WikiWirral Online with you since 2003, fantastic.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,030,905
Topics75,942
Members13,902
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs3
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
25 registered members (8 invisible), 1,512 guests, and305 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Newbie here saying hello
by Omdrolf. 24th Jul 2021 10:14pm
Long time no speak
by SoundLad. 11th Jul 2021 6:51pm
Agro ( Funny )
by GaryFromWirral. 9th Jul 2021 7:19pm
How do I post old photo?
by Longnails. 7th Jul 2021 11:38am
New Wirral History
Assistance required: 19th Century Grange Ward
by ByrneJB. 18th Jul 2021 8:53pm
Pictures of Liverpool buildings being constructed
by mikeeb. 18th Jul 2021 12:10pm
Peel Street (Tranmere)
by mb2496. 31st Dec 2011 12:35am
Calday Grange Grammar For Boys, West Kirby
by . 10th Jun 2007 10:49pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
New Brighton Artwork
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
Topic Replies
Newbie here saying hello
by Omdrolf. 24th Jul 2021 10:14pm
leather settee repairs
by Omdrolf. 24th Jul 2021 10:01pm
New F1 sprint race
by mikeeb. 24th Jul 2021 11:22am
Free tv stand
by Omdrolf. 23rd Jul 2021 9:06pm
Leather Sofa Upholsterer
by Omdrolf. 23rd Jul 2021 8:59pm
Calday Grange Grammar For Boys, West Kirby
by WildswimmerPete. 23rd Jul 2021 6:56pm
Domonic Cummings
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Jul 2021 3:37pm
Is anybody alive out there ?
by Softy_Southerner. 22nd Jul 2021 7:34pm
Bultaco pursang
by BultacoAstro. 22nd Jul 2021 3:19pm
July
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Air raid shelter policy #835071
3rd Nov 2013 8:18pm
3rd Nov 2013 8:18pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
This is the policy from the Minister of Home Security.
Interesting read

Attached Files
Google Ads
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835076
3rd Nov 2013 8:59pm
3rd Nov 2013 8:59pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
More here
Well there was
It only allows 2MB but this one is is 5 and a half MB busted
Sorry

Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835087
3rd Nov 2013 9:17pm
3rd Nov 2013 9:17pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
This was a couple of days before the last letter

Attached Files
0001.pdf (15 downloads)
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835088
3rd Nov 2013 9:26pm
3rd Nov 2013 9:26pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
These are from WW1 in London


Attached Files
WW1.pdf (10 downloads)
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835091
3rd Nov 2013 10:02pm
3rd Nov 2013 10:02pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
This is copied and pasted from a PDF document from 1939 so there will be discrepancies with the the original document and this.
I was going to correct all mistakes but I am off to bed so maybe another day.

I can understand why they built a deep shelter in tranmere for the ship builders but why build one in bidston?
(this is an excerpt from that 5.5MB document)

S E C R E T
Conclusions of the Fifth Meeting of the Civil Defence
(Policy) Committee, held at Richmond Terrace at 11 a.m.
on Friday, 14th April, 1939.

THE SUB-COMMITTEE agreed:-
i) to take note of the report of the Conference convened
by the Lord Privy Seal for the purpose of
advising him upon certain aspects of air raid
shelter policy, and presided over by Lord Hailey
The conclusions of the Conference can be
summarised as follows:-
a) the rejection for technical and general reasons
of any attempt to provide deep "bomb proof"
shelters on a widespread scale for the protection
of the civil population.
(b) the endorsement of the policy of providing in
vulnerable areas dispersed splinter and blast
proof protection as rapidly and on as wide a
scale as possible.
(c) the recommendation, as a supplement to splinter
and blast proof protection, of heavier protection
for personnel engaged in certain essential
defence activities, workers at certain vital
industrial undertakings and (subject to any
modification that may result from Conclusion
(iv)(b) below) for certain skilled workmen and
technicians "whose loss night be irreparable".
The organisations and personnel for which this
heavier protection should be provided to be
defined by the Government.
(ii) that the report, subject to amendment in the light
of Conclusion (iv) below, should be submitted to
Parliament at an early date by the Lord Privy Real
as a -Command Paper, and that the Lord Privy Seal
should at the same time make a statement in the House
of Coiumons on the shelter policy of the Government.
(iii) that a statement should be made, after consultation
with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, based on
acceptance of the principles enunciated in the
report of the Eailey Gohference,
suDjecc -co che proviso (unless the text of
paragraphs 51 and 52 is modified in accordance with
Conclusion (iv) below) that, pending further
investigation, the Government must not be regarded
as committed to the principle of discrimination in
the same establishment in standards of protection foredifferent
categories of personnel when not actually
engaged in their duties.
(iv) to take note that the Lord Privy Seal's Office are
ascertaining before publication of the report whether
the Air Ministry desire that certain passages should
be omitted or modified in the light of military
considerations.
(v)' that the Lord Privy Seal' s Office should take up with
Lord Hailey the possibility of revising the wording
of sections 51 a n d 52 so as to make it clear that
these passages refer to differential standards of
protection for factories and other centres of
activity as units, based on their relative importance
for the conduct of the war, and not for different
categories of workers within a centre of activity.
(vi) that the minister of Health and the i;inister of
Transport should take up with the London Passenger-
Transport Board at once th-:- question of making use
of certain tube stations for Casualty Clearing
Stations; and. that the Lord Privy Seal -should, if
possible, include a reference to this matter in his
statement of policy in the House of Commons, or in
answer to a supplementary Question,
(vii) that the Minister of Health should ascertain the
views of the organisations of the Medical profession
in regard to the suggestion in paragraph 52 of the
report that differential protection should be
provided for surgeons in hospitals.
(viii) that the Report and the proposals as to Government
policy forming the subject of the" statement referred
to in (iii) above should be submitted by the Lord
Privy Seal to the Cabinet.

Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835105
3rd Nov 2013 11:35pm
3rd Nov 2013 11:35pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb

I can understand why they built a deep shelter in Tranmere for the ship builders but why build one in Bidston?

The Tranmere shelter wasn't built for the exclusive use of Laird's workers; access tickets were issued to many local residents. (I know; my relatives in Olive Mount had them).
As for the Bidston shelters, I suspect they were built because it was relatively easy to do so and they provided accommodation for a large number of people at a modest unit cost.


Carpe diem.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: chriskay] #835122
4th Nov 2013 7:31am
4th Nov 2013 7:31am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,316
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,316
tranmere


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: bert1] #835297
5th Nov 2013 1:18pm
5th Nov 2013 1:18pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
Originally Posted by chriskay
The Tranmere shelter wasn't built for the exclusive use of Laird's workers; access tickets were issued to many local residents. (I know; my relatives in Olive Mount had them).
As for the Bidston shelters, I suspect they were built because it was relatively easy to do so and they provided accommodation for a large number of people at a modest unit cost.


Hi chris
Maybe not solely but was it not the main reason to build the one in Tranmere for the lairds workers?
As for the one in Bidston it may have been easy but would still take up a lot of manpower/time and seemed out of the way from any industry and large population.
As the above letters show they are not favoured due to that reason.
I am probably wrong, lol

Originally Posted by bert1


Hi bert
I have seen that thread and the Germans certainly do a thorough job
Having said that they probably prepared them way before us

Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835299
5th Nov 2013 1:52pm
5th Nov 2013 1:52pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,316
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,316
tranmere


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835303
5th Nov 2013 2:42pm
5th Nov 2013 2:42pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb

Hi chris
Maybe not solely but was it not the main reason to build the one in Tranmere for the lairds workers?
As for the one in Bidston it may have been easy but would still take up a lot of manpower/time and seemed out of the way from any industry and large population.



Certainly, the Laird's workers were lucky that the end of the Storeton/Tranmere ridge was located conveniently close by and they certainly used the shelters.
As far as the Bidston shelters are concerned, they had a capacity of 3000 (half the size of Tranmere) and were, I would guess, within about twenty minutes walk of a large section of the population of the North End. In general, warning of air raids would be at least an hour, as Radar tracked the enemy planes before they even crossed the Channel. A typical brick built street shelter would typically only hold about fifty people and would not survive a near miss, let alone a direct hit. The walls were only a brick and a half (13") thick.
As an aside, I have put on here somewhere pictures of the quarry containing an entrance to the Tranmere shelters showing bricked-up openings where a wheeled anti aircraft gun and ammunition was stored. (this is the quarry behind the garage opposite the top of Green Lane).
http://www.instantstreetview.com/2pj7k8z3cwtytz1r8zr5z2u


Carpe diem.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: chriskay] #835307
5th Nov 2013 2:54pm
5th Nov 2013 2:54pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
Originally Posted by chriskay

Certainly, the Laird's workers were lucky that the end of the Storeton/Tranmere ridge was located conveniently close by and they certainly used the shelters.


Originally Posted by liverpool echo

The Home Office gave Birkenhead the green light to build the most expensive deep tunnel air raid shelter in the country in the 1940s.

They wanted to protect the irreplaceable Cammell Laird workforce.


