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#647000 - 5th Jan 2012 7:35pm WW1 Graves
FiremanFil Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 17th Sep 2011
Posts: 574
Loc: Wirral
Some years ago, I was in Belgium on my way to the Menin gate at Ypres. On the main road into Ypres, about 5 miles out, I spotted a small graveyard for British soldiers. I recognised it by the distinctive cross. There are many of these graveyards in France and Belgium, the land being given over by grateful farmers to bury the dead. Curiosity got the better of me and I decided to go and take a look.
As you enter these graveyards, there is usually,placed in a hollow in the wall, with a metal door to protect it from the elements, a book listing the names of the soldiers buried in the cemetery, and in some cases, listing their next-of-kin. Imagine then, to my amazement, when the first name I saw was a chap called Cohen who was the son of a vicar who lived in Palm Grove in Oxton!! He was, I think, a corporal in the Cheshire Regiment. I thought it was a bit spooky at the time that I, a resident of the Wirral, should stumble so eerily on the grave of such a man.
The Menin Gate ceremony was a very moving experience. The Last Post is played every day by a member of the local Fire Brigade, no less!! There are always throngs of people from all over the world-many who have come to remember loved ones-even through three generations sometimes, as you discover from the inevitable conversations that you strike up with people at places like that.
Can anyone shed any light on Corporal Cohen (that's the name \i recall)from Palm Grove, Oxton? At least he had a known grave-unlike so many more unfortunate men and women of the Great War.
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#647015 - 5th Jan 2012 7:56pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
Helles Offline
Wise One

Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
Only two I can find and one of those is on the memorial meaning no known grave. Not sure if this is your man as no addresses given? One is buried in Cardiff? Strange the son of a vicar having a Jewish name don't you think? Are you sure of the spelling?


http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1607184

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2759617


Edited by Helles (5th Jan 2012 7:58pm)

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#647016 - 5th Jan 2012 7:57pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
FiremanFil Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 17th Sep 2011
Posts: 574
Loc: Wirral
Thanks, Helles. I didn't think to follow things up at the time as I had other priorities. He is definitely from Palm Grove, Oxton, though-and the son of the then vicar.
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#647024 - 5th Jan 2012 8:11pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
yoller Online   content
Smartchild

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 461
Loc: Cheshire
Looking at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Debt of Honour website - which lists British war dead - I found these.

9998 Private Harry Cohen, of 1st Battalion, The Cheshire Regiment, who died
on June 1, 1915. Remembered with honour at the Ypres (Menin Gate) memorial.

(As you know, the Menin Gate records the names of those soldiers with no known grave).

The CWGC also lists 77934 Private I Cohen, of 1/ 4th Cheshire Regiment, who died on November 11, 1918 and is buried at Cardiff Jewish Cemetery.

Unfortunately, neither of these would seem to match a Corporal Cohen who is buried in a small graveyard five miles from Ypres.



Edited by yoller (5th Jan 2012 8:21pm)

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#647026 - 5th Jan 2012 8:18pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
FiremanFil Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 17th Sep 2011
Posts: 574
Loc: Wirral
I thought that might be the case Maybe I have remembered the wrong name. It did strike me that a Cohen would be more likely to be the son of a rabai than a vicar. I'm going to have to go back there and see if I got his name right. Whoever he is, he is definitely the son of the vicar who lived in Palm Grove. I am amazed at how quickly you guys find this information. If you fancy digging deeper for the right man, I'd be intrigued.
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#647037 - 5th Jan 2012 8:35pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
parkhill62 Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 29th Mar 2009
Posts: 20
Loc: birkenhead
His name doesn't appear on the birkenhead cenotaph list.
He may not have been a local,parents may have moved to the town to take over parish?

http://www.carlscam.com/warmem/birkenhead.htm

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#647055 - 5th Jan 2012 9:07pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
poodlepup Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 6th Oct 2010
Posts: 3973
Loc: wirral
There's a search engine been done,by some WW1 expert where its possible to search by name of address.

Link if it works Geoff's search

I can't search myself cos of dongle probs!


