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Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958651
19th Aug 2015 9:29am
19th Aug 2015 9:29am
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Originally Posted by Mark
I would love to here back from someone who has been fined and what they actually did if it was a cigarette with no where to put it out.


Why should it be acceptable to just throw it on the floor? If you choose to smoke you need to think ahead about the waste it creates.

It might have been OK once, but it isn't any more and people have to get with the times and accept that and change their lifestyle to suit. Same with dogs. When I had a dog you could let it do its business anywhere.

If I eat a sandwich I don't throw the container or wrapper onto the floor just because there are no bins.

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Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Gibbo] #958652
19th Aug 2015 9:37am
19th Aug 2015 9:37am
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Originally Posted by Gibbo

Why should it be acceptable to just throw it on the floor? If you choose to smoke you need to think ahead about the waste it creates

withthat ... in spades.

You create the litter, you dispose of it or take it home. Simples. Yes, that includes ciggy butts. they look just as bad as chewing gum strewn all over the place.

And to the person who said more bins should be provided for butts - why should I, as a council tax payer, pay for you to clean up after your filthy habit?

Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958654
19th Aug 2015 9:44am
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Originally Posted by Mark
Littering to me, is throwing a bag of rubbish up a back entry or behind a wall, not a wrapper or a cigarette butt.


Littering is throwing any kind of rubbish on to the floor. Why should cigarette butts be exempt from littering. They look just as ugly all over the floor as wrappers.

The question is do you throw wrappers and cigarettes on the floor in your garden at home, if not then why should you do it in public places.

Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958655
19th Aug 2015 9:45am
19th Aug 2015 9:45am
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I'm shocked at the numbers 98% for cigarette fines.

I agree I think generally we are all more aware of litter etc, but in my opinion the whole campaign was about littering and to have the first months results in at 98% for smokers, i cant see how its a successful campaign, as there grip prior to the launch was littering but the results say smokers.

They eventually dropped fining dog owners for dog mess as it was not profitable, but they have hit the jack pot now.

Cigarettes its the best money spinner they have had in a long time.
We will see the same amount of litter everywhere else as only 2% have been fined for not cigarette offences.

I dont smoke, but as im reading it, its all about the money.


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Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: peodude] #958656
19th Aug 2015 9:50am
19th Aug 2015 9:50am
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Originally Posted by peodude
Originally Posted by Mark
Littering to me, is throwing a bag of rubbish up a back entry or behind a wall, not a wrapper or a cigarette butt.


Littering is throwing any kind of rubbish on to the floor. Why should cigarette butts be exempt from littering. They look just as ugly all over the floor as wrappers.

The question is do you throw wrappers and cigarettes on the floor in your garden at home, if not then why should you do it in public places.


I guess im thinking of Cleaner Wirral, and from a visual point of vue.
to see 10 ciggy butts or 10 nappies i would see the nappies first.

Personally i don't litter, so its not something that's been on my mind, i've been recycling before we got the green brown grey bins.

My grip is that to me the council is being underhand about there littering campaign, where if the results were going to be as above, then it should be called "Stop That Butt"


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Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958663
19th Aug 2015 11:38am
19th Aug 2015 11:38am
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Birkenhead
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They should follow cars leaving McDonalds etc, I regularly see people chucking food and rubbish from cars.

They do still fine for dog mess btw.

The bad news is the people who throw their rubbish into peoples gardens are now going to get it worse. Technically the Council can fine for this but are pretty unlikely to do so.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958667
19th Aug 2015 11:48am
19th Aug 2015 11:48am
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80,000 in fines collected in one month, more than was collected in several previous years. The reason for this is that the council are not doing the work themselves but have contracted the work out to a private country wide organisation Kingdom who provide similar services in other towns and cities including London, Wolverhampton, Tunbridge Wells and Havant in Hants.
On their web site it states that the fine for littering in Wolverhampton is 75,and there are 6 operatives on duty daily on 8 odd per hour. Kingdom get 45 of the fine and the council get 30, a very sweet deal for Kingdom.
So there is the answer WBC must have a similar deal with Kingdom. These guys are patrolling and they must have daily targets and smokers are the most prolific and easily spotted culprits so they get hit the hardest. The operatives cannot skulk round in disguise as the wear uniforms and have body cameras so they must be easy to spot.
WBC must be chuffed to bits to have acquired this revenue stream for little or no outlay and must be hoping it will carry on at this level indefinitely.
Personally I hate litter and have little sympathy with people who are too lazy to dispose of it properly, but think the fines are excessive and think they should be used on a sliding scale with a smaller amount for an initial offence as a warning before the full penalty is incurred. Any measures to keep our streets clean should be welcomed if they work, but do we approve of a private company cleaning up in both senses of the word. smile

Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958670
19th Aug 2015 12:35pm
19th Aug 2015 12:35pm
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What happens to those who are on benefits and cannot pay ? Do they have to go to court or do community service as a punishment ? I'm not sure how unpaid fines are dealt with in this situation. It would cost even more to process proceedings.

