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#721951 - 3rd Sep 2012 10:14pm Wirral Robbery
joalex
Unregistered


according to recent News it has been brought to the publics attention that the mersey ferry is not making any profit and looks to the tunnel toll fee pot for a handout. I have not mentioned this subject as I thought someone else may have. I am shocked that this has been over looked.

before the tunnels were built we had a ferry system that operated with precision & skill. The ferry provided services that would take you further than the current ones.

I expect a proportion of the mersey tunnels profits to be handed back to mersey ferries. the opening of two tunnels has robbed the wirral region dearly and still does to the present day. if both tunnels closed, the ferry would make profit.

I would also like mersey ferries to reinstate & create services that would cover most of the wirral region, and maybe some parts of north wales.

this may seem a little far fetched however the isle of mann steam packet company sails past most of north wales on the liverpool to dublin crossing without making a single stop.

in my opinion more money should leave the mersey tunnel pot to compensate for the robbery of the wirral region. this would contribute towards rebuilding old ferry terminals & landing stages and creating new ones.

I view the ferries as an important ingredient for our economy as a whole and think the time has come to look more in depth at mersey tunnels accounts to establish how those profits are spent.

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#721967 - 3rd Sep 2012 11:07pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14999
Loc: Wirral
Hard to understand why this is under the heading of 'Wirral Robbery', almost missed it.
If Mersey Ferries are making an annual loss of 1 million, (how many years is that relating to) The terminal at Pier Head cost millions not so very long ago, they seemed to be able to manage that. The improvements at Woodside have also cost a fair fortune. The re-vamp and Spaceport at Seacombe was no cheap deal. So if the passengers do not use the Ferries, what can Mersey Travel do? Re-building old ferry terminals is not an option I shouldn't think if they haven't got the money now anyway.
What stands out to me, is the strange time to make this anouncement. Somehow, my thoughts turn to the possibility that Mersey Travel are putting out 'feelers' to get reaction and I believe, that the Ferries will be sold off to a private company, which could well be Peel Holdings or alternatively, a French company.
You may think it's a mad idea but the Ferries have made big losses for donkey's years and maybe we should be asking why?
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#721971 - 3rd Sep 2012 11:20pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
nidgynoo Offline
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Registered: 28th Feb 2011
Posts: 294
Loc: wallasey
A hell of a lot of people were turned away yesterday at Seacombe and I'm guessing Woodside too between 12pm and 3.30pm because of pre-booked cruises..(they had 2 boats for this)Why they couldn't of used the other ferry as a direct service even for an hour before the the tall ships left I don't know? Would of made quite a bit of money..there were a lot of disgruntled people including families trying to get over to Liverpool yesterday.

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#721973 - 3rd Sep 2012 11:37pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: nidgynoo]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14999
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: nidgynoo
A hell of a lot of people were turned away yesterday at Seacombe and I'm guessing Woodside too between 12pm and 3.30pm because of pre-booked cruises..(they had 2 boats for this)Why they couldn't of used the other ferry as a direct service even for an hour before the the tall ships left I don't know? Would of made quite a bit of money..there were a lot of disgruntled people including families trying to get over to Liverpool yesterday.

That's one good example nidgynoo. Possibly the third boat may have been in dock, without a full crew. Things not being thought through properly but I could be wrong.
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#722002 - 4th Sep 2012 9:33am Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: granny]
8HBob Offline
Addict

Registered: 23rd Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Loc: Pensby
It's called incompetent management. They're overloaded with management staff who don't have the drive or ability to realise the potential of what they've got.
The money wasted on the U-Boat should have been used for something worthwhile, not to mention the eyesore at the Pier Head.

Bob.

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#722069 - 4th Sep 2012 4:39pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: 8HBob]
cookiemonster Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 17th Jul 2009
Posts: 17
Loc: wirral
not suprised they are losing money the prices they charge. 4.70 from woodside to liverpool, it's 1.50 through the tunnel or 2.30 on the train (talk about pricing yourself out of business).

