 2015 9:48am Re: Terrorist attack on French train. [Re: ludwigvan]
cools Offline
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Registered: 16th Aug 2013
Posts: 1812
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Thank god those brave men were on that train because without them doing what they did the death toll would have been horrendous I think. I always wonder what I would do faced with that situation , freeze like a lot of people I soppose, but would like to think I'd have ago at doing something because as that guy said do nothing were dead anyway.

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#959037 - 23rd Aug 2015 12:19pm Re: Terrorist attack on French train. [Re: cools]
casper Offline
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1348
Loc: wallasey
Well said cools, easy to say what we would do, no one knows, self preservation kicks in, back to the old fight or flight, but logically might as well get shot running at as running away, unless you are Usain bolt smile

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#959059 - 23rd Aug 2015 4:47pm Re: Terrorist attack on French train. [Re: casper]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10268
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: casper
The resistance was actually a shambles, there were without doubt some good organised groups which you would expect,but the majority weren't well organised and mostly acted out of self benefit or had to be paid to carry out requested tasks, there was in fighting between the different factions for supremacy and betrayals to the Germans to gain that supremacy, there were also many betrayals of our own agents, half of France was in bed with the Germans, so lets say not a very solid resistance, the French navy refused to surrender its ships and join us although they had a rethink when the allied victory was certain, lets say I wouldn't want them watching my back.


You can hardly blame the French Navy for their reluctance, when Germany took over France, the French Navy had strict instructions to sail their ships to allied territory or if it looked like they would be captured then to scuttle their ships. We never gave them a chance, we attacked them. At the time it was said that we didn't know about those orders but subsequently it has been shown that we did.

Yes, there was some in-fighting in the resistance and some collaborators (the resistance killed 2500 of them) but the amount of bad done was insignificant compared to the amount of good. The allied invasion of France would have failed without the resistance. Most of the major groups were a lot more organised than you imply, don't forget this was operating in occupied territory and largely in the most dangerous areas, it was very difficult circumstances. At the end of the day, the resistance saved a lot of allied lives one way or another and not infrequently at the cost of their own. You only have to look a Czechoslovakia to see how the Germans operated, they killed 15,00 people in retaliation to resistance activities.

Over 30,000 allied aircrew that were shot down in France were assisted by the French resistance.

On DDAY, the resistance had effectively disabled the telephone system leaving the Germans in confusion.

Numerous other allied operations were only possible with the extensive cooperation and activities of the resistance.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#959080 - 23rd Aug 2015 7:40pm Re: Terrorist attack on French train. [Re: diggingdeeper]
casper Offline
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1348
Loc: wallasey
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
Originally Posted By: casper
The resistance was actually a shambles, there were without doubt some good organised groups which you would expect,but the majority weren't well organised and mostly acted out of self benefit or had to be paid to carry out requested tasks, there was in fighting between the different factions for supremacy and betrayals to the Germans to gain that supremacy, there were also many betrayals of our own agents, half of France was in bed with the Germans, so lets say not a very solid resistance, the French navy refused to surrender its ships and join us although they had a rethink when the allied victory was certain, lets say I wouldn't want them watching my back.


You can hardly blame the French Navy for their reluctance, when Germany took over France, the French Navy had strict instructions to sail their ships to allied territory or if it looked like they would be captured then to scuttle their ships. We never gave them a chance, we attacked them. At the time it was said that we didn't know about those orders but subsequently it has been shown that we did.

Yes, there was some in-fighting in the resistance and some collaborators (the resistance killed 2500 of them) but the amount of bad done was insignificant compared to the amount of good. The allied invasion of France would have failed without the resistance. Most of the major groups were a lot more organised than you imply, don't forget this was operating in occupied territory and largely in the most dangerous areas, it was very difficult circumstances. At the end of the day, the resistance saved a lot of allied lives one way or another and not infrequently at the cost of their own. You only have to look a Czechoslovakia to see how the Germans operated, they killed 15,00 people in retaliation to resistance activities.

Over 30,000 allied aircrew that were shot down in France were assisted by the French resistance.

On DDAY, the resistance had effectively disabled the telephone system leaving the Germans in confusion.

Numerous other allied operations were only possible with the extensive cooperation and activities of the resistance.


Not quite right about the French fleet DD they were given six hours to accept a number of choices given to them, the French threw their teddies because a senior British officer was not sent to deliver the options and wasted time stamping their feet, after two hours the British fleet received a message that Vichy France were sending reinforcements and because the day was drawing on, there was also concern for darkness falling the order was given to open fire, Hitler had agreed prior to all this that Vichy France could keep her fleet under its control but the French never transmitted this to the British as per the protocol, when the information was eventually received the belief was that as in previous cases Hitler would break his word and take control of the ships.

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