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Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: efiste2] #929851
20th Feb 2015 4:28pm
20th Feb 2015 4:28pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,591
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Birkenhead
That's interesting, it would head under Knox Street and head towards the Monks Ferry Tunnel. This must be the one that was used as a drawing office I think, its somewhere around there.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: diggingdeeper] #929908
20th Feb 2015 6:40pm
20th Feb 2015 6:40pm
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Wallasey
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Wallasey
I think we are looking at two different things here.

There does seem to have been a tunnel under Monks Ferry (even though it shows as Ivy St on Google Earth) to the old Monks Ferry station (which was later used as a coal terminal). The square shape seen in the ariel photo could mean it was made by the cut and cover method. It seems too small to take an engine. It starts at the top end of the buildings running parallel to Church St, on their easterly side.

Also, there seems to have been two entrances from the shipyard going under Abbey St. when looked at from another ariel photograph. Although the path to it curves with the railway lines, I think it's down an embankment from them.

There's no trace of any of these now, but there is plenty of info on this site regarding the making of the dock and the loss of the graveyard etc.

I've attached another ariel photo on which I've marked in orange the line to Monks Ferry terminal and put green dots at either end of the Monks Ferry tunnel. The purple dots mark what look like round tunnel entrances going under Abbey St.

Attached Files
Lairds North Dots.jpg (274 downloads)
Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: efiste2] #929924
20th Feb 2015 8:03pm
20th Feb 2015 8:03pm
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Pensby
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8HBob Offline
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A former Lairds employee once told me that a tunnel was started somwhere in the yard, but it wasn't very long & came to a dead end. It wasn't a railway tunnel, but something to do with drainage or the like.

Bob.

Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: 8HBob] #929962
20th Feb 2015 11:32pm
20th Feb 2015 11:32pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
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The tunnel in the 1912 OS map (post 4) is clearly a rail tunnel. It joins rail tracks at the yard end and at the other end at Monks' Ferry, terminates in a turntable.


Carpe diem.
Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: chriskay] #929971
21st Feb 2015 6:25am
21st Feb 2015 6:25am
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tranmere
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bert1 Offline

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Map images below are before and after Princess Dry Dock,other tunnels on these maps are clearly marked. No tunnel is marked at Abbey Street, so was it a tunnel in the planning that was scrapped?

Attached Files
001.JPG (244 downloads)
002.JPG (243 downloads)
Last edited by bert1; 21st Feb 2015 6:28am.

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Bertieone.
Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: efiste2] #930073
21st Feb 2015 6:24pm
21st Feb 2015 6:24pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,591
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Birkenhead
It must have been a tunnel at some point, they aren't going to dig the cutting and lay the line for nothing, its the only line that goes to the Abbey St wall. And we even have a picture of the tunnel entrance above.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: diggingdeeper] #931581
1st Mar 2015 8:13am
1st Mar 2015 8:13am
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Posts: 8
bromborough
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eruption1984 Offline
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I might be wrong, but looking at the Britain from above pic it looks as though the Tunnel is bricked up and is just buffer stop. Maybe it was intended to be a tunnel, if it was would it have been a link or branch off from monks tunnel (If that was the case then there would be a bricked up area or branch off Monks Tunnel, which there doesn't seem to be). Shame there isn't a recent pic.

Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: eruption1984] #932722
8th Mar 2015 12:27am
8th Mar 2015 12:27am
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Thingwall
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bigpete Offline
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Very interesting - I have researched this area quite extensively and only knew of the Monks Ferry tunnel. I think this tunnel was used to move single wagonloads of 'steam coal' into Lairds - for the boilers of ships under construction/test to be steamed on.

I will look at my maps for the area again !

Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: bigpete] #932726
8th Mar 2015 2:08am
8th Mar 2015 2:08am
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Thingwall
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bigpete Offline
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Thingwall
Can add a little to the puzzle - on a 1950 Britain from above image - there is a definite buffer stop.

Also and perhaps crucially the line is not a British Railway run one - as it is separated from them by fencing and also it branches from the Lairds line that runs next to the BR line over the bridge on Chester Street.

So it is a private line within the Lairds site...

Also as hinted at above, it is situated in a cutting - on a downward gradient towards the 'tunnel mouth' - so at least it looks like it was meant to go through there at some point.

If it was pre-steam railway (which it isn't) - there were tunnels at much lower heights - just enough to get a horse and wagon through - known as tramways - it initially looks like that may be the case - but the destination of the line is then the issue !

Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: bigpete] #932805
8th Mar 2015 2:32pm
8th Mar 2015 2:32pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
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Originally Posted by bigpete
Very interesting - I have researched this area quite extensively and only knew of the Monks Ferry tunnel. I think this tunnel was used to move single wagonloads of 'steam coal' into Lairds - for the boilers of ships under construction/test to be steamed on.

I will look at my maps for the area again !


Now that's a strong possibility. Because of the turntable shown on the 1911 O.S. map it's clear that only one wagon at a time could be transferred from the main line at Monks' Ferry to the line at 90 deg. leading into Laird's.


Carpe diem.
Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: chriskay] #932880
8th Mar 2015 8:05pm
8th Mar 2015 8:05pm
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Posts: 8,193
tranmere
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bert1 Offline

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If the map below is correctly dated, 1850. The rail lines are already in place. The Monks Ferry Tunnel, Chester & Birkenhead railway opened in 1844. Could the tunnel in question(Abbey St) be the one in The Daily News, February 18, 1846. Additional Monks Ferry Tunnel will not be proceeded with.

Attached Files
1850.JPG (84 downloads)
1846.JPG (83 downloads)

God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: efiste2] #932885
8th Mar 2015 9:51pm
8th Mar 2015 9:51pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,086
Wirral
snowhite Offline

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Amazing.
Thanks Bert for taking the time to look this up for us.
interesting thread enjoyed every post.xx

Re: Old Birkenhead Railways [Re: efiste2] #932919
8th Mar 2015 11:40pm
8th Mar 2015 11:40pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,591
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Birkenhead
Excellent work Bert clap clap clap


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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