Forums Forums General Forums A - Z Lifestyle Reason for no religion ?

Apparently the Mormons have a unique version of the commandments, not taught in any other religion. So, with religions being based on the commandments, I imagine that one very good reason why the Mormon book cannot be accepted.

Moses and the tablets is the law of the Judaism, Islam and Christianity. How it happened we can only go on what we are told. The important things are the laws. Moses had led the Israelites out of Egypt across the Red Sea and they sited themselves at Mount Sinai. That was where Moses ( Tribe of Levi ,who were the priests) received the tablets with the commandments. The 600,000 Israelites were gathered together by an exceedingly loud trumpet call,and God spoke to all of them words of the covenant. They were frightened and moved away. Moses then went up the mount with Joshua. Now I'm not sure how long he was up there,(40 days and nights I think) but the tablets in those days were of soft clay and the words in characters would have been imprinted with a tool or even the tips of very slim leaves, like a paint brush. Left to bake in the heat until hard. Moses possibly did write the words on the tablets and then appeared to all the tribes at the base of the mount carrying the tablets, so they all saw the result. 'Gods finger' is no doubt an expression of speech, but we don't know.
Many a strange thing happens this day, which we have no explanation for. Countless worldwide accounts of the spinning sun, for example. A sun which people can look at directly without any protection for their eyes.Can that be explained ?

Joseph Smith, heard the angel, but only 8 people saw the gold plates behind locked doors. So there is a slight difference, although yes, I suppose the same could apply. Assuming it would really depend on direct evidence.

What 'modern knowledge' do you think makes both stories or accounts unbelievable ?

Modern knowledge? That's straight forward.
It is my understanding that Christians believe the following to the true: –
God is infallible
The Bible is the true word of God
These aren’t outrageous statements, and have been stated by men of the cloth for eons to make their point during sermons
Let’s take the Christian God’s greatest act, creating the world and all who live on it. The start of all this, in God’s own words: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day”. Using genealogy, we can roughly estimate the age of the earth, as stated by the Bible, to be 6500 years. The very top estimate would be close to 10,000 years, but that’s a stretch. Science has proven that the earth is closer to 4.5 billion years old. Radiometric dating has shown us this, and has remained consistent with lunar and terrestrial samples. In other words, we haven’t just tested this once in one situation, it’s been extensively tested. This isn’t a guess, or a hunch, there’s a substantial amount of evidence to back this up. And that’s the geological age of the earth. What about the creatures on the earth? We, as human beings, were created 6500 years ago, according to the Bible, starting with Adam and then Eve. The oldest discovered human fossil is approximately 1,300,000 (1.3 million) years old. That would have meant that humans lived on earth before God created either humans or the earth. In fact, depending on how much evidence you consider to be acceptable, and how you define us as a species, you could place humans at between 1.8 million and 130,000 years old. No one could sensibly claim that humans are less than 130,000 years old. There is simply too much evidence available for our inspection. Either way, much older than the Bible’s claims.

This was compelling me to answer ages ago, but I really couldn't be bothered.
It shows a complete lack of understanding of the bible. Although that in itself is not necessarily anyone's fault, it does show that those who try to dismiss it, clearly have no concept or knowledge of what it is about.
Firstly, nowhere does the bible state that the earth is 6000 yrs old.
At the time Moses wrote Genesis, it states "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day”.
Those who take everything in black and white, must realise that up to that point, there was no measure of time. 1 day could have equalled 6,000 yrs.
That was the first of the Julian calendar, which gave everything a meaning. The stars, the sun, the moon, the years.
You will note that everyone seemed to live a long time in the book of Genesis : Enoch lived 365 years before God took him (Genesis 5:22–24). Lamech lived 777 years (Genesis 5:21). Genesis 9:29 records that Noah lived 950 years. But the oldest man in the Bible, outliving all the rest, is a man named Methuselah, who lived 969 years (Genesis 5:27). From then on, the age of man became less and less as the calculation of age became more widespread and the calendar was used. We still use much the same calendar to this day, which gives us so much in relation to science, maths , astrology, nature etc. etc.
Please don't dismiss what is , by what you wish to use as myth.
Adam and Eve, were stated to be the origin of man. Same applies and although there are many theories about the Adam and Eve story, what does it matter ? It's an explanation given about human nature. My personal view was that it explained the difference between right and wrong, or good and bad,or which ever way you wish to explain it and we all still have the ability to do the right thing, or do the wrong thing. That particular point could be argued by many, as I have never really questioned it, as to my mind there is no need.