Taking the above quoted charges from other councils, it would seem that a figure is just being plucked out of the air.

Would hope the council is not making a profit out of this....Councils should not make profit and if they are setting money made from one project against another which needs bolstering, is not the way of doing accounts, because it still relies on profits to achieve that end.

If they are not making a profit, then they must be paying a massive amount to this contracted company and we should be asking about that.

Last edited by granny; 19th Aug 2015 12:37pm.

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Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958672
19th Aug 2015 12:50pm
19th Aug 2015 12:50pm
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Birkenhead
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People dropping litter turn the town into a sh*tty mess, the council is doing something about it and punishing those for their anti-social behaviour - and yet people moan about this???

That so many people have been fined shows how widespread the problem is - and its a good thing that the right message is being put across.

Obviously some people like litter and mess, in order to further satiate your desires, I can organise as much rubbish as you can cope with if you want it for your front garden, I can even get bin loads of fag ends delivered as some seem to think these are the most desirable.

Rubbish and litter cleaning costs US a fortune, these fines won't even touch the amount it costs US to clean up after these dirty people.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958675
19th Aug 2015 1:22pm
19th Aug 2015 1:22pm
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Wirral
granny Offline
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We already pay our council tax towards cleaning the roads and pavements.
There is also a 1000 fine for dog fouling, but nobody ever seems to have administered that on any regular basis, if at all.
Cleaning dog muck off a kiddies sandal and socks, when they are on their way to school ,is pretty dreadful. Why not enforce that long standing law also ?

Nobody is saying nothing should be done, but 80 seems a steep fine for a cigarette butt, and unaffordable by unemployed.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958676
19th Aug 2015 1:44pm
19th Aug 2015 1:44pm
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Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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80 is less than two weeks worth of fags! If they can afford the fags they can afford the fine.

I think 80 is a fair balance between affordability and punishment, the message has got to get across. I bet many of us will think twice as to whether we attempt to chase or not chase that bit of paper we dropped accidentally.

The cost of street cleaning to US is ridiculous (nearly 1m), something that reduces and offsets that cost has got to be good.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: diggingdeeper] #958678
19th Aug 2015 2:28pm
19th Aug 2015 2:28pm
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Wirral
granny Offline
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Yes, agreed. If they can afford the fags, then they could manage the fine, but it's not simply fags is it ?

The fines nationwide vary from 50 to 80, and e.g. Thameside Council calculate 12 tonnes of dog excrement a day. So what is costing more, dog's or smokers ?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I just think it is totally unbalanced, and the most guilty are getting away with it.

If this is a national purge, which it would appear to be , will the residents of the communities in the streets of Bradford and Leeds also be given these fines ? 16,000 flyers in Bradford were withdrawn in 2011, for fear of inciting racial hatred.

In my view it should be a national scheme, same price everywhere, and applicable to ALL offenders, no matter what the litter or deposits. Then everyone knows exactly what is expected of them and their family and friends.




Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: granny] #958680
19th Aug 2015 3:41pm
19th Aug 2015 3:41pm
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between heaven & hell
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I was in New Brighton on Saturday lunch time with the dog & this dirty old git had just emptied a carrier bag of chips & other waste food just by the steps where the cafes are.Were was the litter police then,my dog is a food thief at the best of times manged to keep clea,he probably thought he was doing good feeding the sky rats


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Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: Mark] #958681
19th Aug 2015 3:51pm
19th Aug 2015 3:51pm
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Good point on the non payment of fines granny, that is why we have ended up with entries full of old furniture and other kinds of junk, the council are reluctant to bring prosecutions because of the legal costs involved, and the possibility that when found guilty those involved will be unable to pay thus leaving the council with the bill not only for clearing up but for costs.

Re: Wirral Litter Police : 80 Fines [Re: granny] #958682
19th Aug 2015 5:07pm
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Originally Posted by granny
Nobody is saying nothing should be done, but 80 seems a steep fine for a cigarette butt, and unaffordable by unemployed.


Can't afford to pay? Then you have to do litter picking for the day. Yet if we did that, there would be uproar over that as well. Dog muck should be just as vigorously enforced, i agree.

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