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#722071 - 4th Sep 2012 5:02pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: cookiemonster]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: cookiemonster
not suprised they are losing money the prices they charge. 4.70 from woodside to liverpool, it's 1.50 through the tunnel or 2.30 on the train (talk about pricing yourself out of business).


Yes, ridiculous price. 4.70 gets you an all areas Saveaway which includes buses and trains as well, and as many trips on the ferry as you want.
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#722085 - 4th Sep 2012 5:47pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
joalex
Unregistered


the refurb at pier head was needed in order to become a port of call & boost the tourism industry. several areas in wirral have the potential to reap the rewards of the mersey and its tourism industry that the council spends alot of money on promoting. I know what beach I would rather park my deck chair on & I think the wirral region is well placed to take advantage of this. if holidaymakers, tourists & visitors to liverpool had easy accessible, available services and usable routes to use wirral facilities then the increased need for local services & facilities within local communities could increase further by demand. this could lead to the creation of work for local people who are unemployed. its seems a little strange that we are almost encircled by an outstanding coastline that is not utilised to the full potential & compared to liverpool, it appears that we are being shortchanged, not just in services we rely on from mersey ferries, but also lack of investment, services and support from the council for an industry that it so heavily promotes to capture a worldwide audience as a top ten tourist destination to stay & visit in europe.

I personally think that at least half of mersey tunnels profits should be used to support the river mersey services and facilities. I view the provisions and services of such facilities were they exsist as an important ingredient for any economy. ferries play an important role in delivering service end users to the hidden destinations.

the mersey ferry losses of a milliion pounds as recently reported is in need for one urgent thing, and that is change. the turnover is to low and the overheads are to high which has caused this huge profit loss but this would have been known six months ago.

most tourists & visitors to liverpool will go on a ferry but dont get to see beyond seacombe & woodside unless they are staying for a couple of days & manage to navigate the route via bus or train. the wirral wind has as much to offer as liverpool and its a shame some tourists & visitors dont get the chance to visit, explore, stay & shop in wirral.

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#722111 - 4th Sep 2012 8:03pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
8HBob Offline
Addict

Registered: 23rd Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Loc: Pensby
The refurb at the Pier Head merely required a ticket office , shop & cafe which could have been incorporated into a single-storey building, designed to be in keeping with its surroundings & not the monstrosity that they built.

Bob.

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#722112 - 4th Sep 2012 8:03pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
stu6278 Offline
Member

Registered: 20th Sep 2010
Posts: 73
Loc: New Brighton
Originally Posted By: joalex
I personally think that at least half of mersey tunnels profits should be used to support the river mersey services and facilities.


You make some good points but I think you're wrong on that one. First rule of economics is pay off your debts. Mersey Tunnel's profits should go to pay off their debts as number 1 priority long before they start getting milked further as a cash cow by the ferries!

I understand the importance of public transport, and to some extend the subsidies afforded it but that should come from general taxation. It's not fair to expect drivers using a certain route every day to bankroll your ferries.

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#722139 - 4th Sep 2012 10:13pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: joalex
it appears that we are being shortchanged, not just in services we rely on from mersey ferries,


The point is, I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who rely on the Mersey ferries today. I can still remember when it was a major commuter service, with a ferry from Woodside every ten minutes, and a fare of 2d. (old money).
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Carpe diem.

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#722141 - 4th Sep 2012 10:33pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
RUDEBOX Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 19265
Loc: Here.
Chris, judging by the Seacombe Ferry carpark i think that the shuttle service, at peak times is still well used.

However, how popular is the Cruise during term time week? Hmmm.
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#722144 - 4th Sep 2012 11:11pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: chriskay]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14999
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: chriskay
Originally Posted By: joalex
it appears that we are being shortchanged, not just in services we rely on from mersey ferries,


The point is, I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who rely on the Mersey ferries today. I can still remember when it was a major commuter service, with a ferry from Woodside every ten minutes, and a fare of 2d. (old money).


