some partys to go to today lol was at the wwe ppv when I heard this the place went nuts shouting U.S.A. U.S.A. XXX going to get my head down, before the partys
I've been reluctant to look at the news these last few days because I'm sick and tied of the Royal Wedding, after reading Davaw1 post i thought I'd flick the news on.
sorry for mentioning the royal wedding on this happy occasion.
Last edited by _jase_; 3rd May 20118:47am.
God help us, Come yourself, Don't send Jesus, This is no place for children.
Watch all the conspiracy theories start flying now, was it him, why dispose of the body before any post mortem examinations, donald trump has demanded his death certificate oouuuuuu,
Well done president Obama. Finished the job that bush could never finsh..
It wasn't Obama what done it, it was his troops. If Osama had been easy to get hold of it would have been done ages ago. Don't get carried away with the anti GW stuff and the anti US stuff, it clouds your judgement and makes you talk shoit.
Can we keep the jokes for the jokes forum please guys..
Watch all the conspiracy theories start flying now, was it him, why dispose of the body before any post mortem examinations, donald trump has demanded his death certificate oouuuuuu,
I think displaying the body could have been seen as gloating, and could have provoked revenge attacks.
Im just wondering if Al Qaeda members still thought he was alive - had he been alive, he had been hiding that long, were people still getting his orders etc....
I guess we shall have to see if allied troops pull out of Afghanistan - that may be the only way to tell if its true, and if it has worked.
Unfortunatly though, I feel there will always be a long line of extremist nutters willing to take his place
some partys to go to today lol was at the wwe ppv when I heard this the place went nuts shouting U.S.A. U.S.A. XXX going to get my head down, before the partys
Is it just me or is the thought of a load of people chanting 'USA USA!' just as disturbing as someone chanting 'Allah aqaba!'
Seems ok that a superpower can order a person's death...what happened to holding a trial?
Well done president Obama. Finished the job that bush could never finsh..
It wasn't Obama what done it, it was his troops. If Osama had been easy to get hold of it would have been done ages ago. Don't get carried away with the anti GW stuff and the anti US stuff, it clouds your judgement and makes you talk shoit.
Can we keep the jokes for the jokes forum please guys..
Get out of bed the Wong side today did we. My vews like you have yours The u,s have knowing were he was for 2 years now, were was bush. Then
Trust me Jase, if they'd known where he was then they would have had him, used to be in the Int game myself and it's not George W or Obama doing the job they are only the figurehead the same as Osama. And look at missguided asking about a trial, bloody hell. Not much real politik around sometimes. I'll get over it. I'm just chuffed that they have wasted him and I know he is going to be pissed off when he finds out there's no paradise and no virgins for him, but of course he can't be pissed off because he's gone. At times you sometimes wish there is a sort of brief afterlife just so you can see what a prat you've been, that would be poetic justice.
If he is truly dead, I cannot see why they would suddenly pull troops out of Afghanistan. The Taliban is still alive and well - a separate entity from which Bin Laden loosely fell out of...
Plus terrorist activity will surely increase, since Bin Laden can only be seen now as a 'martyr' in the eyes of all that follow that belief system and 'regime'.
C'mon Ste, it's an occasion that is worthy of comment even if you are from different sides of the spectrum. We know there will be some pay back but he couldn't just be allowed to carry on as though nothing had happened. I believe in Capital Punishment too, there's always got to be retribution and justice for the victims. It also acts as a deterrent in most cases. Justice has been served in this instance, in my opinion of course.
That's a god awful picture for 2011, looks like someone took this pic from a 10 year old camera phone. I read that they buried his corpse at sea as well, mighty odd for a country that went to the effort of displaying the corpses (and majority of the autopsies) of both of Saddam's sons.
I'll call bullshit until a decent picture is shown.
I think showing the dead mans face on the tv is very disttasteful. I cant understand why ther worried now about how to dispose of the body, or evan giving the remains dignity, its a bit late. Its like closing the stable door now the horse has bolted. ther was no dignity when they blew his brains out, so why worry about the remains. This was an assasination, i dont beleive they gave him time to give himself up atall. i would have preferd the man went to trial.
Some of the comments on a few of the arabic news sites (aljazeera arabic, sahafa, albawaba, arabnews) are quite disturbing. I think by claiming to have charged in and killed him the Americans have made themselves a bunch of new enemies.
what a perfect ending to the 4 day bank holiday. Starting with the Royal Wedding and ending with Bin killed. For those who would wished him to be put on trial, GET REAL. Thats all i can say.
Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten
I think showing the dead mans face on the tv is very disttasteful. I cant understand why ther worried now about how to dispose of the body, or evan giving the remains dignity, its a bit late. Its like closing the stable door now the horse has bolted. ther was no dignity when they blew his brains out, so why worry about the remains. This was an assasination, i dont beleive they gave him time to give himself up atall. i would have preferd the man went to trial.