Now I am confused
The echo quote was from the link bert gave above which you are proudly mentioned in wink

Regarding the Bidston tunnel, was it actually used?

Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835319
5th Nov 2013 4:04pm
5th Nov 2013 4:04pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Well, Mike, you can't believe all you read in the papers. For instance, a quote from the same article:
"Mellwood’s Danny Ambrose said: “We came across the concrete cap to the shaft and one of the residents came over to us and said ‘you’ve hit the tunnel’".
It wasn't a resident, it was me and Pinzgauer.
Mellwood's Danny Ambrose wasn't even there at the time.
Having said that, I'm sure the location of Laird's was one of the main reasons for building the shelters.
As far as Bidston goes, I'm not sure if it was used. Records show that the last bombing of Merseyside was in 1942, but the Bidston shelters were still under construction in 1943. There do seem to be reports of them being used though, although I can't find any proof; maybe someone on Wiki had a relative who used them.


Carpe diem.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: chriskay] #835324
5th Nov 2013 4:55pm
5th Nov 2013 4:55pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
Originally Posted by chriskay
Well, Mike, you can't believe all you read in the papers.

True, very true.
I should know, I read the star grin

Originally Posted by chriskay
As far as Bidston goes, I'm not sure if it was used. Records show that the last bombing of Merseyside was in 1942, but the Bidston shelters were still under construction in 1943. There do seem to be reports of them being used though, although I can't find any proof; maybe someone on Wiki had a relative who used them.


Its hard to find any info on the Bidston tunnel anywhere.
Having said that, there is not much on the Tranmere shelter either
Most of the info out there regarding these 2 are in this forum


Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835327
5th Nov 2013 5:07pm
5th Nov 2013 5:07pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,316
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,316
tranmere


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Air raid shelter policy [Re: mikeeb] #835329
5th Nov 2013 5:27pm
5th Nov 2013 5:27pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
M
mikeeb Offline OP

Forum Addict
mikeeb  Offline OP

Forum Addict
M
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,505
birkenhead
Hehehe!
Thanks bert
Just before I joined here I read all links pointing to them from the bidston tunnel thread on this forum
It took me over 2 days to get to the end clicking on every link in the thread, and that was only part 1
Its why I joined here
If you have any more links regarding this subject that are not linked to this forum I would love to see
Thanks again bert thumbsup

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Newbie here saying hello
by Omdrolf. 24th Jul 2021 10:14pm
Leather Sofa Upholsterer
by Omdrolf. 23rd Jul 2021 8:59pm
Domonic Cummings
by mikeeb. 22nd Jul 2021 5:53pm
Fishing in Arrowe park
by swany1965. 20th Jul 2021 11:59pm
Assistance required: 19th Century Grange Ward
by ByrneJB. 18th Jul 2021 8:53pm
For Sale & Free
Free tv stand
by Omdrolf. 23rd Jul 2021 9:06pm
Garmin Drivesmart 51 Satnav - unused
by gerrymoore. 14th Jul 2021 10:15am
Xbox 360 120gb console only £20
by ultimate. 3rd Jul 2021 12:17pm
Leather chaise corner sofa
by stumpyduck. 29th Jun 2021 4:16pm
Ryobi
by madrob. 27th Jun 2021 12:15pm
Member Spotlight
sunnyside
sunnyside
wirral
Posts: 45,151
Joined: April 2010
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
DuaneC, joeltherienz, ACLDN, Livarchy, ByrneJB
13902 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Leather Sofa Upholsterer
by Omdrolf. 23rd Jul 2021 8:59pm
Oliver Place
by Chrishenson1. 14th Jul 2021 10:07pm
Lamp-post replacement daftness
by Greenwood. 7th Jul 2021 12:24pm
Hilbre Island during WW2
by Peter_exWirral. 30th Jun 2021 11:49am
Porch fitters
by gray153. 29th Jun 2021 12:53pm
News : New Topics
Domonic Cummings
by mikeeb. 22nd Jul 2021 5:53pm
Colin pitchfork
by cools. 7th Jun 2021 9:36pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Fishing in Arrowe park
by swany1965. 20th Jul 2021 11:59pm
New F1 sprint race
by mikeeb. 17th Jul 2021 8:14am
Is anybody alive out there ?
by Nathanplatt. 9th Jul 2021 5:11pm
Bultaco pursang
by Bultaco. 13th Mar 2019 12:43pm
Inside The Blood Tub UE - ( Last ever Pictures )
by hoseman. 10th May 2009 1:49pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Sat 5:16am
Sunset Sat 9:21pm
Local Time Sat 10:39pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1