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#806247 - 9th Jul 2013 2:53pm The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract
Mark Online   Reading


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Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21062
Loc: Wirral
After reading an earlier post in the jobs section I decided to dig a little deeper with refrencing zero hour contracts.

ACAS say this. click me

Quote:
There's been a sharp increase in recent years in so-called 'zero-hours' contracts, as employers try to find cost-effective ways of meeting short-term staffing needs.

Increasingly, many companies in the retail and hospitality industries are taking on staff on 'zero-hours' contracts - that is, where people agree to be available for work as and when required, but have no guaranteed hours or times of work. Zero-hours contracts effectively provide employers with a pool of people who are 'on-call' and can be used when the need arises.

There is more to read on the link above.

Im sure I read that the government was looking into them. I seen a job advertised last year with zero hours and was so shocked I even took a picture on my phone too.

What's your views on zero hr contracts
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#806250 - 9th Jul 2013 3:09pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
Sallybear Offline
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Registered: 5th Apr 2009
Posts: 587
Loc: Wirral
With the HMRC bringing in RTI I wouldn't imagine many companies would do this now, having to submit once a month or weekly everyone's worked hours, even if that period they didn't work any hours at all, would just add work to the finance staff.

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#806255 - 9th Jul 2013 3:25pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
RUDEBOX Offline

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Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 19149
Loc: Here.
I read this yesterday and found it interesting and thought provoking.

http://scriptonitedaily.wordpress.com/20...use-conditions/



Zero Hours is discussed about a third down the page.


Edited by RUDEBOX (9th Jul 2013 3:28pm)
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#806258 - 9th Jul 2013 3:35pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Sallybear]
Mark Online   Reading


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Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21062
Loc: Wirral
It was your post that got me thinking about it Rudebox.

Originally Posted By: Sallybear
With the HMRC bringing in RTI I wouldn't imagine many companies would do this now, having to submit once a month or weekly everyone's worked hours, even if that period they didn't work any hours at all, would just add work to the finance staff.



Thats a good point.
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#806262 - 9th Jul 2013 4:20pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
RUDEBOX Offline

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Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 19149
Loc: Here.
Originally Posted By: Mark
It was your post that got me thinking about it Rudebox.
My son ended up in the doo-dah on a zero hour contract at Tulip, over Christmas. On some occasions he would turn up,as advised by his Agency at 5.30am for a 6am shift- only to be turned away because they had the staff for that day (in the queue ahead of him).

He was lucky in the respect that most of the time he had a lift there secured but even so..... to get the bus from Wallasey would have meant being at the bus stop at 4am. Exactly,what the female member was saying on another thread. Hardly ideal for females!!

I assume that demand was higher leading up to Christmas than it is now.
I just felt for those two young men yesterday at the Jobby. If they had said 'sod this' they were probably sanctioned for leaving 'work'- even though there was no work, hence the need to go cap in hand asking for food vouchers and a 'short term advance' for gas and electricity whilst they areas i say sanctioned or waiting for their new jsa claim to be processed.
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#806265 - 9th Jul 2013 4:26pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
_Ste_ Offline


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Registered: 7th Aug 2005
Posts: 16023
Loc: New Brighton
wasnt there something similar to this quite a few years back when people used to q up in liverpool awaiting work on the council bin collections?

the country is going to pot, something needs to be done.
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#806272 - 9th Jul 2013 4:43pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: _Ste_]
Moonstar Offline

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Registered: 2nd Jul 2011
Posts: 1240
Loc: Wirral
It was the norm on the docks when dockers turned up and stood in the pen for work and were selected or not each day.

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#806324 - 9th Jul 2013 7:44pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
ponytail Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 31st Dec 2008
Posts: 578
Loc: wirral
A friend is on a 0-hrs contract and is contracted when needed. Agency staff don't just turn up on site. As he is CRB checked, it is easier to have a 0-hrs contract than to have him constantly applying for his CRB every time a job ends and another starts. Some weeks there is no work but the dole pay the difference. Unfortunately if he works for a longer period then he needs to make a claim as a fresh claimant and start with the dole all over again.
Ultimately, his agency work are all listed on his cv so, hopefully, he will be in permanent employment soon as he will have relevant job experience and classed as being in employment. The 0-hrs contracts can be a useful stop gap in furthering your employment prospects, rather than being on a scheme or on the dole.

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#806394 - 10th Jul 2013 1:33am Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
Guddok Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 9th Jul 2011
Posts: 17
Loc: Purgatory
Hey there,

I'm 18 and work on a zero hours basis as a Catering Assistant for Compass Group. Done correctly, it's not so much 'turn up and hope they need you'. It's more a situation of, when a shift needs doing, and I'm free, I'll do it. The base rate of pay is that of all Catering Assistants at the company, so it is cheaper to bring myself or another zero hours in than an agency Catering Assistant

The contract is pretty ideal for me as I have attended college throughout the week up until recently, so could only work weekends. Now I've finished I have more time to work more shifts if and when I want them. It's got all the positives of 'cash in hand' but with the safety of a contract.