Happy Easter

Pennyworth:
Turin shroud not Christ?. Not a full shroud but a head piece John 20:7

And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.

All the other gospels speak of clothes (not a cloth)


Book of Mormon: Unlike Bible,and Koran which is supported with. Archeological geographical evidence, coinage etc. The book of Mormon has places and coinage mentioned that have not been found in antiquity. The huge battle on the Hill of Cumorah? would have left many relics but none found. Also authorage is limited to the claims of one person (Smith) unlike Jewish, Christain scriptures with many authors.

Origins: Personally find it easier to believe that all we have in the natural physical world is a result of purpose and intent (which has gone wrong to some extent)than that in the beginning was nothing and nothing exploded. Explosions tend to deconstruct rather than construct.

Modern knowledge has added to biblical understanding. .Consider the bible account of the sun standing still. Given the period in history it would have been believed that the sun actually moves in the sky by observation rather than scientific measurement. The story today might be more accurate that the earth stood still--which itself would be unbelieveable because of all the associated ramifications- except with faith.

I think it strange that the arguement for religion only ever seems to come back to the christian bible and various quotes as if them being mentioned makes it true. On the fourth day god created the heavens - poppycock! How did they measure a day without the sun already there and our earth going around it?
Science won major victories against entrenched religious dogma throughout the 19th century. In the 1800s, discoveries of Neanderthal remains in Belgium, Gibraltar and Germany showed that humans were not the only hominids to occupy earth, and fossils and remains of now extinct animals and plants further demonstrated that flora and fauna evolve, live for millennia and then sometimes die off, ceding their place on the planet to better-adapted species. These discoveries lent strong support to the then emerging theory of evolution, published by Charles Darwin in 1859. And in 1851, Leon Foucault, a self-trained French physicist, proved definitively that earth rotates—rather than staying in place as the sun revolved around it—using a special pendulum whose circular motion revealed the planet’s rotation. Geological discoveries made over the same century devastated the “young earth” hypothesis. We now know that earth is billions, not thousands, of years old, as some theologians had calculated based on counting generations back to the biblical Adam. All of these discoveries defeated literal interpretations of Scripture. I repeat defeated literal interpretations. Why is the christian faith more likely to be correct than any other? Simply because the catholic church and others spread across the globe ignoring any domestic faiths and forcing their beliefs on others. Religion is the biggest cause of conflict either by blogs such as this or on a battlefields. If there was such a god why would he permit such sufferings? Surely he could speak to all types of church leader and make them all see the same beliefs? Don't get me started on so-called miracles.

Religion is just a different branch of politics, in some ways more honest, in other ways less honest than our normal political system.

The existence of god/gods is a completely separate issue to religion.

Most major established religions are highly hypocritical when you look at the money side of things, what they preach to others is most certainly not what is practised by the religious organisations.

The bible is wide open to interpretation, the translation of ancient texts created by scribes from third party sources cannot be exact. "the first day" translates to "at the start" even in modern English, with all the other variables its a wonder anything can be relied upon as being precise.

I am not against religion, its personal choice much the same as politics and even sports. If you want to be recognised as belonging to a group of like minded people, that is your choice. I have some concerns where people believe they have to accept the beliefs of others.

Science vs Religeon will always be a continuous battle because Science vs Science is a necessary battle to enable advancement. Both Heliocentrism and Diurnla Motion are still not finalised and probably never will be - there has been no absolute proof and there cannot be until the very existence of matter at all particle level, all fields and all forces have been both defined and finalised.

Science V Bible. Sorry if you don't like quotes or references, but at times they are really the only way of proof to a particular point.

https://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/scienceconfirmsthebible.shtml

Bible and science do work together, and that has been accredited by one of the recent Popes.

Bible Old Testament although used by the Christians is in fact the (Torah) Jewish Book, of which all family lines descended. 12 tribes of Israel.....
People who constantly quote the first few verses of Genesis to try to prove their point seem to fail to understand , there are quite a lot more books to be read within the Bible.

Moses wrote the first five books. The Bible has been questioned and quizzed and shredded piece by piece for a VERY long time, by philosophers, scientists, archaeologists , mathematicians, (of which philosophy is also a mathematical degree) and scholars from the highest schools of thought . So far, despite all attempts, nobody has been able to prove it to be a fake or disprove it.
Nobody can prove that the Gospels of Genesis were written by anyone particular rather than Moses, and that proves another point I would have thought. One thing is for sure, Moses was there at the 'new' beginning of taking people away from Pagan Gods, and the practice of human sacrifices. Maybe that can't be accepted by many either, but it matters not.

