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Air raid shelter policy #835071
3rd Nov 2013 8:18pm
3rd Nov 2013 8:18pm
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mikeeb Offline OP

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This is the policy from the Minister of Home Security.
Interesting read

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Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835076
3rd Nov 2013 8:59pm
3rd Nov 2013 8:59pm
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More here
Well there was
It only allows 2MB but this one is is 5 and a half MB busted
Sorry

Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835087
3rd Nov 2013 9:17pm
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This was a couple of days before the last letter

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Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835088
3rd Nov 2013 9:26pm
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These are from WW1 in London


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Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835091
3rd Nov 2013 10:02pm
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This is copied and pasted from a PDF document from 1939 so there will be discrepancies with the the original document and this.
I was going to correct all mistakes but I am off to bed so maybe another day.

I can understand why they built a deep shelter in tranmere for the ship builders but why build one in bidston?
(this is an excerpt from that 5.5MB document)

S E C R E T
Conclusions of the Fifth Meeting of the Civil Defence
(Policy) Committee, held at Richmond Terrace at 11 a.m.
on Friday, 14th April, 1939.

THE SUB-COMMITTEE agreed:-
i) to take note of the report of the Conference convened
by the Lord Privy Seal for the purpose of
advising him upon certain aspects of air raid
shelter policy, and presided over by Lord Hailey
The conclusions of the Conference can be
summarised as follows:-
a) the rejection for technical and general reasons
of any attempt to provide deep "bomb proof"
shelters on a widespread scale for the protection
of the civil population.
(b) the endorsement of the policy of providing in
vulnerable areas dispersed splinter and blast
proof protection as rapidly and on as wide a
scale as possible.
(c) the recommendation, as a supplement to splinter
and blast proof protection, of heavier protection
for personnel engaged in certain essential
defence activities, workers at certain vital
industrial undertakings and (subject to any
modification that may result from Conclusion
(iv)(b) below) for certain skilled workmen and
technicians "whose loss night be irreparable".
The organisations and personnel for which this
heavier protection should be provided to be
defined by the Government.
(ii) that the report, subject to amendment in the light
of Conclusion (iv) below, should be submitted to
Parliament at an early date by the Lord Privy Real
as a -Command Paper, and that the Lord Privy Seal
should at the same time make a statement in the House
of Coiumons on the shelter policy of the Government.
(iii) that a statement should be made, after consultation
with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, based on
acceptance of the principles enunciated in the
report of the Eailey Gohference,
suDjecc -co che proviso (unless the text of
paragraphs 51 and 52 is modified in accordance with
Conclusion (iv) below) that, pending further
investigation, the Government must not be regarded
as committed to the principle of discrimination in
the same establishment in standards of protection foredifferent
categories of personnel when not actually
engaged in their duties.
(iv) to take note that the Lord Privy Seal's Office are
ascertaining before publication of the report whether
the Air Ministry desire that certain passages should
be omitted or modified in the light of military
considerations.
(v)' that the Lord Privy Seal' s Office should take up with
Lord Hailey the possibility of revising the wording
of sections 51 a n d 52 so as to make it clear that
these passages refer to differential standards of
protection for factories and other centres of
activity as units, based on their relative importance
for the conduct of the war, and not for different
categories of workers within a centre of activity.
(vi) that the minister of Health and the i;inister of
Transport should take up with the London Passenger-
Transport Board at once th-:- question of making use
of certain tube stations for Casualty Clearing
Stations; and. that the Lord Privy Seal -should, if
possible, include a reference to this matter in his
statement of policy in the House of Commons, or in
answer to a supplementary Question,
(vii) that the Minister of Health should ascertain the
views of the organisations of the Medical profession
in regard to the suggestion in paragraph 52 of the
report that differential protection should be
provided for surgeons in hospitals.
(viii) that the Report and the proposals as to Government
policy forming the subject of the" statement referred
to in (iii) above should be submitted by the Lord
Privy Seal to the Cabinet.

Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835105
3rd Nov 2013 11:35pm
3rd Nov 2013 11:35pm
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chriskay Offline
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Originally Posted by mikeeb

I can understand why they built a deep shelter in Tranmere for the ship builders but why build one in Bidston?

The Tranmere shelter wasn't built for the exclusive use of Laird's workers; access tickets were issued to many local residents. (I know; my relatives in Olive Mount had them).
As for the Bidston shelters, I suspect they were built because it was relatively easy to do so and they provided accommodation for a large number of people at a modest unit cost.


Carpe diem.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: chriskay] #835122
4th Nov 2013 7:31am
4th Nov 2013 7:31am
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God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: bert1] #835297
5th Nov 2013 1:18pm
5th Nov 2013 1:18pm
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Originally Posted by chriskay
The Tranmere shelter wasn't built for the exclusive use of Laird's workers; access tickets were issued to many local residents. (I know; my relatives in Olive Mount had them).
As for the Bidston shelters, I suspect they were built because it was relatively easy to do so and they provided accommodation for a large number of people at a modest unit cost.


