WikiWirral its great, register, enjoy and welcome.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,030,767
Topics75,918
Members13,867
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs4
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
26 registered members (5 invisible), 1,457 guests, and365 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Broken washing Machine
by BultacoAstro. 3rd Jun 2021 11:24am
Funny Pics and Posts
by neddy. 2nd Feb 2013 4:21pm
New Wirral History
Ford Estate 6th, 7th and 8th Avenue?
by alayne108. 10th Jun 2021 9:08pm
761 Gallaghers at Wirral Golf
by derekdwc. 3rd Jun 2021 9:48am
Viking Wirral map and current map
by derekdwc. 15th May 2021 12:22pm
Perrin Hall Birkenhead North End ?
by Reno37. 25th Dec 2013 1:19am
Hind Street Gas Works area & Thomas Street
by Reno37. 25th Nov 2013 12:37pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
New Brighton Artwork
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
Topic Replies
Poulton Road, Wallasey
by Soozie. 15th Jun 2021 3:37pm
Free chest of drawers
by Heidi123. 15th Jun 2021 2:01pm
Perrin Hall Birkenhead North End ?
by derekdwc. 15th Jun 2021 1:16pm
CUPS & SAUCERS FREE
by gerry1. 14th Jun 2021 8:19am
Ford Estate 6th, 7th and 8th Avenue?
by alayne108. 13th Jun 2021 7:24pm
puma football boots size 7 and 7.5
by gerry1. 12th Jun 2021 10:57pm
Wilkos paint. help
by muzzy2. 12th Jun 2021 2:35pm
What song are you listening to?
by BultacoAstro. 12th Jun 2021 9:53am
Looking for Food delivery driver
by ultimate. 10th Jun 2021 1:26pm
June
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Translate some music #858469
15th Feb 2014 12:38pm
15th Feb 2014 12:38pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,193
Birkenhead
D
derekdwc Online content OP

Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content OP

Forum Veteran
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,193
Birkenhead
Can anybody read this piece of music and tell me where it is in one of Handel's compositions. Came across it as a suggestion that Handel filched it from an old Cheshire song or vice-versa
Sadly I can't read music or it was never taught at school

Attached Files Handel.jpg
Last edited by derekdwc; 15th Feb 2014 12:40pm.
Google Ads
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #858595
15th Feb 2014 7:55pm
15th Feb 2014 7:55pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Great Sutton
C
Cobby Offline
Enthusiast
Cobby  Offline
Enthusiast
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Great Sutton
Not from any Handel work I'm familiar with and I don't recognise the melody at all, though he did write a huge amount!

eta it's also not really Handel's style, it has quite a 'folky' feel to it

Last edited by Cobby; 15th Feb 2014 7:57pm.
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #858612
15th Feb 2014 9:08pm
15th Feb 2014 9:08pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,193
Birkenhead
D
derekdwc Online content OP

Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content OP

Forum Veteran
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,193
Birkenhead
Handel visited Parkgate quite a few times on his way to Ireland

cobby please read pages 508 and 509 which may help you further
A Glossary of Words used in the County of Cheshire

Last edited by derekdwc; 15th Feb 2014 9:21pm.
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #858638
16th Feb 2014 7:48am
16th Feb 2014 7:48am
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Great Sutton
C
Cobby Offline
Enthusiast
Cobby  Offline
Enthusiast
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Great Sutton
Well, that certainly confirms the folk origin of the tune! Sorry still can't help identifying the actual piece which Handel supposedly used the tune for. It has always been the case that composers "borrow" melodies - especially folk tunes - and adapt and develop them in their own works.

Handel's connection with Parkgate is well known, Parkgate being one of the main ports for the crossing to Dublin at that time, where Handel conducted the first ever performance of Messiah.

Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #858904
17th Feb 2014 3:58pm
17th Feb 2014 3:58pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
G
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
G
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
To me, it has a similarity to Londonderry Air. Surprisingly enough, having followed up , the lyrics were written by W.G Rothery, who also wrote lyrics for Handel!

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0rothery%20londonderry%20air&f=false

At the moment, can't find anymore but someone maybe able to tune into the music you have illustrated, and see what they think.

Last edited by granny; 17th Feb 2014 4:00pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #859111
18th Feb 2014 4:15pm
18th Feb 2014 4:15pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Great Sutton
C
Cobby Offline
Enthusiast
Cobby  Offline
Enthusiast
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Great Sutton
So interesting how different perceptions can be! I could hear it straight away as a rousing Engish folk song - almost like a drinking song in style (which would tie with Handel's supposed use of it as a march). Could even envisage a troupe of morris dancers giving it some wellie!

Last edited by Cobby; 18th Feb 2014 4:17pm.
Re: Translate some music [Re: Cobby] #859174
18th Feb 2014 7:23pm
18th Feb 2014 7:23pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
G
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
G
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
Ha ha! You are probably right Cobby as I got rid of my piano only months ago and have sort of done this in my head.
I thought 'march' time was half signature time which would be 2/4 time.
The Londonderry Air is also C signature time, but you obviously know a whole lot more about Handel than myself.
Somehow it seemed to sound (in my head) like a harmony. As it is only in the 'treble clef' would it have been written for an instrument other than piano.
Any more ideas ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #859195
18th Feb 2014 8:42pm
18th Feb 2014 8:42pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Great Sutton
C
Cobby Offline
Enthusiast
Cobby  Offline
Enthusiast
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Great Sutton
Yes, I did it in my head too - so the idea of different perceptions is even more valid.

