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#858469 - 15th Feb 2014 12:38pm Translate some music
derekdwc Offline


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Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 5024
Loc: Birkenhead
Can anybody read this piece of music and tell me where it is in one of Handel's compositions. Came across it as a suggestion that Handel filched it from an old Cheshire song or vice-versa
Sadly I can't read music or it was never taught at school


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Handel.jpg




Edited by derekdwc (15th Feb 2014 12:40pm)

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#858595 - 15th Feb 2014 7:55pm Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
Cobby Offline
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Registered: 28th Nov 2009
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Loc: Great Sutton
Not from any Handel work I'm familiar with and I don't recognise the melody at all, though he did write a huge amount!

eta it's also not really Handel's style, it has quite a 'folky' feel to it


Edited by Cobby (15th Feb 2014 7:57pm)

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#858612 - 15th Feb 2014 9:08pm Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
derekdwc Offline


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Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 5024
Loc: Birkenhead
Handel visited Parkgate quite a few times on his way to Ireland

cobby please read pages 508 and 509 which may help you further
A Glossary of Words used in the County of Cheshire


Edited by derekdwc (15th Feb 2014 9:21pm)

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#858638 - 16th Feb 2014 7:48am Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
Cobby Offline
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Registered: 28th Nov 2009
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Loc: Great Sutton
Well, that certainly confirms the folk origin of the tune! Sorry still can't help identifying the actual piece which Handel supposedly used the tune for. It has always been the case that composers "borrow" melodies - especially folk tunes - and adapt and develop them in their own works.

Handel's connection with Parkgate is well known, Parkgate being one of the main ports for the crossing to Dublin at that time, where Handel conducted the first ever performance of Messiah.

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#858904 - 17th Feb 2014 3:58pm Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14987
Loc: Wirral
To me, it has a similarity to Londonderry Air. Surprisingly enough, having followed up , the lyrics were written by W.G Rothery, who also wrote lyrics for Handel!

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-b22A...air&f=false

At the moment, can't find anymore but someone maybe able to tune into the music you have illustrated, and see what they think.


Edited by granny (17th Feb 2014 4:00pm)
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#859111 - 18th Feb 2014 4:15pm Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
Cobby Offline
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Registered: 28th Nov 2009
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Loc: Great Sutton
So interesting how different perceptions can be! I could hear it straight away as a rousing Engish folk song - almost like a drinking song in style (which would tie with Handel's supposed use of it as a march). Could even envisage a troupe of morris dancers giving it some wellie!


Edited by Cobby (18th Feb 2014 4:17pm)

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#859174 - 18th Feb 2014 7:23pm Re: Translate some music [Re: Cobby]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14987
Loc: Wirral
Ha ha! You are probably right Cobby as I got rid of my piano only months ago and have sort of done this in my head.
I thought 'march' time was half signature time which would be 2/4 time.
The Londonderry Air is also C signature time, but you obviously know a whole lot more about Handel than myself.
Somehow it seemed to sound (in my head) like a harmony. As it is only in the 'treble clef' would it have been written for an instrument other than piano.
Any more ideas ?
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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#859195 - 18th Feb 2014 8:42pm Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
Cobby Offline
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Registered: 28th Nov 2009
Posts: 140
Loc: Great Sutton
Yes, I did it in my head too - so the idea of different perceptions is even more valid.

I certainly couldn't ever claim to be an expert on Handel, just someone who's spent their life singing, playing, listening to and reading about all kinds of music.

Time signature is only half the story - the other important piece of information which the Derek's extract doesn't tell us is speed. So our piece could be the rousing, exciting quick march speed, but could equally be a slower, more melancholy piece along the lines of Londonderry Air. But somehow to me the melody lends itself better to the faster pace. I'll try and spend a bit of time to make some sound files to demonstrate the difference (that way Derek can get to hear his melody too!)

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#859264 - 19th Feb 2014 7:29am Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14987
Loc: Wirral
derek...is there any more of this piece of sheet music? Is there a full page with words like, 'andante', 'allegro', 'moderato' on the top left just before the written music begins?

Look forward to your follow up Cobby. Could be interesting.
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#859287 - 19th Feb 2014 9:31am Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
derekdwc Offline


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Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 5024
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: derekdwc
Handel visited Parkgate quite a few times on his way to Ireland

cobby please read pages 508 and 509 which may help you further
A Glossary of Words used in the County of Cheshire


Granny that's all I've got,click link
SWADDLEDIDAF (from word of day)


Edited by derekdwc (19th Feb 2014 9:35am)

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#859293 - 19th Feb 2014 11:08am Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14987
Loc: Wirral
Did click the link, but don't know what we are supposed to be looking for, let alone what to click once on the link. All that is visible is 'eggs' of one sort or another. Is the yolk on us?
Please explain, rather than me clicking on it for the rest of the day, in pursuit of happiness. smile


Edited by granny (19th Feb 2014 11:11am)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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#859393 - 19th Feb 2014 5:35pm Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
derekdwc Offline


Forum Veteran

Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 5024
Loc: Birkenhead
click the link then click on 'A Glossary of Words used in the County of Cheshire ' then click the .pdf on the left to view it
the info is on pages 508 and 509

click will take you eggsactly to it


Edited by derekdwc (19th Feb 2014 5:37pm)

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#859477 - 19th Feb 2014 9:09pm Re: Translate some music [Re: derekdwc]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14987
Loc: Wirral
Got it, thanks.
Looks like the Derry Air has done an egg flip and dropped off the podium.
After reading all that, it could be like a needle in a haystack.
There is still mention of an 'air',and that is quite encouraging, as I had not read any of it before my own interpretation, which admittedly might be a bit cracked!
Still looking forward to hear what Cobby comes up with.

Word of the day laugh


Edited by granny (19th Feb 2014 9:11pm)
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