Hi chris
Maybe not solely but was it not the main reason to build the one in Tranmere for the lairds workers?
As for the one in Bidston it may have been easy but would still take up a lot of manpower/time and seemed out of the way from any industry and large population.
As the above letters show they are not favoured due to that reason.
I am probably wrong, lol

Originally Posted by bert1


Hi bert
I have seen that thread and the Germans certainly do a thorough job
Having said that they probably prepared them way before us

Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835299
5th Nov 2013 1:52pm
5th Nov 2013 1:52pm
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God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835303
5th Nov 2013 2:42pm
5th Nov 2013 2:42pm
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shropshire
chriskay Offline
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Originally Posted by mikeeb

Hi chris
Maybe not solely but was it not the main reason to build the one in Tranmere for the lairds workers?
As for the one in Bidston it may have been easy but would still take up a lot of manpower/time and seemed out of the way from any industry and large population.



Certainly, the Laird's workers were lucky that the end of the Storeton/Tranmere ridge was located conveniently close by and they certainly used the shelters.
As far as the Bidston shelters are concerned, they had a capacity of 3000 (half the size of Tranmere) and were, I would guess, within about twenty minutes walk of a large section of the population of the North End. In general, warning of air raids would be at least an hour, as Radar tracked the enemy planes before they even crossed the Channel. A typical brick built street shelter would typically only hold about fifty people and would not survive a near miss, let alone a direct hit. The walls were only a brick and a half (13") thick.
As an aside, I have put on here somewhere pictures of the quarry containing an entrance to the Tranmere shelters showing bricked-up openings where a wheeled anti aircraft gun and ammunition was stored. (this is the quarry behind the garage opposite the top of Green Lane).
http://www.instantstreetview.com/2pj7k8z3cwtytz1r8zr5z2u


Carpe diem.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: chriskay] #835307
5th Nov 2013 2:54pm
5th Nov 2013 2:54pm
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mikeeb Offline OP

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Originally Posted by chriskay

Certainly, the Laird's workers were lucky that the end of the Storeton/Tranmere ridge was located conveniently close by and they certainly used the shelters.


Originally Posted by liverpool echo

The Home Office gave Birkenhead the green light to build the most expensive deep tunnel air raid shelter in the country in the 1940s.

They wanted to protect the irreplaceable Cammell Laird workforce.


Now I am confused
The echo quote was from the link bert gave above which you are proudly mentioned in wink

Regarding the Bidston tunnel, was it actually used?

Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835319
5th Nov 2013 4:04pm
5th Nov 2013 4:04pm
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chriskay Offline
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Well, Mike, you can't believe all you read in the papers. For instance, a quote from the same article:
"Mellwood’s Danny Ambrose said: “We came across the concrete cap to the shaft and one of the residents came over to us and said ‘you’ve hit the tunnel’".
It wasn't a resident, it was me and Pinzgauer.
Mellwood's Danny Ambrose wasn't even there at the time.
Having said that, I'm sure the location of Laird's was one of the main reasons for building the shelters.
As far as Bidston goes, I'm not sure if it was used. Records show that the last bombing of Merseyside was in 1942, but the Bidston shelters were still under construction in 1943. There do seem to be reports of them being used though, although I can't find any proof; maybe someone on Wiki had a relative who used them.


Carpe diem.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: chriskay] #835324
5th Nov 2013 4:55pm
5th Nov 2013 4:55pm
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mikeeb Offline OP

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Originally Posted by chriskay
Well, Mike, you can't believe all you read in the papers.

True, very true.
I should know, I read the star grin

Originally Posted by chriskay
As far as Bidston goes, I'm not sure if it was used. Records show that the last bombing of Merseyside was in 1942, but the Bidston shelters were still under construction in 1943. There do seem to be reports of them being used though, although I can't find any proof; maybe someone on Wiki had a relative who used them.


Its hard to find any info on the Bidston tunnel anywhere.
Having said that, there is not much on the Tranmere shelter either
Most of the info out there regarding these 2 are in this forum


Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835327
5th Nov 2013 5:07pm
5th Nov 2013 5:07pm
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God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835329
5th Nov 2013 5:27pm
5th Nov 2013 5:27pm
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Hehehe!
Thanks bert
Just before I joined here I read all links pointing to them from the bidston tunnel thread on this forum
It took me over 2 days to get to the end clicking on every link in the thread, and that was only part 1
Its why I joined here
If you have any more links regarding this subject that are not linked to this forum I would love to see
Thanks again bert thumbsup

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