That said, I do understand why some people, particularly if working at a company with a lesser reputation as Compass, would feel a little edgy about these contracts, as I imagine they are quite easy to play

Take Care,
Curt
betacross.tumblr.com

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#806961 - 12th Jul 2013 7:26am Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
ponytail Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 31st Dec 2008
Posts: 578
Loc: wirral
It can also add confusion when you look at holiday and sickness entitlement. A lot of agencies are now offering their 0-hrs staff these paid time-off initiatives, including payment for a Bank Holiday. Sometimes, if you are excellent at your job and a company have 'contracted' you through an agency, you may find they give you a permanent job, thus avoiding the agency fees.

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#808368 - 17th Jul 2013 9:07pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
OutlawBlues Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 31st Aug 2012
Posts: 21
Loc: wirral
I had a 0 hours contract as a waitress/bar tender with an agancy over the holidays while I was at uni. It worked very well for most of the time, I worked when I wanted and didnt have to worry about leaving to go back to uni, you rang them and asked what work there was that week, although as it had only just started out and I was one of the first employees and proved myself to be reliable they often called me up.
If you were asked to work and turned up but didnt need you they had to pay you the minimum of 4 hrs work and the shifts never paid less than 4 hrs even if you worked for two.
The only issue was with travelling hours, sometimes it would take just as long travelling as working.
I currently work casual hours at the Tate, (which interestingly enough is 60% government funded) again it works well that I can do other things and work when I want, I am currently working full time in a temporary position and when that finishes I know I have the Tate to go back to rather than no work.
At the moment there are a lot of part time positions going, with 0 hours contracts you can work part time and top up your pay with a 0 hours contract, working around other commitments.
Done right it has its place

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#808395 - 17th Jul 2013 10:50pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14443
Loc: Wirral
If they are 0 hour contracts, does that mean the companies are exempt from paying their contribution to National Insurance, and is the person contracted to zero hours, having their NI and tax deducted at scource, or do they have to sort that out themselves, as in self employed?

Could a company employ enough employees to cover a working week without paying any NI conributions. If so, it's just another get-out loop hole that will enable more companies to exploit the workforce.


Edited by granny (17th Jul 2013 10:54pm)
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#808402 - 17th Jul 2013 11:20pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: OutlawBlues]
Nomad Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 12th Apr 2010
Posts: 464
Loc: Southern Europe
I am a free lance engineer and work mostly abroad.

A long time ago I had a contract in Manchester (lived in the Wirral at the time)

Sometimes I would wait an hour or so and was not allocated a job and sent home.

I was always paid 4 hours for turning up.

At that time we were also paid extra for overtime and working weekends and bank holidays - alas no longer

-----------------------------------------

but now its getting worse

-----------------------------------------

A long time ago I was 28 so almost 20 years ago. I got a job in Abu Dhabi.

I remember a bloke , very irate, saying that people like me, accepting, in his opinion, a low pay rate, was spoiling it for every one else. I look back at that conversation now and see his point

The job market is hard and people will accept a job because they need it, need the money and pride.

Slowly over time there seems to be a raise in agencies and they offer poor rates, but there is always someone who will accept them

I do not begrudging these people, I would always work as opposed to signing on etc

Agency work, for example, use to pay , lets say 10 an hour, the law was changed so you had to get holiday pay, now said agency will pay you a tenner an hour ( which includes the holiday and bank holidays!) A great law!

I do hope that the people doing this "zero - hour" contracts are paid a decent rate and not the minimum

Nomad


Edited by Nomad (17th Jul 2013 11:21pm)
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#808418 - 17th Jul 2013 11:47pm Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Nomad]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14443
Loc: Wirral
Nomad..
There always seem to be companies that will manage to manipulate to their best advantage, if they can get away with it legally.

I genuinely believe the worst thing to be brought in was 'minimum wage'. Although some companies paid employees a rather low rate of pay at the time, most companies paid fairly well above the minimum rate. As soon as the minimum wage was introduced, along with working tax credit, the companies thought 'great'. Let's re design the jobs and pay minimum wage. The employees will get 'tax credits' to make up the short fall, and everyone will be happy.
Including the companies, because they still made the same profits, paid less wages to their less senior employees but what did they do with the remainder of the money allocated towards wages? Yes, gave big bonuses to the top ?% because they had to use it up.

So it looks as if the then Government of the day paid for everyone in a round about way,and I can't help thinking this 0 hours contact will become another similar joke. I suppose they are classed as employed.Keeps the unemployment figures looking good (better).


Edited by granny (17th Jul 2013 11:49pm)
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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#808474 - 18th Jul 2013 10:29am Re: The rise of the 'zero-hours' contract [Re: Mark]
ponytail Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 31st Dec 2008
Posts: 578
Loc: wirral
All your wages are treated as normal when you work 0-hrs contracts. Initially you may end up paying the 40% tax but this is then paid back to you, they have your tax code and have to pay their contributions as they will be prosecuted if they fail to do so. At the end of the contract or if you stay for further years you are supplied with a P45/60 and can always follow-up anything with the Inland Revenue if you are in doubt as to eg NI or tax payments. Its up to the individual if they want to work for the company or not - trust is a 2-way thing and you can always check out a company beforehand if they are well-established. I agree that the contracts can lead to lots of abuse but sensible people will keep to the right side of the law.

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