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#768644 - 15th Feb 2013 5:32pm security checks?
tinkerbell44 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 7th Apr 2012
Posts: 172
Loc: wirral
just had a gentleman knocking in a yellow high visibility jacket ,saying that there had been numerous break ins in the area and he was offering a security package and was making people aware...I asked him to call back another time and he stated he already had ( whilst lookin at all windows) I explained I lock doors windows etc, and e said "ok as long as you feel safe" and went off down the road not knocking at every house. has anyone else experienced this? is it genuine or a scam??

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#768650 - 15th Feb 2013 5:55pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
rhoobarb2002 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 13th Aug 2011
Posts: 679
Loc: Wirral
Thanks for the warning, had a very pushy woman (sounded East European) at the door the other day trying to get in to check the loft for insulation, despite being told 'no thanks' a few times

The way I see it is; dont trust anyone who cold calls, if it's someone in an official looking capacity (water/gas/electric/etc), even if they have an ID card (easy to make nowadays), tell them they need to get their office to phone first to arrange a date and a time. Don't give them your phone number, their office should have it if you deal with them.

A yellow fluro vest is 3 in Tesos, it's no sign of an official anything.

If it's someone offering you something, you've already got it.

Personally I would say that we have just had a brand new intruder alarm installed that is directly linked to a central station who will call the police. The windows and doors all have high security locks fitted and we have a big dog who has gained a taste for human flesh.


Edited by rhoobarb2002 (15th Feb 2013 5:57pm)

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#768663 - 15th Feb 2013 6:30pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
turnip Offline
Forum Guide

Registered: 15th Dec 2011
Posts: 1017
Loc: wirral
See that really annoys me. Meter readers for the big companies are contracted out with a small number employed by the energy companies for appointments. So in making the meter reader put into the notes to make an appointment you are not only wasting their time and potentially losing their job(if everyone wanted an appointment there'd be no need for meter readers) but you're also losing them money as their bonus is based on the amount of meters they read.

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#768668 - 15th Feb 2013 6:41pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
rhoobarb2002 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 13th Aug 2011
Posts: 679
Loc: Wirral
It really annoys me that scumbags try to con people and pretend to be genuine callers, to either try to steal something or scoping the place to come back later, making it so that no-one can be trusted. Such is the world we live in.

Safety, possesions & property over yours, or anyone elses annoyance everytime I'm afraid.


Edited by rhoobarb2002 (15th Feb 2013 6:42pm)

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#768674 - 15th Feb 2013 6:49pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
turnip Offline
Forum Guide

Registered: 15th Dec 2011
Posts: 1017
Loc: wirral
Okay but if you want and appointment YOU ring your supplier an arrange it with them. Why waste someone's time on coming out to your house when you could make a simple phone call and organise it rather than wasting their time? Or are you just one of those people who enjoy inconveniencing people? You'd be surprised how many people there are.

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#768686 - 15th Feb 2013 7:04pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
rhoobarb2002 Offline
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Registered: 13th Aug 2011
Posts: 679
Loc: Wirral
Waste time coming to my house?? Correct me if I am wrong, meter readers go up and down the whole road, not just to one property, so its not really a waste of their time is it?

They are wasting their own time, instead of making it all 'call first', they go on the hope that by calling out of the blue that someone will be in that can deal with them, during a work day!

How many on their 'route' happen to be in at the time of calling? Less than %50 I would say, THAT is a huge waste of time.

And no, I do not enjoy inconveniencing people, but neither will I risk safety and security on a sloppy system just to make their quota. If that is invonveniencing, then so be it.

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#768688 - 15th Feb 2013 7:10pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
turnip Offline
Forum Guide

Registered: 15th Dec 2011
Posts: 1017
Loc: wirral
No meter readers do not 'go up and down the whole road' they go to the houses who use the energy supplier they are working for on that day. Which can often mean 1 house per road. It's not the meter readers who make the system and yet it is them who suffer from people like you. Too lazy to make a phone call to request that it is read by appointment. Which the reader does not get paid to put in the notes so if you want it done do it yourself rather than expecting other people todo it for you. So infuriating.

And as for the calling during the day some meter readers actually work specified evening shifts to get people when they're in and yet those people who are out all day moan that they are calling late. As if they're supposed to be able to do their job from outside a property.

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#768689 - 15th Feb 2013 7:11pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
Finney Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 22nd Feb 2012
Posts: 414
Loc: here & there....
Tinkerbell, I did see 3 people in high vis vests with ADT on the back of them about 5pm in the Union Street / St Pauls Road area of Rock Ferry. They looked official but always check their ID cards and if in doubt contact their company. I never discuss deals on the doorstep and tell them that if I require a service I will get a company that I choose..

Rhoobarb, I had a chap knock at my door a few weeks ago, he had a small folded ladder under his arm, a clipboard and a blue hi vis vest. Told me he had to check that my loft insulation had been fitted correctly. Told him it had been correctly fitted and he wasnt coming in, he checked his clipboard and said yes the fitters you had are a good team but I still need to check it. Told him to jog on and closed the door, No fitters had been near my loft to fit anything as it didnt need doing.......