So for those who say the Bible is all fake, and no good and all lies, do they not see anything positive towards a new beginning that it describes ? Explaining how to live, love and enjoy their lives and to give thanks. That's mainly what it is , intertwined with the family tree and history of the Jews. Continued through Jesus as Christianity (eventually) so it was open to all with less severity and forgiveness as opposed to punishment which the Torah would seem to administer. To be given forgiveness, we have to recognise what we want to be forgiven for, which in turn releases our innermost guilt (I suppose).

God is not a man, and when people blame God for not stopping suffering, do they see the devil as a man too, he who causes the suffering ? Why not blame the devil for all the dreadful happenings ?

People who cast all their 'blame' onto God, if things don't go right for them, truly make me laugh. How can they blame God, if they come to the conclusion that there is no God, because if there was, he wouldn't let something like that happen and then they don't believe in God ? So who are they really blaming ?

It's as if they expect that everything , absolutely everything in this life to be flawless. If they do expect that, then why do they.....assuming they all think that creation was just an accident that happened anyway ?

Which brings me onto miracles. They continue to happen, as said before and the greatest miracle of all, is the conception of new life !

These points of view about time and space and particles matter not. Even if the tiniest particle collided with fresh air, where did that tiny particle come from ? They'll never be able to prove that either. They know 5% about the universe, apparently . How do they know it's 5% when they don't know how big the universe is......like eternity ? They know nothing in relation. I would like to know how they can justify the billions of dollars spent on such projects of mightiness to prove what , or disprove what ? I think those who support the vast amount of money spent on science are somewhat hypocritical in their view on the idea of hypocrisy when having notions about the money advanced to the Church. The Church organisations do in fact contribute massively to feeding and clothing those in most distress, as opposed to creating chemicals and bombs to blow them apart.

Point made previously in connection to the opening verses of Genesis : Those who take everything in black and white, must realise that up to that point, there was no measure of time. 1 day could have equalled 6,000 yrs. or even a million years or longer.

The vast amount of money spent on science is fully justified in order for life to continue.

We desperately need to colonise, we are far too susceptible to any of a number of disasters that could wipe us out, colonisation in space is the only way forward.

Yellowstone Park super-volcano is one almost unquestioned example that could wipe most of human life on the planet through climate change and obscuration of the sun.

A relatively small meteor could do the same.

Disease could easily wipe us out, especially as we are now in the DNA fiddling age - think of a potential suicide bomber who is an expert on DNA and we could be in deep trouble.

Is fatalism a religion?

It's being so cheerful that keeps you going DD !!

[quote=Pinzgauer]It's being so cheerful that keeps you going DD !! [/quote

Pinz, I am happy as The Telegraph Inn now has Trappers Hat on at £2.80 a pint!

Well, that settles it. There is a God

I can remember vowing to pack in boozing if it ever got to five bob a pint. Had to pay £3.80 in Solihull a fortnight ago, absolutely gobsmacked. Terrible thing when £2.80 seems to be cheap. Gutted fellahs, absolutely gutted.

There should be free beer for old sailors!

I you don't like it...please don't read it!




Medjugorje Messages

Right now, there are thousands of young people in Medjugorje for the annual Youth Fest!

Our Lady appeared to Mirjana Soldo today, August 2nd, 2015, and delivered the following message:

"Dear children, I, as a mother who loves her children, see how difficult the time in which you live is. I see your suffering, but you need to know that you are not alone. My Son is with you. He is everywhere. He is invisible, but you can see Him if you live Him. He is the light which illuminates your soul and gives you peace. He is the Church which you need to love and to always pray and fight for - but not only with words, instead with acts of love. My children, bring it about for everyone to come to know my Son, bring it about that He may be loved, because the truth is in my Son born of God - the Son of God. Do not waste time deliberating too much; you will distance yourselves from the truth. With a simple heart accept His word and live it. If you live His word, you will pray. If you live His word, you will love with a merciful love; you will love each other. The more that you will love, the farther away you will be from death. For those who will live the word of my Son and who will love, death will be life. Thank you."

Our Lady added, "Pray to be able to see my Son in your shepherds. Pray to be able to embrace Him in them."

Adtendite a falsis prophetis