WikiWirral values you and your opinion.
Forum Stats
12247 Members
65 Forums
72883 Topics
982463 Posts
96 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
76 registered (11kendo, 12 invisible), 1721 Guests and 341 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
Incident at Westminster 778
What happened to Tranmere car bootie? 622
Martin Mcguinness dies 582
Alloys refurb and colour change. The Wheel Deal. 496
File too large 425
Council tax bill for this year 2017 413
British troops to Estonia 374
Has anyone fished 329
1882 Plan of the borough of Birkenhead and Wards 318
Offset number plates 308
New General Forums
Mannequin Challenge AKA MRI Scan
by fish5133
45 minutes 37 seconds ago
Surely the most honest add.....
by buddy
20th Mar 2017 5:43pm
Happy Birthday DIZDAZDOZ
by snowhite
19th Mar 2017 4:24pm
My old friend the fox
by Dilly
18th Mar 2017 11:15am
New Wirral History
William Bernard's building, Birkenhead
by yoller
20th Mar 2017 4:27pm
1882 Plan of the borough of Birkenhead and Wards
by Dave_Wood
19th Mar 2017 11:57am
New Brighton Coop
by Mike_White
9th Mar 2017 12:48pm
Tranmere High School for Girls 1882 Chesnut Grove
by sarah708
6th Mar 2017 8:23pm
Whetstone Lane, Birkenhead
by MoretonExpat
6th Mar 2017 8:04am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Birkenhead Transport Museum 24th Feb 2017
fireworks on the Mersey last night
Topic Replies
Has Talktalk been hacked yet again?
by fish5133
Today at 10:57 AM
Incident at Westminster
by fish5133
Today at 10:31 AM
Offset number plates
by Gibbo
Today at 09:57 AM
What song are you listening to?
by eggandchips
Today at 09:04 AM
'March' Photo Competition.
by fish5133
Yesterday at 08:53 PM
706 Plough Inn 25and 27 Breck Road Wallasey
by tigertiger1953
Yesterday at 04:25 PM
What are you eating today?
by Dilly
Yesterday at 01:44 PM
Genuine Canada Goose Men's Chilliwack Jacket - L
by Liverpooltiger
Yesterday at 01:14 PM
It's Broken : Forum Update
by lollipop
Yesterday at 08:53 AM
March
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Lee and Cragg Quarries - Bacup
by Mark
Yesterday at 07:43 AM
Rufford Old Hall
by diggingdeeper
13th Mar 2017 9:58am
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#721951 - 3rd Sep 2012 10:14pm Wirral Robbery
joalex
Unregistered


according to recent News it has been brought to the publics attention that the mersey ferry is not making any profit and looks to the tunnel toll fee pot for a handout. I have not mentioned this subject as I thought someone else may have. I am shocked that this has been over looked.

before the tunnels were built we had a ferry system that operated with precision & skill. The ferry provided services that would take you further than the current ones.

I expect a proportion of the mersey tunnels profits to be handed back to mersey ferries. the opening of two tunnels has robbed the wirral region dearly and still does to the present day. if both tunnels closed, the ferry would make profit.

I would also like mersey ferries to reinstate & create services that would cover most of the wirral region, and maybe some parts of north wales.

this may seem a little far fetched however the isle of mann steam packet company sails past most of north wales on the liverpool to dublin crossing without making a single stop.

in my opinion more money should leave the mersey tunnel pot to compensate for the robbery of the wirral region. this would contribute towards rebuilding old ferry terminals & landing stages and creating new ones.

I view the ferries as an important ingredient for our economy as a whole and think the time has come to look more in depth at mersey tunnels accounts to establish how those profits are spent.

Top
Local News : Advertising
Click me for more Information......


