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Is this legal ? unlawful deductions #533258
14th Jun 2011 11:34pm
14th Jun 2011 11:34pm
Joined: Jun 2010
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wallasey
lau2908 Offline OP
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lau2908  Offline OP
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wallasey
Bit of a strange one but i friend of mine works at a garage and when hes on duty if any car drives off without paying for petrol it comes out of his wages, tonight it happened and he is now 100 pound short within 2 hours! is this legal? I wont mention any names but its a big company name however leased by a 3rd party. The cameras DO NOT read reg plates as the cameras are so bad so surely its up to the owners to install proper cctv.

anyone know where he stands legally?
thanks in advance btw xx

Last edited by Mark; 15th Jun 2011 6:33am. Reason: title updated
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Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #533263
14th Jun 2011 11:45pm
14th Jun 2011 11:45pm
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the village of wallasey
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chev_chelios Offline
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the village of wallasey
think that ain't legal. Sue them

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #533269
15th Jun 2011 12:32am
15th Jun 2011 12:32am
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TheDr Offline
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I haven't read any contract (or employment) law for a few years, so this is from memory and I'll read up when I get home:

First of all it is the companies responsibility to have "adequate" protection for their staff, goods and premises. If CCTV is a requirement by their insurance, and it doesn't work, then their insurance will need to be reassessed by the insurer as their risk increases.

If the member of staff has been given instruction concerning authorising the pumps (for example, payment must be made after 7pm, you must take down Reg details before dispensing fuel etc etc) and he has failed to do this, then he can be liable, however, an employer may not deduct (aside from tax and NI) more than 10% from a wage in any week, and unless he is an extremely well paid attendant, I'm guessing £100 is more that 10%. If they attempt to hold back this amount it is considered theft, as the wages do belong to the employee .

They do it to try and stop attendants allowing friends to fill up and then make off (bilking) as the amounts involved can be quite high, especially will fuel prices today, but if they were to do this, and it was law, what would be to stop the owners having THEIR friends pull up and fill up, their friends get the fuel, and they get staff for free as they would be docking the wages so much.

Tell them to go do one, then give the Globe a ring tomorrow (they love stories on crime increases if they have someone to blame, governments and rising fuel prices etc) and make sure they get the "My Employer is making me pay for It", I'll give it half hour before he has three solicitors on the phone telling him how much they will get for him when they sue the company for unlawful deductions.

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: TheDr] #533310
15th Jun 2011 9:01am
15th Jun 2011 9:01am

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willo
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i thought this was normal for this to happen, they have always done this

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #533356
15th Jun 2011 10:20am
15th Jun 2011 10:20am
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Fatfairy Offline
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I used to manage a garage, they cant do this, unless its written into their contract, or there are signs up saying something like please pay up front after 7pm for example, and the cashier allowed them to fill up before paying, the companies rely on the fact people wont kick up a stink cos they need the job, I managed a shell garage, although they are franchaises run by private business men, or at least they used to be,

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #533378
15th Jun 2011 10:56am
15th Jun 2011 10:56am
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TheDr Offline
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I did get a chance to look this up, but out again now.
Check the Employment Act 1996, it was revised in 2009 but the part relating to Unlawful Deductions remains the same.
I wasn't far out, although I did forget that they can withhold wages on court issued attachment of earnings orders as well as Tax and NI.
Your wages are protected, in retail if your till has a shortfall, and you are the only person who could have used it, then it can be written into your contract that you must make up that shortfall (strangely they don't allow you to keep the excess if it is over). However, and it doesn't matter what your contract says, they can't deduct more than 10% of your wages per payment run, although they can deduct up to 10% each time until it is cleared. This does not apply to your final wage as they can then clear outstanding amounts.
There are a few hoops they have to jump through, notifying you etc, however I would point out that in this case the till is not out, it is a simple theft of stock, and if the owners did not make reasonable precautions, or it is not written into your contract that you are responsible for "leakage" then they can't take anything at all from you.

