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#578671 - 8th Sep 2011 6:22pm a crime commited?
free_spirit Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 19th Apr 2009
Posts: 452
Loc: wirral
can someone help
with this,

if your are with someone who is commiting a crime, then are you breaking the law too?

its a question my daughter is struggling on for her school work,
she thinks yes, but we not 100% sure..

any help appreciatted, thanks

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#578674 - 8th Sep 2011 6:33pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: free_spirit]
lau2908 Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 5th Jun 2010
Posts: 1406
Loc: wallasey
i would have said yes but i am not 100% either

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#578675 - 8th Sep 2011 6:33pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: free_spirit]
pokerchamp Offline
Wise One

Registered: 29th Aug 2011
Posts: 820
Loc: wallasey
do you mean with them at the scene of the crime or in a relationship with them knowing they are commiting a crime?

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#578683 - 8th Sep 2011 6:42pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: pokerchamp]
free_spirit Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 19th Apr 2009
Posts: 452
Loc: wirral
Originally Posted By: pokerchamp
do you mean with them at the scene of the crime or in a relationship with them knowing they are commiting a crime?


actually there at the scene of where the crime is being commited..

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#578685 - 8th Sep 2011 6:42pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: pokerchamp]
yewgarth Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 2nd Nov 2008
Posts: 1781
Loc: new ferry
wouldn't that be aiding and abetting?

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#578688 - 8th Sep 2011 6:44pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: yewgarth]
free_spirit Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 19th Apr 2009
Posts: 452
Loc: wirral
Originally Posted By: yewgarth
wouldn't that be aiding and abetting?


not sure,
its just asks would you be breaking the law if your with somebody while they are commiting a crime

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#578691 - 8th Sep 2011 6:50pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: free_spirit]
pokerchamp Offline
Wise One

Registered: 29th Aug 2011
Posts: 820
Loc: wallasey
depends on the nature of the crime!!if your with someone and they punch someone in the face then they will be charged with GBH and there would be no charge because you didnt do anything but if you were with someone and they were comitting stealing a car then yes you prob would be charged with that!!!its a hard one but i would definatley say it depends on the nature of the crime!!hope this helps.

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#578694 - 8th Sep 2011 6:54pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: free_spirit]
TheDr Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 23rd Feb 2010
Posts: 2631
Loc: Wirral
It depends on the crime, and how in-depth you go depends what level their "school work" is at.

To commit a crime you must (normally) have to have Mens Rea (guilty/evil mind) in that you KNOW that are committing a crime, or at least, what you are doing is wrong (so obviously a 2 year old grabbing sweets in a shop isn't theft as they don't know the difference, but for someone older it could well be).

Some offences don't even need you to be WITH the person, for example, someone gets stopped driving a friends car, and they are dsqualified from driving, the person driving is guilty of the crime (driving whilst disqualified, no insurance), however their passengers are guilty of no offence, HOWEVER the OWNER of the vehicle, (even if not present), if they knew that their friend was using the car could still be guilty of allowing them to use it knowing they were disqualified, and it would be up to them to prove that either they didn't know, or that they took "reasonable" steps to check (the driver showed them a licence etc).

The part I think they are getting at is if two (or more) people set out to commit a crime, such as burglary. If two people break into a house, that is the crime, if whilst it is being done one of the burglars then assaults, or kills, someone on the premises, then both would be guilty of the higher offence (aggravated burglary or murder). If one of the people was waiting in the car outside at the time, he would STILL be guilty of the offence. His only defence would be that he didn't know that the other person was committing a burglary (his friend had asked him to give him a lift to someones house to collect something he had bought etc), obviously this would hold much more weight if it was a 4 in the afternoon rather than 4 in the morning.

If two people are walking along the road and one just decides to smash a window then if the other had no idea they were going to do this and it was completely unforseeable, no he has committed no offence, if he had any idea this was going to happen or he (for example) dared the other one to do it, then yes he is guilty.

If this all sounds complicated, it is, if it means that the answer is "sometimes", then it is, if this is why people with fancy solicitors get off with things they have done by quoting obscure cases, it is.

