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#547802 - 16th Jul 2011 8:55pm warning- car insurance need for off road cars
paxvobiscum Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 31st May 2011
Posts: 1131
Loc: Upton
The government is forcing all motorists to insure their vehicle whether they drive it or not, under controversial rules that are designed to combat uninsured driving.

Under the terms of the little-known continuous insurance enforcement law, it will be an offence to "keep" an uninsured vehicle be it a car, van, motorbike, motorhome or truck even if it is locked up in the garage or permanently parked on a driveway. Until now it has only been an offence to actively drive an uninsured vehicle.

The change has been introduced quietly, but it will have a big impact on any motorist who has bought a new car but is yet to dispose of the old one, and on sports car owners who park their vehicles for much of the year.

Such drivers will no longer be able to put a car uninsured in the garage or parked off the road. In future they will have to contact the DVLA in Swansea, declare the car as "off the road" by filling in a statutory off road notification (Sorn), and give up the tax disc at the same time.

The government has introduced the changes, which appear at odds with its campaign to abolish red tape, as part of its fight against uninsured drivers.

A national advertising campaign has been launched by the Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB), but few drivers are probably aware of the change.

Mike Penning, the road safety minister, says: "Uninsured drivers are a danger on our roads, killing 160 and injuring a further 23,000 people each year, and they cost honest motorists 500m in extra premiums.

"That is why we are introducing this tough new law, which will leave uninsured drivers with nowhere to hide. Our message is clear: get insured or face a fine, court action or seeing your car seized and destroyed."

However, the plan will have major cost implications for law-abiding vehicle owners who want to park their car temporarily after its insurance expires.

From Monday 20 June), the DVLA will work with the MIB to identify uninsured vehicles. Motorists will receive a letter telling them their vehicle appears to be uninsured, and warning them they will be fined unless they take action. The first letters will start going out in the next few days. If the keeper fails to insure the vehicle they will be given a 100 fine.

If the vehicle remains uninsured regardless of whether or not the fine is paid "further action will be taken", the MIB says. If the vehicle is on public land it could then be clamped, seized and destroyed. Alternatively, court action could be taken with the offender facing a fine of up to 1,000.

Vehicles with a valid Sorn will not need to be insured.

Ashton West, MIB chief executive, says that at any given time about 4% of vehicles have no motor insurance. "The change in law is a stepping up of enforcement activity, so that not only those vehicles driven without insurance will be caught. Now the registered keeper must make sure their vehicle is insured all the time."

Uninsured driving has become a huge problem in some areas, with some young men who have been "priced out" of insurance buying cars and taking to the road without cover.

Some will wonder why this has been introduced given that it is already an offence to drive an uninsured car. The police seize 180,000 vehicles each year for this offence, with offenders facing a 200 fixed penalty or a court fine of up to 5,000, and possible disqualification. About 200,000 people are convicted of uninsured driving every year.

Every time you give up your tax disc or buy a new one you lose money, unless you time it exactly for the end or the beginning of the month.

The move, however, has been welcomed by the insurance industry. Nigel Bartram, underwriting expert at the UK's biggest insurer, Aviva, says uninsured driving costs premium-paying motorists 30 a year on their insurance policies.

He says:"It is our hope that ridding the roads of uninsured drivers will reduce pressure on premiums. We welcome this as the strongest deterrent yet in the fight against uninsured driving. We know that those motorists driving without insurance are also likely to skip their annual MOT in fact, they are six times more likely to drive an unsafe vehicle."

In April the prime minister announced his "red tape challenge" to get rid of unnecessary regulations. The AA has asked why driving licences have to be renewed after 10 years, and why some bus lanes are 24 hours, even though the buses don't run through the night.

Owners can check their vehicle is recorded as insured by using the free service at askMID.com.


Guardian -Miles Brignall

Time for motorists to register uninsured cars they never use

Comment by paxvobiscum- My friend who is in a Classic Car Club and has cars he is slowly restoring was unaware last week about this new law, phoned the above number and now has to pay insurance on all these cars which are not in a state to go on the road, and are too old for taxation, and I think alot of people will be caught out. Forgive me if this topic has already been posted but at a quick glance I did not find a posting.

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#547805 - 16th Jul 2011 9:00pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
What a scare-mongering article. You just get a free SORN on the vehicle and you don't need insurance.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#547818 - 16th Jul 2011 9:16pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: diggingdeeper]
Sarah_ZR Offline
Wiki Veteran

Registered: 8th Jul 2011
Posts: 8484
Loc: wirral
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
What a scare-mongering article. You just get a free SORN on the vehicle and you don't need insurance.

Stupid is'nt it DD!

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#547821 - 16th Jul 2011 9:21pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
I've seen a lot of articles making out how bad this is. The SORN is free and can even be done online - easy peasy. If it helps reduce the number of illegal drivers on the road, I'm all for it.

Also, give Ste a nudge to remind him what we talked about before wink
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#547826 - 16th Jul 2011 9:28pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: Sarah_ZR]
paxvobiscum Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 31st May 2011
Posts: 1131
Loc: Upton
Please don't shoot the messenger. I thought I was being helpful.

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#547830 - 16th Jul 2011 9:35pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: paxvobiscum
Please don't shoot the messenger. I thought I was being helpful.
raftl not at all, there seemed to be a big campaign to discredit this before it started. I guess at some time in the future they will start charging for SORN's, now that WILL upset people!