I certainly couldn't ever claim to be an expert on Handel, just someone who's spent their life singing, playing, listening to and reading about all kinds of music.

Time signature is only half the story - the other important piece of information which the Derek's extract doesn't tell us is speed. So our piece could be the rousing, exciting quick march speed, but could equally be a slower, more melancholy piece along the lines of Londonderry Air. But somehow to me the melody lends itself better to the faster pace. I'll try and spend a bit of time to make some sound files to demonstrate the difference (that way Derek can get to hear his melody too!)

Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #859264
19th Feb 2014 7:29am
19th Feb 2014 7:29am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
G
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
G
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
derek...is there any more of this piece of sheet music? Is there a full page with words like, 'andante', 'allegro', 'moderato' on the top left just before the written music begins?

Look forward to your follow up Cobby. Could be interesting.





Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #859287
19th Feb 2014 9:31am
19th Feb 2014 9:31am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,193
Birkenhead
D
derekdwc Online content OP

Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content OP

Forum Veteran
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,193
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by derekdwc
Handel visited Parkgate quite a few times on his way to Ireland

cobby please read pages 508 and 509 which may help you further
A Glossary of Words used in the County of Cheshire


Granny that's all I've got,click link
SWADDLEDIDAF (from word of day)

Last edited by derekdwc; 19th Feb 2014 9:35am.
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #859293
19th Feb 2014 11:08am
19th Feb 2014 11:08am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
G
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
G
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
Did click the link, but don't know what we are supposed to be looking for, let alone what to click once on the link. All that is visible is 'eggs' of one sort or another. Is the yolk on us?
Please explain, rather than me clicking on it for the rest of the day, in pursuit of happiness. smile

Last edited by granny; 19th Feb 2014 11:11am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #859393
19th Feb 2014 5:35pm
19th Feb 2014 5:35pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,193
Birkenhead
D
derekdwc Online content OP

Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content OP

Forum Veteran
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,193
Birkenhead
click the link then click on 'A Glossary of Words used in the County of Cheshire ' then click the .pdf on the left to view it
the info is on pages 508 and 509

click will take you eggsactly to it

Last edited by derekdwc; 19th Feb 2014 5:37pm.
Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc] #859477
19th Feb 2014 9:09pm
19th Feb 2014 9:09pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
G
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
G
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
Got it, thanks.
Looks like the Derry Air has done an egg flip and dropped off the podium.
After reading all that, it could be like a needle in a haystack.
There is still mention of an 'air',and that is quite encouraging, as I had not read any of it before my own interpretation, which admittedly might be a bit cracked!
Still looking forward to hear what Cobby comes up with.

Word of the day laugh

Last edited by granny; 19th Feb 2014 9:11pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Wilkos paint. help
by muzzy2. 12th Jun 2021 10:06am
Ford Estate 6th, 7th and 8th Avenue?
by alayne108. 10th Jun 2021 9:08pm
Looking for Food delivery driver
by ultimate. 10th Jun 2021 1:26pm
Colin pitchfork
by cools. 7th Jun 2021 9:36pm
Poulton Road, Wallasey
by Soozie. 5th Jun 2021 3:45pm
For Sale & Free
Free chest of drawers
by Heidi123. 15th Jun 2021 2:01pm
puma football boots size 7 and 7.5
by gerry1. 12th Jun 2021 10:57pm
One plus 6 64gb
by ultimate. 10th Jun 2021 9:32am
Nintendo ds lite and Sight training game
by ultimate. 10th Jun 2021 9:13am
Water Butt
by GingerTom. 4th Jun 2021 3:20pm
Member Spotlight
Tatey
Tatey
New Brighton
Posts: 1,455
Joined: April 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
archetype, Wallasey2Wales, Brightstorm, foodforthought, Luke178
13867 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Wilkos paint. help
by muzzy2. 12th Jun 2021 10:06am
Looking for Food delivery driver
by ultimate. 10th Jun 2021 1:26pm
Poulton Road, Wallasey
by Soozie. 5th Jun 2021 3:45pm
New Palace and Adventureland, New Brighton
by mikeeb. 5th Jun 2021 11:08am
Looking for someone that can do car service.
by ultimate. 31st May 2021 9:37am
News : New Topics
Colin pitchfork
by cools. 7th Jun 2021 9:36pm
Dock roads and Bridges
by keef666. 26th May 2021 8:13am
New Enthusiast Forums
Gmail, Drive and Photos may be deleted by Google
by mikeeb. 31st May 2021 1:17pm
UFC Darren Till
by GaryFromWirral. 26th May 2021 10:00pm
Covid vaccinations in Wirral ?
by philmch. 23rd Mar 2021 5:55pm
Pooch perfect
by cools. 20th Feb 2021 10:29am
Willaston
by Erainn. 19th Jun 2020 3:48pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Tue 4:42am
Sunset Tue 9:43pm
Local Time Tue 5:14pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1