If you need any more help just pm me.

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#578728 - 8th Sep 2011 7:54pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: TheDr]
free_spirit Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 19th Apr 2009
Posts: 452
Loc: wirral
Originally Posted By: TheDr
It depends on the crime, and how in-depth you go depends what level their "school work" is at.

To commit a crime you must (normally) have to have Mens Rea (guilty/evil mind) in that you KNOW that are committing a crime, or at least, what you are doing is wrong (so obviously a 2 year old grabbing sweets in a shop isn't theft as they don't know the difference, but for someone older it could well be).

Some offences don't even need you to be WITH the person, for example, someone gets stopped driving a friends car, and they are dsqualified from driving, the person driving is guilty of the crime (driving whilst disqualified, no insurance), however their passengers are guilty of no offence, HOWEVER the OWNER of the vehicle, (even if not present), if they knew that their friend was using the car could still be guilty of allowing them to use it knowing they were disqualified, and it would be up to them to prove that either they didn't know, or that they took "reasonable" steps to check (the driver showed them a licence etc).

The part I think they are getting at is if two (or more) people set out to commit a crime, such as burglary. If two people break into a house, that is the crime, if whilst it is being done one of the burglars then assaults, or kills, someone on the premises, then both would be guilty of the higher offence (aggravated burglary or murder). If one of the people was waiting in the car outside at the time, he would STILL be guilty of the offence. His only defence would be that he didn't know that the other person was committing a burglary (his friend had asked him to give him a lift to someones house to collect something he had bought etc), obviously this would hold much more weight if it was a 4 in the afternoon rather than 4 in the morning.

If two people are walking along the road and one just decides to smash a window then if the other had no idea they were going to do this and it was completely unforseeable, no he has committed no offence, if he had any idea this was going to happen or he (for example) dared the other one to do it, then yes he is guilty.

If this all sounds complicated, it is, if it means that the answer is "sometimes", then it is, if this is why people with fancy solicitors get off with things they have done by quoting obscure cases, it is.

If you need any more help just pm me.


that was great, helped her loads, thanks very much for the examples.
appreciatted you taking the time.

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#578732 - 8th Sep 2011 8:00pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: free_spirit]
Moonstar Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 2nd Jul 2011
Posts: 1240
Loc: Wirral
Isn't the Doc one smart bloke.

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#578740 - 8th Sep 2011 8:08pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: free_spirit]
TheDr Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 23rd Feb 2010
Posts: 2631
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: free_spirit
that was great, helped her loads, thanks very much for the examples.
appreciatted you taking the time.


No worries, hope it all makes sense for her, if she gets stuck just send me a pm and I'll try and help.

No I won't do everyones homework laugh

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#578760 - 8th Sep 2011 8:37pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: free_spirit]
debbiejames1985 Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 17th Feb 2009
Posts: 14
Loc: Wirral
is TheDr a real doctor?

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#578762 - 8th Sep 2011 8:42pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: TheDr]
free_spirit Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 19th Apr 2009
Posts: 452
Loc: wirral
Originally Posted By: TheDr
Originally Posted By: free_spirit
that was great, helped her loads, thanks very much for the examples.
appreciatted you taking the time.


No worries, hope it all makes sense for her, if she gets stuck just send me a pm and I'll try and help.

No I won't do everyones homework laugh


thanks happy

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#578838 - 8th Sep 2011 10:40pm Re: a crime commited? [Re: Moonstar]
yewgarth Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 2nd Nov 2008
Posts: 1781
Loc: new ferry
Originally Posted By: Moonstar
Isn't the Doc one smart bloke.


yes he gets it from me hi

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#579108 - 9th Sep 2011 9:39am Re: a crime commited? [Re: free_spirit]
Boogles Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 6th Jul 2011
Posts: 31
Loc: Heswall
Quite simply put, aiding and abetting is assisting in the crime. So again quite simply put, being present is not committing a crime, you can probably answer that question with one word.

Kind regards,
Ian

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