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#686572 - 20th Apr 2012 12:21am Chinese Orphanages
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15010
Loc: Wirral
Tonight I have received first hand information about a Chinese Orphanage from a person who has done mission work out there. An orphanage, out in the country away from the towns, where the little children are tied by their feet to wooden chairs, which have holes in the seat, so they can go to the toilet whenever they need to. That would indicate that they sit without any pants or nappies on most of the time.
Having had a look on the internet tonight, I have discovered that these claims have been made before, and also many of the orphans die from malnutrition .
Why oh why are our councils, companies, world governments and us as a nation happy to make deals with the Chinese, buy their goods, support their Olympics, and have nothing to say about such dreadful human rights atrocities? If we do, it seems to be soon forgotten again.
Most have strong feelings against the suffering of animals out there, but we hear little of the plight of these tiny little children. What is our world about? The Chinese have had a cruel streak in the past I suppose and one wonders if the same is still going on in Eastern block countries.We hear little about them these days and that is no help to those little children.
Sorry, because this is first hand information, it has gone deep within me and maybe I shouldn't be posting,just felt I had to share it with some of you out there.




Edited by granny (20th Apr 2012 12:25am)
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#686577 - 20th Apr 2012 1:02am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
Elizabeth Offline
Veteran

Registered: 28th Jul 2011
Posts: 719
Loc: Prenton, Wirral
Originally Posted By: granny

Why oh why are our councils, companies, world governments and us as a nation happy to make deals with the Chinese, buy their goods, support their Olympics, and have nothing to say about such dreadful human rights atrocities?




In a word, money. That's the tragedy about the world and its double standards. frown

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#686582 - 20th Apr 2012 2:29am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10808
Loc: Birkenhead
Only when you are in a position of power can you start dictating to other nations. We certainly can't beat China by force.

Once trade has been flowing for a while they will become dependent upon it or generally more amicable, then other countries can start the diplomatic moves to move into our ways of thinking (not that we are perfect either).

I think we are a bit two-faced that just because some countries have moved to more civilised things in the last few years, after being on the planet for 200,000 years that we expect other countries to jump overnight.

Look at the richest countries for reserves in natural resources - Afghanistan, South Africa, Iran, Mexico, Brazil, Columbia, Canada, Russia etc its interesting comparing the list to the most developed countries.

Then there is the "resource curse", well worth a read HERE
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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#686603 - 20th Apr 2012 9:24am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
ex0__ Offline
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Registered: 25th Apr 2011
Posts: 1337
Loc: 1337
Originally Posted By: granny
stuff


Okay. I'll play devil's advocate.

http://tinyurl.com/bmxjf4j

So reading this link above and a few other pages (the first ones that show up in a google search you could have done yourself rather than relying on 'first hand knowledge', but I digress ..) lead me to the conclusion that this happened at the Shanghai Children's Institute back in the late 80's / early 90's and it was documented and shown on the BBC (and the Oprah Winfrey Show; cause they love a scandal) and the Chinese government ended up getting increased funding for orphanages and used the negative experience in order to drastically improve the standards of living at the current orphanages.

You shouldn't trust 'first hand knowledge' explicitly.
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#686606 - 20th Apr 2012 9:29am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
Max1967
Unregistered


well granny, we would all be lying if we said we did not know this kind of thing was going on, and your right its not just china. but i have to be the first to admit, iam a single mam of three and those kind of things i either flick the page in the paper, turn tele over and yes i choose to ignore. this is all because, i work in a bakery and have no power at all to do anything other than hand in old clothes when there finished with, and put in collection baskets when i can. of course i say the odd prayer that it all ends, i hope its just not me that deals with it this way.

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#686615 - 20th Apr 2012 9:52am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: ex0__]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15010
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: ex0__
Originally Posted By: granny
stuff


Rubbish
You shouldn't trust 'first hand knowledge' explicitly.


You can't get more 'first hand' than someone who worked in the orphanage with them, last year, and nowhere near Shanghai.
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#686617 - 20th Apr 2012 9:56am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
ex0__ Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 25th Apr 2011
Posts: 1337
Loc: 1337
Originally Posted By: granny
Originally Posted By: ex0__
Originally Posted By: granny
stuff


Rubbish
You shouldn't trust 'first hand knowledge' explicitly.


You can't get more 'first hand' than someone who worked in the orphanage with them, last year, and nowhere near Shanghai.


Let me guess. Your first hand orphanage worker didn't take a single picture and so you're relying on them telling the truth. Amirite?

Let me give you an example. Some dude came on here a few weeks ago because his friend took a picture of a ghost on Bidston Hill, swore to heaven and earth that it wasn't a fake, his friend posted it on the paranormal board asking about it. Here's the link: https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/677454/Re_bidston_hill_ghost_picture.html

As you can see it was clearly shown to be fake. His friend wasn't telling the truth.

t;dr : PROOF WRU
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#686623 - 20th Apr 2012 10:09am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: ex0__]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15010
Loc: Wirral
Ex0, please don't push this down the wrong path. I am not interested in your opinions, because in this instance, you are not in a position or qualified to make any negative comments. Denial, is an option that has resulted in the downfall of many. Nobody has to prove anything to you, particularly a world organization.
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#686626 - 20th Apr 2012 10:12am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
dave_h Offline

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Registered: 18th Nov 2008
Posts: 1215
Loc: School of Hardknocks
fair point ex0
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#686628 - 20th Apr 2012 10:13am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
ex0__ Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 25th Apr 2011
Posts: 1337
Loc: 1337
So just to recap: your friend worked in a national organisation that found kids being tied down for hours in a chinese orphanage and there's not a single article about it online?

