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#925871 - 5th Feb 2015 1:29pm Anyone know these locations?
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
A while ago, I bought this first-day cover. There are a couple of places on the route which I can't identify. They are Greenfield and Howey Lane. The final destination, Grave Lane is obviously a mistake and should be Grange Lane. Anyone any ideas?


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#925882 - 5th Feb 2015 1:50pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
Gibbo Offline
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Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1833
Loc: Oxton
Is this any good?

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/birkenhead_grange_lane/

There's a timetable here with stations listed:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/u/upton_by_chester/

Howey Lane is mentioned here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/axisassortment/2%20-%20History%20%28redone%29/02%20-%201801-1900.htm

Quote:
In 1833, permission was given for the re-routing of the ancient Chester Turnpike between Bromborough and Birkenhead. This resulted in the building of a bridge over Bromborough Pool and the construction of a new, shorter, more level toll road along the line of the present A41, New Chester Road.

The Howey Lane Toll Gate, which stood 100 yards to the south of today’s Bebington Station, was moved to the new junction of Bebington Road and New Chester Road – on the site where the now empty HSBC Bank building stands today.



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#925885 - 5th Feb 2015 2:01pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
Gibbo Offline
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Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1833
Loc: Oxton
And looking on Wherethepath maps I think Moston became Mollington or Upton.

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.ht...&rgrat=None

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#925892 - 5th Feb 2015 3:00pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: Gibbo]
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Thanks,Gibbo; that solves Howey Lane. It still leaves Greenfield that I can't place. The timetable on the disused stations site is later. The station listed as Sutton became Ledsham. I knew where Moston was from Moston Hall, just before the canal at the bottom of Backford hill, but I didn't know there was ever a station there.
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#925897 - 5th Feb 2015 3:26pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7947
Loc: tranmere
Could have Greenfields been what is now Bromborough and Bromborough what is now Bromborough Rake.
Greenfields Ave is close to Bromborough Station.


Edited by bert1 (5th Feb 2015 3:30pm)
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#925902 - 5th Feb 2015 4:23pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: bert1]
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
I've been wondering about that, Bert. In the sessional papers in 1837, in the Lords, there is mention of the cost of walling at Greenfields farm, which the railway passes near in a cutting; it's at Bromborough station. The only problem is that I'm assuming that the places listed on the first day cover are where there are stations, and Bromborough is mentioned and Greenfield is between there and Hooton. I'm pretty sure there was never a station at Bromborough Rake until very recently.


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#925905 - 5th Feb 2015 4:58pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Incidentally, the sessional papers I mentioned are available free as an e-book here
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uNVbA...p;q&f=false

It's the bill authorising the building of the railway from Chester to Birkenhead and runs to nearly 500 pages: I haven't finished it yet but it gives a marvellous insight into the details involved. Here's a sample page discussing what effect the railway will have on the canal traffic via Ellesmere Port to Liverpool.


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#925906 - 5th Feb 2015 5:06pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7947
Loc: tranmere
I think Bromborough station happens to be in the Greenfields area of Bromborough and that's why its mentioned. If it was a station in its own right, it would be mentioned in the rate ofinclinations.



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Edited by bert1 (5th Feb 2015 5:07pm)
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#925912 - 5th Feb 2015 6:01pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
Norton Online   Reading

Smartchild

Registered: 29th Sep 2011
Posts: 637
Loc: Wallasey
Bromborough Rake, according to Wikipedia...

"The station was opened in 1985, to coincide with the electrification of the line between Rock Ferry and Hooton, which allowed through trains to Liverpool, via the Mersey Railway Tunnel."

And for Holt Hill Road, should we substitute 'Green Lane'?

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#925931 - 5th Feb 2015 6:52pm Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: Norton]
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: Norton


And for Holt Hill Road, should we substitute 'Green Lane'?


That would just perpetuate the mistaken idea that there was a main line station there.
Bert, you're probably right.

There was argument from the beginning as to whether the line should go to Woodside. In the end, it didn't since that would have been favouring the Woodside ferry over the Birkenhead and Tranmere ferries It's all in the Bill, with complex arguments about distances and road gradients; fascinating.
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#926041 - 6th Feb 2015 1:05am Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
Norton Online   Reading

Smartchild

Registered: 29th Sep 2011
Posts: 637
Loc: Wallasey
Yes, the idea of a main line station is a common mistake, but in this respect it refers to a location between stations for the purpose of referencing the inclination of the track over certain sections.

What I don't know is exactly where it refers to. We have Holt Hill and Holt Road, neither of which cross Old Chester Road to reach the railway line. Perhaps the easterly end of Holt Hill was renamed after the survey, but Green Lane is on the maps from at least 1875...

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#926044 - 6th Feb 2015 7:16am Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: Norton]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7947
Loc: tranmere
The 1857 Post Office Directory, Streets, there was no Green Lane, Holt Hill or Road listed.

1861 directory, Streets.

Green Lane, Old Chester Rd
Holt Rd, Old Chester Rd
Holt Hill, Tranmere.
The Holt, Holt Hill, Tranmere.

Present day, Green Lane station frontage is in Old Chester Rd, not Green Lane.
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#926045 - 6th Feb 2015 7:31am Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
billy_anorak59 Offline

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Registered: 4th Feb 2009
Posts: 210
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Just going back to the Greenfield bit, and to confirm - I have a map of the 'proposed' Chester and Birkenhead Railway dated 1836 that I found a few years ago now in an antique shop near Lincoln.

Greenfield is shown, as suspected, between Bromborough Rake and where the present-day Bromborough station is.
...So perhaps it was a proposed station which never got built, the actual station being repositioned slightly more towards Chester in the later 1840 scheme?


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Edited by billy_anorak59 (6th Feb 2015 7:32am)
Edit Reason: No picture
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#926050 - 6th Feb 2015 8:01am Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: billy_anorak59]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7947
Loc: tranmere
1850s map, possibly later if the Post Office directory is correct. Is it possible, Holt Hill was more recognisable (Area) to train travellers than Green Lane at the time. Also what I think Norton is touching on, could Holt Hill originally have run down to the junction of Old Chester Rd and Green Lane.


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#926083 - 6th Feb 2015 10:51am Re: Anyone know these locations? [Re: chriskay]
billy_anorak59 Offline

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Registered: 4th Feb 2009
Posts: 210
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Here's the relevant part of the 1836 map if it helps Bert, as the more important roads appear to be coloured an orangey-brown.


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