Edited by poodlepup (5th Jan 2012 9:08pm)
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#647058 - 5th Jan 2012 9:12pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: parkhill62]
suey30 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 29th Jan 2009
Posts: 172
Loc: wirral
my nans brother,is on there,p mcnulty,dont know anything about where he died,or how he died or where hes buried,kept meaning to look it up.

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#647060 - 5th Jan 2012 9:14pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
paxvobiscum Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 31st May 2011
Posts: 1115
Loc: Upton
Originally Posted By: FiremanFil
he is definitely the son of the vicar who lived in Palm Grove.


I have been to Ypres for the 80th Anniversary of Passendaele,The Somme and also on a WW11 War Grave trip.

My Great Uncle served with Liverpool Kings Regiment and his name is on their Memorial at Tyne Cot Cemetery.As not enough room on the Menin Gate to record all the names of those with unknown grave,the rest had their names on the panels at Tyne Cot.

If a British casualty was found days or weeks after casualties had been buried, they were quite often interred abroad in the local civilian town cemetery.

Apart from the websites shown research can be done at www.forces-war-records.co.uk or by searching De Ruvignys Roll of Honour.
The libraries have copies of old local newspapers which show those wounded or lost in battle.Phone to find out which ones.
I have copies of Wallasey News to show articles about my four great uncles serving in WW1, details of one recovering from shrapel in Bolougne Hospital, and then after being sent back to the Front his death at Third Battle of Ypres in September 1917. All this information is at Earlston Library Wallasey as he had been a Wallasey resident.

His name might be on War Memorial at Hamilton Square and census at Palm Grove might show more info but initial and date of death probably needed to check further. Send me a PM if you wish for a local Reseacher contact info. He is very good but would charge a fee.

Cohen might have been a Messianic Jew which is one who has converted to Christianity, hence the Vivar link.

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#647120 - 5th Jan 2012 10:46pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: parkhill62]
Helles Offline
Wise One

Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: parkhill62
His name doesn't appear on the birkenhead cenotaph list.
He may not have been a local,parents may have moved to the town to take over parish?

http://www.carlscam.com/warmem/birkenhead.htm


Did you know that relatives had to pay to have their loved ones name on the cenotaph? Might have changed since then but to me it was a disgrace but no surprise because we still don't look after our servicemen and women like other nations do.

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#647143 - 5th Jan 2012 11:04pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
poodlepup Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 6th Oct 2010
Posts: 3973
Loc: wirral
I too have done a few battlefield/cemetery tours,following where ancestors fought and died.A very moving experience!
I was lucky enough to find service records on Ancestry website.

Yes Helles shocking the way our servicemen and women are treated.
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#647211 - 5th Jan 2012 11:58pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
FiremanFil Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 17th Sep 2011
Posts: 574
Loc: Wirral
I am off for the weekend because I am taking my wife away to celebrate our pearl wedding anniversary. This has been a fascinating read for me. I just wish I had taken more notice at the time. I will be back on Monday to catch up. Thanks for the response!! :-)
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#647383 - 6th Jan 2012 1:33pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: poodlepup]
OxtonHill Online   content
Old Hand

Registered: 2nd Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Loc: Oxton
Originally Posted By: poodlepup
There's a search engine been done,by some WW1 expert where its possible to search by name of address.


Thanks poodlepup that a very good find, I've bookmarked it, his search engine really works very well.

Back on topic I searched through all the CWGC's graveyards using the above search engine, on a whole variety of keywords, Oxton, Palm & Grove, Vicar, Birkenhead, Corporal, ended up going through about 300 names but nothing matched the original post.

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#649960 - 10th Jan 2012 8:02pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
FiremanFil Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 17th Sep 2011
Posts: 574
Loc: Wirral
Wow!! I am amazed at how much interest my post has generated. Having just returned from my weekend away I am more than ever determined to get to the bottom of this mystery. I am sure my facts must be muddled by time-apart from the "son of the vicar" bit. Watch this space!! :-)
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Keepsmilingworkswonders!

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#650678 - 11th Jan 2012 9:31pm Re: WW1 Graves [Re: FiremanFil]
suey30 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 29th Jan 2009
Posts: 172
Loc: wirral
having got me interested i have now found all the details of my nans brother,thanks

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