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #533387
15th Jun 2011 11:06am
15th Jun 2011 11:06am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Generally most garages used to charge you if you didn't get the reg number. Of course, a few employees used to make up reg numbers if they didn't get them - which spoilt it for everybody because others weren't believed.

It may pay your mate to get his own little cheapo camcorder (£30 things + a large sd card) and locate it where it will catch the number plates - if someone drives off, phone the police immediately - they used to come quick quick on drive-offs and not unheard of that they would find those responsible within half an hour as the f-wits would go on a raz around with the free petrol.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

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Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #533587
15th Jun 2011 4:22pm
15th Jun 2011 4:22pm
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Posts: 140
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Necronuss Offline
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afraid that this sounds like a standard practice..wife had did done to her when she worked in a garage in 95 so goes back a bit does not seem fair tho, especially as the ... who drove off were most probably not legal anyway

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #533661
15th Jun 2011 6:52pm
15th Jun 2011 6:52pm
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 82
wallasey
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zippy49 Offline
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wallasey
Iworked in garages a few years ago the minute they started to take money out of staffs wages a few of us left,one garage i worked at told us to get reg and phone police so they didn t take any money out of wages.I wouldget legal advise about it though just to see were you stand.

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #537439
23rd Jun 2011 12:25am
23rd Jun 2011 12:25am

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PaulWirral
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It is simply immoral. That would be like taking wages off shelf stackers in ASDA if somone pinches a packet of biscuits.

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: ] #537514
23rd Jun 2011 9:03am
23rd Jun 2011 9:03am

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Nobody
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Originally Posted by PaulWirral
It is simply immoral. That would be like taking wages off shelf stackers in ASDA if somone pinches a packet of biscuits.


yeah, defo that paul

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #537739
23rd Jun 2011 4:46pm
23rd Jun 2011 4:46pm
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,406
wallasey
lau2908 Offline OP
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lau2908  Offline OP
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wallasey
if someone steals from the shop while he is working , he has to pay for whatever is stolen and told he has to try and stop them too, bad company

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #537960
24th Jun 2011 8:44am
24th Jun 2011 8:44am
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,888
New Ferry
Davey_Martin Offline
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That's a joke lau, as already said, if the company is unwilling to install adequate security measures, it's their problem and should not be putting it onto their employees. I assume the employees wouldn't have been told at their job interview that they are to be responsible for payments of "drive-offs".

They need to get some sort of regulator involved and get them to investigate it. It can't be legal/fair, surely?!

I found this with a quick google (although it's aus, a comment in there which i've "bolded" seems to give the only justification for them trying to do this...) although, again, it comes back to the quality of their security cameras!

Quote
Service station employer charging employees for “drive offs”

Allegations were received that a service station company was charging employees for “drive offs” (where drivers leave without paying for the fuel). The employer confirmed that their practice was for employees to be asked to pay for “drive offs”. Their reason was that if the registration number was not recorded, the company had no way of knowing whether a console operator may have given free fuel to a friend or partner.

After intervention by the Queensland Workplace Rights Ombudsman the employer gave an undertaking that the practice would cease and would rectify, with payment, if an employee sought to be reimbursed for “drive off” costs that had been previously charged.

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #538617
26th Jun 2011 11:29am
26th Jun 2011 11:29am

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Frog_Eyes
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I went for a job in a station last year sometime, and they did say that if anyone drives of and you don't get reg, it will get taken out of my money.. I see there point why it's done, and good on them or all the rats would be having them of...

Re: Is this legal ? unlawful deductions [Re: lau2908] #538732
26th Jun 2011 3:37pm
26th Jun 2011 3:37pm
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,315
Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
MattLFC Offline
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I went and filled up before at the A41 Esso, and haha, I forgot my wallet! I had to go in and give my details to the woman, who was quite willing to wait for me to nip home in the car etc...

When I paid, she was saying about those who drive off without paying, and said so long as they have the reg of the vehicle, their usually covered. She said it wouldnt be the first time, someone has been in the same situation as me, and actually driven off without telling her, she has contacted the plod and reported, only for them to come through the door 10 minutes later to pay!!

smile

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