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What is that supposed to mean ?

Nooooo - the backlog and shortage of money has been created by the promotion of private care.

As with many industries these days, the smaller guys are leaching off the big guys.

How much does it cost the private hospitals for training? - nothing, it is effectively subsidised by the NHS (and so a double whammy!).

How much do the private hospitals pay consultants? - more than NHS, this means that NHS have to pay their consultants more or they tend to just work part-time private.

What sort of operations do private hospitals carry out? - they cherry pick the ones that are most profitable which skews the NHS costs in comparison.

How much does it cost a private hospital to have NHS backup cover? - nothing even though the NHS has to provide a priority service, the NHS has to provide its own backup which is a major overhead.

So private hospitals are doing most of the stuff on the cheap (except paying the consultants) but charge more, the country is now paying the premium cost for the budget service which also disadvantages its own NHS service.

The quantity of patients is not going to go down, the investment is needed in the NHS and should have been done earlier, its a problem that will not go away. We already have drugs being withdrawn (ie the NHS refusing treatment!!!), the NHS is cutting back, the government is growing the private service - that can only head one way.

Oh yes, you also realise that a private consultant can prescribe NHS funded medication - yet another double whammy against the NHS.

If you can't say anything constructive in a debate, then don't say anything. Futile one syllable remarks are not impressionable.

17 meanings for VOM. Pick one granny.

DD , I cannot be bothered continuing for obvious reasons.
You have your opinion and I can see the benefits for many who are able to have an operation sooner rather than later, if it helps them.
Cost is cost in any walk of life, some might not get a chance and if your mother needed an op under such a scheme and had the choice then I think you would be more than happy for her to go ahead.
If on principle alone you refused her that, then I think it would not be a very calculated reason.
Whilst the hospital crisis is in full swing, for whatever reasons, if the option is there, I cannot see why it should not be accepted. Building new operating theatres will take time, and you surely know how long it takes for even architectural plans to be drawn up etc. etc.

There is one other thing to be incorporated, and that this process has been going on for years.

Now I am not prepared to continue any further tonight, because someone is behaving is a ridiculous way.

Some very fair and valid points have been made for the usage of private health care. I have issues relating to the way public cash is given out to less scrupulous companies as mentioned in the posted article. If £1,200 per minutes is paid out to agency nurses why is it not simply paid for nurses and not pay agency fees? The article is littered with figures and i'm sure it is probably just the tip of the iceberg. The comment asking why surgeons should not be able to do private work too is a fair one but if we are paying their wages then they should only do NHS work during their normal working day but do extra work in their own time. Its a fact that they do both throughout the day so who actually pays and who profits. The debate is bound to run on and on and it is about profit and sometimes greed. It is leading to a multi layered NHS which will not suit everyone and some will be too blinkered to see.

The principal of getting your NHS treatment done privately or even in a different country when the local NHS are unable to provide it in a reasonable time-scale has been a patients right for a number of years and the NHS have to fund it. I'm not arguing against that.

Nothing is changing from a patient's perspective, but a lot of funding is changing hands.

What I am disgusted by, is the NHS is in desperate need of funding to stop backlogs happening, money is suddenly available and it is getting thrown at private companies - why?

This is intentionally depriving the NHS and promoting private health care - surely that is closing the NHS down?

It can't be depriving the NHS, as it is going towards treating the NHS patients. That's how I see it.
So far as figures are concerned I have no idea, but in the meantime, surely a possible solution for many in a different hospital, is no different than being at Arrowe Park or anywhere else. Just call it Arrowe Park annexe, it might sound better. Also I doubt they would do major ops in the private hospitals (don't really know) but minor ops without general anaesthetic, can be in and out in a few hours. It has to be an option at the moment for many. The place was heaving when I went, about 20 having eye ops, and obviously many others for other things. Maybe they are operations that need more immediate attention, I know mine was, and a lady was there who had been waiting for 2 years at Arrowe Park, so she had gone back to her GP. as she was deteriorating rapidly. Arrowe Park had said she would have to wait another few months.
Anyway, I was very grateful, even tho I didn't ask for it. At the time, I was unable to drive, falling down steps, and not able to judge anything. Not nice when the 3D goes. Now my sight is just about perfect again. Thanks to them.

If it pays a private company to build an annexe at APH then it would pay the NHS to build the same annex at APH, the NHS can lease it out for private (we already have the basis for this in place at APH called the Park Suite where APH gets the profits).

Its the NHS with the backlog not the Private Hospitals, its the NHS that needs the additional facilities.

The NHS is also promoting that GPs enhance their facilities for minor surgery.

If your waiting time is excessive, ask your doctor about NHS funding privately, its been available for years (since 2009 I think) under Patient Choice.

I'm genuinly glad that you had a positive experience Granny but I think you have also proven that more funding is needed in the NHS rather than outsourcing, which must still be paid for from public funds. The extra funding would most certainly bring down waiting times, lead to better treatment and improve staff moral.

It would be interesting if the gov had an independent bean counter work out the cost of various operations done in the NHS and then see if the private companies could do the same ops for that amount.
ie paid per operation and not as one huge sum paid annually

The government has various means of finance checking but if ever they want to implement change they say "we do not recognise those figures" or results, depending on the process used. Listen out for the phrase on the news, it appears quite regularly.

Is it me, or is the point I'm making not getting through ?

Treatment done on national health, treatment done by surgeons/ specialist/ consultants who are also employed by the NHS , treatment performed in operating theatres, operating theatres in the walls of a private hospital. Why is it EXTRA funding ?The same funding would be used in an NHS hospital, it is only the waiting times that are different, and the waiting times on the NHS are being reduced, instead of increasing by providing this service. SIMPLE. Stop making it difficult !

In very simple terms......

You want to go to Liverpool from Seacombe by the ferry boat.
The first ferry boat is full
A second ferry boat is sailing from Woodside, if you can get there, so at the same cost you can get that one.
So you get on the one from Woodside and arrive at Liverpool a little before the Seacombe ferry boat. It didn't cost anymore !.

I had a similar experience to Granny when I needed a knee replacement. NHS choice I think it is/was called. So I could have the knee done in Arrowe Park and wait at least 6 months or in Murrayfield within 3 weeks. No contest, as once I had decided to have the knee replaced I wanted it done asap.Same surgeon worked both hospitals but as there is limited capacity everywhere the waiting list for Murrayfield was much shorter.To me it it makes perfect sense to basically rent the private facilities just as anybody would hire,say a cement mixer as it is only needed for a limited period.Talk of spending the money on improving NHS facilities misses the point that building a new hospital or increasing the capacity at those we have seems to take an eternity. The last thing anybody wants is having to wait for an operation.People complain all the time about long waiting lists and when something is done to shorten the delays people still complain.