Looking for a Service / Tradesman? Look in our Local Business Directory. Click Me
#721967 - 3rd Sep 2012 11:07pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13974
Loc: Wirral
Hard to understand why this is under the heading of 'Wirral Robbery', almost missed it.
If Mersey Ferries are making an annual loss of £1 million, (how many years is that relating to) The terminal at Pier Head cost £millions not so very long ago, they seemed to be able to manage that. The improvements at Woodside have also cost a fair fortune. The re-vamp and Spaceport at Seacombe was no cheap deal. So if the passengers do not use the Ferries, what can Mersey Travel do? Re-building old ferry terminals is not an option I shouldn't think if they haven't got the money now anyway.
What stands out to me, is the strange time to make this anouncement. Somehow, my thoughts turn to the possibility that Mersey Travel are putting out 'feelers' to get reaction and I believe, that the Ferries will be sold off to a private company, which could well be Peel Holdings or alternatively, a French company.
You may think it's a mad idea but the Ferries have made big losses for donkey's years and maybe we should be asking why?
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#721971 - 3rd Sep 2012 11:20pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
nidgynoo Offline
Addict

Registered: 28th Feb 2011
Posts: 294
Loc: wallasey
A hell of a lot of people were turned away yesterday at Seacombe and I'm guessing Woodside too between 12pm and 3.30pm because of pre-booked cruises..(they had 2 boats for this)Why they couldn't of used the other ferry as a direct service even for an hour before the the tall ships left I don't know? Would of made quite a bit of money..there were a lot of disgruntled people including families trying to get over to Liverpool yesterday.

Top
#721973 - 3rd Sep 2012 11:37pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: nidgynoo]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13974
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: nidgynoo
A hell of a lot of people were turned away yesterday at Seacombe and I'm guessing Woodside too between 12pm and 3.30pm because of pre-booked cruises..(they had 2 boats for this)Why they couldn't of used the other ferry as a direct service even for an hour before the the tall ships left I don't know? Would of made quite a bit of money..there were a lot of disgruntled people including families trying to get over to Liverpool yesterday.

That's one good example nidgynoo. Possibly the third boat may have been in dock, without a full crew. Things not being thought through properly but I could be wrong.
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#722002 - 4th Sep 2012 9:33am Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: granny]
8HBob Offline
Addict

Registered: 23rd Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Loc: Pensby
It's called incompetent management. They're overloaded with management staff who don't have the drive or ability to realise the potential of what they've got.
The money wasted on the U-Boat should have been used for something worthwhile, not to mention the eyesore at the Pier Head.

Bob.

Top
#722069 - 4th Sep 2012 4:39pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: 8HBob]
cookiemonster Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 17th Jul 2009
Posts: 17
Loc: wirral
not suprised they are losing money the prices they charge. £4.70 from woodside to liverpool, it's £1.50 through the tunnel or £2.30 on the train (talk about pricing yourself out of business).

Top
#722071 - 4th Sep 2012 5:02pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: cookiemonster]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: cookiemonster
not suprised they are losing money the prices they charge. £4.70 from woodside to liverpool, it's £1.50 through the tunnel or £2.30 on the train (talk about pricing yourself out of business).


Yes, ridiculous price. £4.70 gets you an all areas Saveaway which includes buses and trains as well, and as many trips on the ferry as you want.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#722085 - 4th Sep 2012 5:47pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
joalex
Unregistered


the refurb at pier head was needed in order to become a port of call & boost the tourism industry. several areas in wirral have the potential to reap the rewards of the mersey and its tourism industry that the council spends alot of money on promoting. I know what beach I would rather park my deck chair on & I think the wirral region is well placed to take advantage of this. if holidaymakers, tourists & visitors to liverpool had easy accessible, available services and usable routes to use wirral facilities then the increased need for local services & facilities within local communities could increase further by demand. this could lead to the creation of work for local people who are unemployed. its seems a little strange that we are almost encircled by an outstanding coastline that is not utilised to the full potential & compared to liverpool, it appears that we are being shortchanged, not just in services we rely on from mersey ferries, but also lack of investment, services and support from the council for an industry that it so heavily promotes to capture a worldwide audience as a top ten tourist destination to stay & visit in europe.

I personally think that at least half of mersey tunnels profits should be used to support the river mersey services and facilities. I view the provisions and services of such facilities were they exsist as an important ingredient for any economy. ferries play an important role in delivering service end users to the hidden destinations.

the mersey ferry losses of a milliion pounds as recently reported is in need for one urgent thing, and that is change. the turnover is to low and the overheads are to high which has caused this huge profit loss but this would have been known six months ago.

most tourists & visitors to liverpool will go on a ferry but dont get to see beyond seacombe & woodside unless they are staying for a couple of days & manage to navigate the route via bus or train. the wirral wind has as much to offer as liverpool and its a shame some tourists & visitors dont get the chance to visit, explore, stay & shop in wirral.