ALWAYS BEWARE OF SCAMMERS AND CHECK ID CARDS>>>>>>>

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#768698 - 15th Feb 2013 7:36pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
tinkerbell44 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 7th Apr 2012
Posts: 172
Loc: wirral
thanks Finney..even if they are a legit company I believe it's wrong to say " there have been a number of intrusions in the area" just as a sales pitch, when this is not the case at all. COLD CALLERS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED!

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#768702 - 15th Feb 2013 7:47pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
Katryn Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 11th Jan 2010
Posts: 413
Loc: Birkenhead
I had ADT alarms people knocking at mine today asked them to come back in an hour to speak to hubby but they didnt.
They said as there had been a rise in break in's in the area they where offering a package.
This was Peel Avenue estate aswell.
Apparently a few people on the estate have been interested in what they where offering but like i say they didnt call back.


Edited by Katryn (15th Feb 2013 7:49pm)

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#768711 - 15th Feb 2013 8:18pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
Finney Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 22nd Feb 2012
Posts: 414
Loc: here & there....
Katrn, They do have an offer at the moment 99 for a basic alarm, supplied and fitted. Im sure you have to pay a monthly monitoring fee as well so if the alarm is activated it will flag up in their control centre. They have an office in wavertree 0151 551 4000

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#768717 - 15th Feb 2013 8:49pm Re: security checks? [Re: turnip]
rhoobarb2002 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 13th Aug 2011
Posts: 679
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: turnip
No meter readers do not 'go up and down the whole road' they go to the houses who use the energy supplier they are working for on that day. Which can often mean 1 house per road.


So they do go up and down the road to the houses that are supplied by them.

1 house per road??? Your stats source to back this claim up?

I'm not going to call bull on this, yet.

Originally Posted By: turnip
It's not the meter readers who make the system and yet it is them who suffer from people like you.


They do not make the system, correct. But they are part of it.

So this system also makes them suffer from those people who are out when they cold call too??(which is the same situation as saying, 'no, please call') Oh the humanity! Oh cruel fate!

Originally Posted By: turnip
Too lazy to make a phone call to request that it is read by appointment.


At no point did I make this claim, too lazy to read what I actually put perhaps? It doesn't have to be by appointment, I would even be fine with 'call first' when they are in the area, it is for verification that they are who they say they are, not to waste their time or deny them a job!

A mobile phone is all it takes wink

Originally Posted By: turnip
Which the reader does not get paid to put in the notes so if you want it done do it yourself rather than expecting other people to do it for you.


So what your saying is we should contact the companies to put a little note saying call first or by appointment because they don't get paid? How does that help the readers get paid?

Let's pretend for a moment I did indeed say I was too lazy, THEY want it done, THEY want access to my home, so in all fairness THEY can do the leg work, almost sounds like a job.

Originally Posted By: turnip
So infuriating.


Indeed, but I get by, day by day.

Originally Posted By: turnip
And as for the calling during the day some meter readers actually work specified evening shifts to get people when they're in and yet those people who are out all day moan that they are calling late.


I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I have never had or even been offered evening visits, so I suspect the 'some' means 'a small few'.

Originally Posted By: turnip
As if they're supposed to be able to do their job from outside a property.


Maybe they should have called first? wink



I'm not going to go round with you on this, this is obviously a big drama for you and my keen senses are telling me you are or were a meter reader. Guilt trips of 'they don't get paid/who will provide for their little ones?!?' does not come close to working when it involves unknown people entering my house, possibly under false identification, sorry.

Its an option available to be called/by appointment first, my suggestion would be take it if you are concerned/worried/live on your own/infirm/elderly/disabled/etc. By all means, as turnip would like, call them first.

Originally Posted By: Finney
Rhoobarb, I had a chap knock at my door a few weeks ago, he had a small folded ladder under his arm, a clipboard and a blue hi vis vest. Told me he had to check that my loft insulation had been fitted correctly. Told him it had been correctly fitted and he wasnt coming in, he checked his clipboard and said yes the fitters you had are a good team but I still need to check it. Told him to jog on and closed the door, No fitters had been near my loft to fit anything as it didnt need doing.......

ALWAYS BEWARE OF SCAMMERS AND CHECK ID CARDS>>>>>>>


Indeed, unfortunately I was in the shower at the time and my wife answered who is disabled and easily intimidated. The woman kept trying to come in offering free this, free that, but she needed to check the loft! My wife did manage to persuade her to come back another day, even after being told 4-5 times, no thanks!

I don't know what the woman was wearing or what sort of 'ID' she had, but she didn't even have any ladders! Good luck checking loft insulation without ladders!

Whether it be aggressively pushy sales people or con artists, they are all scum preying on easy targets.

That being said, no-one comes in without a prior appointment or phone call. I will not risk it.