The insurance people are hoping to cash in, they will be sending out Insurance Advisory Letters (IALs) to remind people that their cars are uninsured. No doubt it will be written in the style above and the "or just SORN it for free" put in the smallest font possible.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#547847 - 16th Jul 2011 10:20pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: diggingdeeper]
Sarah_ZR Offline
Wiki Veteran

Registered: 8th Jul 2011
Posts: 8484
Loc: wirral
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
I've seen a lot of articles making out how bad this is. The SORN is free and can even be done online - easy peasy. If it helps reduce the number of illegal drivers on the road, I'm all for it.

Also, give Ste a nudge to remind him what we talked about before wink

Okiess will tell him now

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#547864 - 16th Jul 2011 10:45pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
The police are claiming my car wasnt insured on the day of the 10th December 2010, after a little "investigation" by them. This is despite the fact that my insurance company have sent a letter to confirm I have held the same policy, without a break, since February 2007 with them. And this is despite having been given a producer, they were more than happy to accept my insruance certificate, date 19th August, as proof 2 days later. It wasnt showing on the MID at the time, and the police have not got enough braincells to ring the insurance company to check?

What would happen in cases like this, they just tow the car away, never to be seen again? The thing that worries me, is when their systems go wrong, the police have about as much intelligence as my goldfish as to how to resolve the situation.

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#547869 - 16th Jul 2011 10:50pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
When the SORN was just tax, it was the DVLA who did the removal, not the police. With it being an insurance SORN now as well, its probably all in the melting pot and nobody has a clue who is responsible.

I suspect the insurance side of things will be more fine based as that enables whoopsies in insurance to be be picked up in a safer manner. DVLA and the police are well aware how accurate the MID database is and the loopholes in using it.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#547880 - 16th Jul 2011 11:06pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
DavidB Offline
Wiki Guide

Registered: 7th Dec 2003
Posts: 5634
Loc: Bebington, Wirral
It's easy to do, but it's another pointless addition by the DVLA. The DVLA used to offer a service, they're now rabid about fines and charges.

ps. Fu ck you DVLA.
_________________________
"C20 LET bang"

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#547888 - 16th Jul 2011 11:15pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
_Ste_ Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 7th Aug 2005
Posts: 16049
Loc: New Brighton
Wonder if they give you the money back for the tax you have forked out on?

Ridiculous, time consuming and an idiotic money making scam!

Simples!
_________________________


http://www.youtube.com/user/stetopop

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#547897 - 16th Jul 2011 11:39pm Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
Yes, you can refund your tax disc at any time, you lose a bit as with most things in life you cancel.

SORNing really couldn't be any easier than it is, there are still far too many people driving around with no MOT, no insurance and no tax. Its fine until their dodgey vehicle kills or maims someone.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#547912 - 17th Jul 2011 12:32am Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: diggingdeeper]
_Ste_ Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 7th Aug 2005
Posts: 16049
Loc: New Brighton
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
Yes, you can refund your tax disc at any time, you lose a bit as with most things in life you cancel.

SORNing really couldn't be any easier than it is, there are still far too many people driving around with no MOT, no insurance and no tax. Its fine until their dodgey vehicle kills or maims someone.


Yes but they`re making the money from us exepting our `short` cash refund from our tax discs.
When we re-new our tax they dismiss us the weeks\days we re-new from?
_________________________


http://www.youtube.com/user/stetopop

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#547914 - 17th Jul 2011 12:41am Re: warning- car insurance need for off road cars [Re: paxvobiscum]
TheDr Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 23rd Feb 2010
Posts: 2631
Loc: Wirral
I think the point is, it wont change ANYTHING for the uninsured driver, ONLY those who pay out and fill in all the forms correctly will be affected.

To SORN a car is easy, takes a few minutes, done, end of story. If you drive a car when it is SORNed it will show up on the ANPR system when the police pass you, and your car will be grabbed and you pay to get it back plus outstanding tax.

If you don't insure your car IT'S THE SAME SYSTEM that would catch you, so if you don't have it and you get pinged on the ANPR, car seized etc.

Those that don't insure there cars aren't going to just because you have to do in continuously now, if they weren't going to do it when they were driving the cars on the road they certainly aren't going to do it when the car is parked up on their driveway. All that will happen is that they'll fill out the SORN so that they don't get any hassle, and risk it when they want to drive, exactly the same as they do now, nothing will change.

The ONLY people who will affected by this is the normal law abiding motorist who maybe has a classic car that he takes out for a few months of the year (with a free tax disc) that now he has to keep returning discs, cancelling insurance, declaring a SORN and then filling out the whole thing again when he wants to use his car for a few days (yes you can get day/week/month insurance). Paperwork increases, errors creep in, innocent people will get fined, cars that are legal will get grabbed and people will lose days getting them back.

I've had to collect cars from the police when they've been impounded. Birkenhead Police has never taken less than 4hrs, and once took 4hrs, per day, for 6 days to have it returned (their system hadn't been updated). THEN had to go through the same thing again at RNW who for some reason think it's pefectly okay for THEM to check that my documents are valid after the police doing just that. I collected one from a station in Yorkshire, in, produced, out in under 5mins. Over to recovery yard and left in under 3... (but that's for another rant)

The system, at the moment, works as well as it can, it has flaws, but it's working. There are holes in it, there are ways not to have your car grabbed if you don't have insurance, there are ways to have the car ON the MID and never get stopped, despite the driver not being allowed to drive or not being insured for it, and these new rules wont change ANY of that.

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