Top
#722111 - 4th Sep 2012 8:03pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
8HBob Offline
Addict

Registered: 23rd Mar 2009
Posts: 205
Loc: Pensby
The refurb at the Pier Head merely required a ticket office , shop & cafe which could have been incorporated into a single-storey building, designed to be in keeping with its surroundings & not the monstrosity that they built.

Bob.

Top
#722112 - 4th Sep 2012 8:03pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
stu6278 Offline
Member

Registered: 20th Sep 2010
Posts: 73
Loc: New Brighton
Originally Posted By: joalex
I personally think that at least half of mersey tunnels profits should be used to support the river mersey services and facilities.


You make some good points but I think you're wrong on that one. First rule of economics is pay off your debts. Mersey Tunnel's profits should go to pay off their debts as number 1 priority long before they start getting milked further as a cash cow by the ferries!

I understand the importance of public transport, and to some extend the subsidies afforded it but that should come from general taxation. It's not fair to expect drivers using a certain route every day to bankroll your ferries.

Top
#722139 - 4th Sep 2012 10:13pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: joalex
it appears that we are being shortchanged, not just in services we rely on from mersey ferries,


The point is, I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who rely on the Mersey ferries today. I can still remember when it was a major commuter service, with a ferry from Woodside every ten minutes, and a fare of 2d. (old money).
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#722141 - 4th Sep 2012 10:33pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
RUDEBOX Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 19087
Loc: Bob Land
Chris, judging by the Seacombe Ferry carpark i think that the shuttle service, at peak times is still well used.

However, how popular is the Cruise during term time week? Hmmm.
_________________________
Mia Mabel


Top
#722144 - 4th Sep 2012 11:11pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: chriskay]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13974
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: chriskay
Originally Posted By: joalex
it appears that we are being shortchanged, not just in services we rely on from mersey ferries,


The point is, I think you could count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who rely on the Mersey ferries today. I can still remember when it was a major commuter service, with a ferry from Woodside every ten minutes, and a fare of 2d. (old money).


Blimey Chris! Was that two, old one penny coins,the ones with Britannia on the reverse side and equivilent to 5p in 2012?

The following is taken from Wikipedia to give an idea of pasenger numbers 40 years ago.

"Compounded with the opening of the Kingsway road tunnel on 28 June 1971 and a further decline in passenger numbers (only 4,000-5,000 a day), the future of the service was uncertain. It was sentimental, rather than economical grounds which resulted in the retention of the ferries, after much public protest to keep them". ......
-----------------------------------------------------------------

The difficulty, or one of them I believe is the Woodside Terminal. The fact that our dear King Edward III granted the Royal Charter back in 1330, the ferry service has to be run from Woodside by law. I think they may well try to get that overturned. Woodside probably makes less money than either of the other two terminals. Seacombe has free parking, due to the fact they received funding for the car park and therefore cannot charge.They can charge at Woodside, so it makes all things more expensive to cross the river but the employees of the CSA used to take up many of the car parking spaces and maybe still do. Years ago ,Mersey Travel for some unknown reason ,finished the service of the little electric buses to the ferry from the centre of the town.
They also finihed the morning commuter service to cut costs but they still have to keep Woodside going.If they didn't , I believe that the terminal would have been closed long before now.
The shop and cafe at Liverpool Pier Head I believe are franchised, as is the cafe at Woodside.
Now reducing the possiblity of passengers, then the last option is to reduce services even more. I for one am quite convinced this has all been well thought out and manipulated over a number of years.Otherwise it would seem there are a load of plonkers sitting in high positions.
It makes me very cross when (I think I've mentioned before)WMBC was granted £10million between 1999 and 2004 to be spent on Birkenhead Tourism. So, what did they do with it and why hasn't it worked for the town and the ferry? It's not even 10 years ago.

Yo Alex, it is not generally possible to rob Peter to pay Paul , although under ownership and management of Mersey Travel, the tunnels and ferries are two different companies.


Edited by granny (4th Sep 2012 11:17pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
#722147 - 4th Sep 2012 11:24pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
joalex
Unregistered


repaying any debt should remain at the top of any business agenda & I personally think mersey tunnels should use one quarter of the other half of its profit pot to repay this debt, leaving a remaining quarter to cover the operational costs.

according to the recent publication a longstanding agreement requires mersey tunnels to subsidise mersey failing ferrys & always will.