Hey Granny, I went to Wales a couple weeks ago and I saw dozens of welsh people tieing down sheeps and doing all manner of unnatural things to them. You have my word on it (and this counts as my first hand information).

/bullshitcalled
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#686633 - 20th Apr 2012 10:22am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: ex0__]
dave_h Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 18th Nov 2008
Posts: 1215
Loc: School of Hardknocks
Originally Posted By: ex0__
So just to recap: your friend worked in a national organisation that found kids being tied down for hours in a chinese orphanage and there's not a single article about it online?

Hey Granny, I went to Wales a couple weeks ago and I saw dozens of welsh people tieing down sheeps and doing all manner of unnatural things to them. You have my word on it (and this counts as my first hand information).

/bullshitcalled


obviously taking no notice of the road signs then

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#686637 - 20th Apr 2012 10:29am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
Snodvan Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 19th Mar 2008
Posts: 1289
Loc: Wallasey Village
Granny,
I will accept what your friend has said. I do also accept that Exo makes some valid points.

On a basis that this sort of child treatment does go on (as it did in certain Eastern Bloc countries that are now in/ wishing to be in Europe) then the question is what can be done - if anything?

Short term the answer is nothing. There is NO way that any other countries can directly attempt to change what is based on an internal Chinese cultural problem that derived (mainly) as a hang-over from the "cultural revolution" - which please remember was directly responsible for the deaths of MILLIONS of people - and within living memory.

A large part of that hang-over is the one child policy. Couple that with a fairly natural desire for families to have a male heir and the result is a lot of female babies being dumped into orphanages. Not all the children will be female - if you already have one son that a second was "not allowed".

The one-child policy is no longer mandatory. However, it TAKES TIME for rural societies to catch up and CHANGE THEIR THINKING. China is a vast country. Outside the cities many people cannot read. The country does NOT have a language that is understood everywhere - some local variants are as different as English & Greek would be in Europe. Therefore word spreads slowly and is vulnerable to the "interpretations" (read: personal opinions) of local politicians/ media.

If "we" - ie countries outside China, tried to shun China and it's output/ raw material / consumer goods demands then we would get absolutely nowhere. We need China. China does not really need us.

What is needed - AND WHAT WILL COME - is a change in attitude within China. There are now many millions of modern, urban, Chinese who are slowly but surely making their voices heard at the higher political levels.

I have been to China many times. I have many friends there and we communicate regularly. I KNOW that some of those friends are quite aware of the malpractices that go on in their country. I know one or two of them who really care enough about that such that THEY DO make contributions to local Chinese charities. Having been to China many times since the mid 1980s the difference between then and now is absolutely amazing. The first impact is visual - the cities are now mind-blowingly modern. More important the change has been in the people. They are no longer afraid to talk, express opinions or to (in moderation) criticise. More changes WILL come.

Having said all that I invite you to take one step back and think about the recent UK press exposures about the treatment of elderly people in certain (so called) Care Homes. Those practices were equally disgusting.

Snod
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5 Precepts of Buddhism seem appropriate. Refrain from taking life. Refrain from taking that which is not given. Refrain from misconduct. Refrain from lying. Refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness

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#686640 - 20th Apr 2012 10:39am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: ex0__]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: ex0__


Let me guess. Your first hand orphanage worker didn't take a single picture and so you're relying on them telling the truth. Amirite?

Let me give you an example. Some dude came on here a few weeks ago because his friend took a picture of a ghost on Bidston Hill, swore to heaven and earth that it wasn't a fake, his friend posted it on the paranormal board asking about it. Here's the link: https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/677454/Re_bidston_hill_ghost_picture.html

As you can see it was clearly shown to be fake. His friend wasn't telling the truth.

t;dr : PROOF WRU



I don't see how this example helps your rebuttal. If pictures had been taken, you could have simply discounted them as fake.
Oh, and please don't use text speak, especially in a serious context.
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Carpe diem.

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#686642 - 20th Apr 2012 10:44am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: Snodvan]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15010
Loc: Wirral
Thanks Snod,
Your reply is welcome, and yes we can also look closer to home but in China, it's the millions of little children and babies who suffer because of the 'one child policy'.
In the meantime it's encouraging to hear your account on this and I thank you.
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#686643 - 20th Apr 2012 10:46am Re: Chinese Orphanages [Re: granny]
Lightning Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 24th Jan 2012
Posts: 2397
Loc: different one and love it
Granny,did you ever see that documentry called the crying room?
About the orphanage?
very sad story hun x
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