Blimey Chris! Was that two, old one penny coins,the ones with Britannia on the reverse side and equivilent to 5p in 2012?

The following is taken from Wikipedia to give an idea of pasenger numbers 40 years ago.

"Compounded with the opening of the Kingsway road tunnel on 28 June 1971 and a further decline in passenger numbers (only 4,000-5,000 a day), the future of the service was uncertain. It was sentimental, rather than economical grounds which resulted in the retention of the ferries, after much public protest to keep them". ......
-----------------------------------------------------------------

The difficulty, or one of them I believe is the Woodside Terminal. The fact that our dear King Edward III granted the Royal Charter back in 1330, the ferry service has to be run from Woodside by law. I think they may well try to get that overturned. Woodside probably makes less money than either of the other two terminals. Seacombe has free parking, due to the fact they received funding for the car park and therefore cannot charge.They can charge at Woodside, so it makes all things more expensive to cross the river but the employees of the CSA used to take up many of the car parking spaces and maybe still do. Years ago ,Mersey Travel for some unknown reason ,finished the service of the little electric buses to the ferry from the centre of the town.
They also finihed the morning commuter service to cut costs but they still have to keep Woodside going.If they didn't , I believe that the terminal would have been closed long before now.
The shop and cafe at Liverpool Pier Head I believe are franchised, as is the cafe at Woodside.
Now reducing the possiblity of passengers, then the last option is to reduce services even more. I for one am quite convinced this has all been well thought out and manipulated over a number of years.Otherwise it would seem there are a load of plonkers sitting in high positions.
It makes me very cross when (I think I've mentioned before)WMBC was granted 10million between 1999 and 2004 to be spent on Birkenhead Tourism. So, what did they do with it and why hasn't it worked for the town and the ferry? It's not even 10 years ago.

Yo Alex, it is not generally possible to rob Peter to pay Paul , although under ownership and management of Mersey Travel, the tunnels and ferries are two different companies.


Edited by granny (4th Sep 2012 11:17pm)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#722147 - 4th Sep 2012 11:24pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
joalex
Unregistered


repaying any debt should remain at the top of any business agenda & I personally think mersey tunnels should use one quarter of the other half of its profit pot to repay this debt, leaving a remaining quarter to cover the operational costs.

according to the recent publication a longstanding agreement requires mersey tunnels to subsidise mersey failing ferrys & always will.

I think we of wirral should ensure that wirral gets the most out of mersey ferries as we are funding the failing ferry.

I also think we of wirral should ensure that mersey failing ferries is managed & operated in a manner that fairly distributes an industry income stream to the hidden destinations.

failing ferry or no failing ferry is open for debate. if we have no ferry what will we have instead? will half or any of the mersey tunnels profit pot we as a region pay into be invested in wirral?

we of wirral deserve a little more and should demand a little more.

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#722149 - 4th Sep 2012 11:40pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14999
Loc: Wirral
Well Yo Alex, I would suggest you either make an appointment with Frank Field or get your concerns and ideas published in our local press, because none of us on Wikiwirral can do anything about it.We can post our thoughts but so far as ideas are concerned, you are obviously the one who can see a future for the ferries in so many different ways. I personally can't see much improvement from the said situation, unless outside companies come into play.
Maybe the council will sell another asset, the Priory, to which the Royal Charter was granted, then it wouldn't be the responsibility of Mersey Travel to keep Woodide Ferry operating.
Maybe action should start now to protect it, rather than waiting until the possible dreaded dead is done. No good shouting when it's too late. If anyone knows what might be on the agenda it's Frank Field
B the way, where are the hidden destinations?
There was a Tour Bus operated a few years back, which was a miserable failure. It could have gone to the 'hidden destinations' such as Brimstage, Wirral Country Park, West Kirby Parkgate, Ness Gardens for example, but no, it did a picturesque tour of the A41 past CammelLairds and so on. More wasted money.


Edited by granny (4th Sep 2012 11:46pm)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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