I think we of wirral should ensure that wirral gets the most out of mersey ferries as we are funding the failing ferry.

I also think we of wirral should ensure that mersey failing ferries is managed & operated in a manner that fairly distributes an industry income stream to the hidden destinations.

failing ferry or no failing ferry is open for debate. if we have no ferry what will we have instead? will half or any of the mersey tunnels profit pot we as a region pay into be invested in wirral?

we of wirral deserve a little more and should demand a little more.

Top
#722149 - 4th Sep 2012 11:40pm Re: Wirral Robbery [Re: ]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13974
Loc: Wirral
Well Yo Alex, I would suggest you either make an appointment with Frank Field or get your concerns and ideas published in our local press, because none of us on Wikiwirral can do anything about it.We can post our thoughts but so far as ideas are concerned, you are obviously the one who can see a future for the ferries in so many different ways. I personally can't see much improvement from the said situation, unless outside companies come into play.
Maybe the council will sell another asset, the Priory, to which the Royal Charter was granted, then it wouldn't be the responsibility of Mersey Travel to keep Woodide Ferry operating.
Maybe action should start now to protect it, rather than waiting until the possible dreaded dead is done. No good shouting when it's too late. If anyone knows what might be on the agenda it's Frank Field
B the way, where are the hidden destinations?
There was a Tour Bus operated a few years back, which was a miserable failure. It could have gone to the 'hidden destinations' such as Brimstage, Wirral Country Park, West Kirby Parkgate, Ness Gardens for example, but no, it did a picturesque tour of the A41 past CammelLairds and so on. More wasted money.


Edited by granny (4th Sep 2012 11:46pm)
_________________________
...and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.FN

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Mod 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Has Talktalk been hacked yet again?
by Habdab
Today at 10:25 AM
Offset number plates
by venice
Yesterday at 01:24 AM
What does this all mean?
by venice
22nd Mar 2017 12:20pm
black contiboard locally?
by fish5133
21st Mar 2017 9:30pm
Port Sunlight
by alan128
21st Mar 2017 10:09am
For Sale & Free
Genuine Canada Goose Men's Chilliwack Jacket - L
by Liverpooltiger
Yesterday at 01:14 PM
Nail Varnish Stands X 2 (holds 50 in each one)
by j_demo
20th Mar 2017 5:49pm
Ipad
by madrob
19th Mar 2017 5:15pm
windows 7 64bit pc
by brady
18th Mar 2017 4:49pm
Petrol Lawnmower to purchase
by saltytom
18th Mar 2017 8:42am
Featured Member
Registered: 7th Nov 2011
Posts: 83
Newest Members
Monkeyboyliam121, andreap, LairdLad, HollandGj, petaann
12247 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Has Talktalk been hacked yet again?
by Habdab
Today at 10:25 AM
What does this all mean?
by venice
22nd Mar 2017 12:20pm
black contiboard locally?
by fish5133
21st Mar 2017 9:30pm
Port Sunlight
by alan128
21st Mar 2017 10:09am
Council tax bill for this year 2017
by keef666
20th Mar 2017 10:25pm
News : New Topics
Incident at Westminster
by granny
22nd Mar 2017 3:40pm
Martin Mcguinness dies
by Dilly
21st Mar 2017 9:29am
British troops to Estonia
by fish5133
18th Mar 2017 8:16am
Unusual Phone calls
by granny
16th Mar 2017 3:53pm
Thanks
by Christinerowland
14th Mar 2017 8:11pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Offset number plates
by venice
Yesterday at 01:24 AM
File too large
by Dilly
20th Mar 2017 10:41am
ford focus 1.6 t reg rattling
by Little_B
19th Mar 2017 11:02pm
Alloys refurb and colour change. The Wheel Deal.
by TheComputerLab
18th Mar 2017 9:17am
Has anyone fished
by Habdab
17th Mar 2017 8:43pm
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Has Talktalk been hacked yet again? 41
Mannequin Challenge AKA MRI Scan 6
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Fri 6:02am
Sunset Fri 6:33pm
Local Time Fri 12:08pm
WikiWirral Can . . . .