Edited by rhoobarb2002 (15th Feb 2013 8:51pm)

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#768733 - 15th Feb 2013 9:28pm Re: security checks? [Re: tinkerbell44]
turnip Offline
Forum Guide

Registered: 15th Dec 2011
Posts: 1017
Loc: wirral
Okay I'm not going to waste too much time on you so ill make it short
1. My 'stats' are that funnily enough I'm a meter reader.
2. We are not given the telephone numbers of the customers unless they request we are given that info. We are there to read the meter which is ultimately the property of national grid.
3. As for your sarcy little comment of 'almost sounds like a job' can I just point out that if your meter is not read in a certain period of time due I refused access (which is what you're effectively doing) the energy company will just get a warrant and come round with the police to access the meter. Happens all the time, trust me.

Now I'm not going to waste any more time.


Edited by turnip (15th Feb 2013 9:28pm)

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#768738 - 15th Feb 2013 9:30pm Re: security checks? [Re: turnip]
rhoobarb2002 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 13th Aug 2011
Posts: 679
Loc: Wirral
I had an inkling wink

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#768749 - 15th Feb 2013 9:42pm Re: security checks? [Re: Finney]
rhoobarb2002 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 13th Aug 2011
Posts: 679
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: Finney
Katrn, They do have an offer at the moment 99 for a basic alarm, supplied and fitted. Im sure you have to pay a monthly monitoring fee as well so if the alarm is activated it will flag up in their control centre. They have an office in wavertree 0151 551 4000


Its been a little while since I fitted alarms, I dont think much has changed. ADT fitting alarms for 99 is at a big loss for them, they get their money back through annual maintenance contract and repairs.

Basically you have 3 options when going for an alarm. (not including, poor quality, B&Q DIY ones)

1, One Off Payment Alarm System - Bells/Sirens only
You can have alarms fitted at a one off cost, this will only give you a siren/bells, perhaps if you pay extra, maybe even an alarm system that can SMS msg to your mobile via your phone line.

The Pros:
-One off payment, no monthly/annual charges.
-Alarm bell boxes are a good deterrent, something like 80-90% of burgled houses do not have an alarm.

The Cons:
-Much higher initial install cost, the company aren't getting a monthly/annual fee
-No change in home insurance premiums, as alarms need to be certified to qualify, to be certified they must have an annual maintenance which will give you a certificate.
-Not connected to a central station monitoring, so other than an SMS/phone call based alarm, if your neighbors are not the neighborly type, its just going to make a noise and flash its lights.
-This will be a lot more than 99 as they make their money from the monthly/annual charges and repair bills.

2, Annually Maintained Alarm System - Bells/Sirens only.
You can have alarms fitted with a annual maintenance included, this will still only give you a siren/bells, again, maybe if you pay extra, maybe even an alarm system that can SMS msg or telephone your mobile via your phone line.

The Pros:
-Smaller (maybe!) initial payment.
-Alarm bell boxes are a good deterrent, something like 80-90% of burgled houses do not have an alarm.
-Possibly lower insurance premiums as you will receive a certificate stating that your alarm is properly installed and maintained. (Only valid for as long as you keep paying the maintenance)

(IIRC the maintenance fee was around 35pa +VAT)

The Cons:
-Monthly or annual maintenance fee.
-Not connected to a central station monitoring, so other than an SMS/phone call based alarm, if your neighbors are not the neighborly type, its just going to make a noise and flash its lights.

3, Annually Maintained Alarm System - Bells/Sirens and Monitoring.
You can have alarms fitted with a annual maintenance and monitoring included, this will give you bells & sirens as well as a link to a 24/365 central monitoring station who will inform up to 4 keyholders of your choice that the alarm has been activated.

The Pros:
-Maintenance visit twice a year instead of once.
-Central station monitoring so people are actually informed.
-Alarm bell boxes are a good deterrent, something like 80-90% of burgled houses do not have an alarm.
-Possibly even lower insurance premiums as you will receive a certificate stating that your alarm is properly installed and maintained and monitored. (The monitoring and certificate are only valid for as long as you keep paying the maintenance)

The Cons:
-More equipment to install = higher initial payment.
-Higher maintenance fee.
-Monthly monitoring fee.

There are different levels of monitoring with varying degrees of cost.

It's all just a case of how much you want to pay initially and long term.

What I will say is monitoring is not cheap.

Just a note about alarms in case you are wondering:

No alarms (apart from some high risk commercial/government types) are allowed to directly call the police. The alarm contacts, or is monitored by, a central station. The central station can call a keyholder, and the police (depending on your monitoring cover level) the police have a 3 strike false alarm rule, after 3 false alarms it is keyholder response only.

By law an alarm is only allowed to ring its exterior siren/bells for a maximum of 20 minutes. After that, only flashing lights.


Hope that helps, things might have changed since I was an installer, so as a rough guide only smile


Edited by rhoobarb2002 (15th Feb 2013 9:45pm)

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