Flying airliners into buildings is even more distateful. There was no dignity for all the innocent people he murdered on 9/11 or jumped to their deaths from the WTC. My how quickly some people forget... He was the the leader of an organization we are at war with who was caught in a shooting battle - he got what anyone else who shoots back at Navy Seals would get - at least one through the head, usually.
I think showing the dead mans face on the tv is very disttasteful. I cant understand why ther worried now about how to dispose of the body, or evan giving the remains dignity, its a bit late. Its like closing the stable door now the horse has bolted. ther was no dignity when they blew his brains out, so why worry about the remains. This was an assasination, i dont beleive they gave him time to give himself up atall. i would have preferd the man went to trial.
Flying airliners into buildings is even more distateful. There was no dignity for all the innocent people he murdered on 9/11 or jumped to their deaths from the WTC. My how quickly some people forget... He was the the leader of an organization we are at war with who was caught in a shooting battle - he got what anyone else who shoots back at Navy Seals would get - at least one through the head, usually.
All you americans were brainwashed by that bush fool.
They shud have kept the body and toured the country with it, so we could all piss on his rotting bones!!! The ... got his (well deserved, but a bit late!) cumuppance!
Now we have the retaliations to look forward to as the loopey ragheads "avenge their glorious leader who was slaughtered in cold blood.....etc bollox!!!"
They shud have kept the body and toured the country with it, so we could all piss on his rotting bones!!! The ... got his (well deserved, but a bit late!) cumuppance!
Now we have the retaliations to look forward to as the loopey ragheads "avenge their glorious leader who was slaughtered in cold blood.....etc bollox!!!"
Racism is OK because you didn't believe in the same things Osama did? That's kewl. I'm sure attitudes like yours haven't helped fuel 2 pointless wars over the last decade.
Im NOT a racist, i have coloured friends AND Muslim friends!! I wonder if Bin laden ever worried he would be classed as a racist when he destroyed all thoes poor peoples lives?? I suppose you would like to blame me for all the reprisals that will be dealt out now for posting my comment...!
he wouldnt have allowed himself to be taken alive!he will be seen by muslim nutters as a martyr,any normal person would love to see him hanged for what he did!i would of hoped for a bit of torture though!
Let's face it, I think this is the only outcome that could have been expected. He was always going to go out fighting. It ensures that he died a hero and a martyr to radical Islam =/
For a start why did they send in those helicopter? Its black opps FFS, they would only use such force for a castle or 'hard to gain access by foot' situation. They could have easily deployed some very skilled men, a mile away from the location and snook in. They must have obviously known that the guy was in bed and lightly guarded (there was only 3 others dead at the scene) so a small arms crew wouldn't have had to wake them all and done it silently, maybe even captured him.
How many of us could wake up, grab a gun and shoot at a crew of SAS guys? no one, he was shot dead, if he was there at all.
Now why on earth did they toss the body? There is just no logic in that what so ever?
Last edited by Sanchez; 2nd May 201110:04pm.
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
Now why on earth did they toss the body? There is just no logic in that what so ever?
So that no one could claim the body and attempt to make a shrine for it. He was dealt with according to Muslim tradition. Though I guess burying him at sea was to ensure no one could ever find him to do anything with him...
You and I both know summer that it wouldnt happen. Why through away something that I would want to see proof over. If someone told me something like that then I would like to see it firsthand or it didnt happen. God dammit everyone who believes this please wake up????
America are also going to start charging us £15 next year to enter their contry, a bit like turky does.
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
Now why on earth did they toss the body? There is just no logic in that what so ever?
So that no one could claim the body and attempt to make a shrine for it. He was dealt with according to Muslim tradition. Though I guess burying him at sea was to ensure no one could ever find him to do anything with him...
Who on earth is going to take it off the Americans?
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
They should have kept the body. They could have got one of his relatives to ID him and then released it for a proper burial. Would have been the smart thing to do, a show of compassion from the Americans would be a rare and influential thing.
Yup, totally agree ex0, They appear to be all thoughtfull etc by giving Osama 'the sailor????' a watery grave, when infact the real thing to do would be to call in some relatives (on friendly terms) to pay respects. But nooooo, lets launch his ass into the ocean???
I smell bull shit.
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
There would be no shrine allowed if it was on american ground. They could do what they always do which is lock it away and ignor all request to see it.
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
There would be no shrine allowed if it was on american ground. They could do what they always do which is lock it away and ignor all request to see it.
Let's face it, he should have faced trial. But the order was dead or alive and I'm guessing the people in question who lead the raid decided dead was better.
Poking around a bit it does look like the article was actually uploaded in 2006. Can check it on archive.org and a snapshot of the site was taken in 2008 (complete with picture..).
ex0 as must as I want to believe that I cant. It holds about as much ground to me as does his death. All I am certain about is you dont dispose of something you have been looking for for so long to keep a nation you have pissed off anyway happy?
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist myself so I won't believe it until it can be proven. The USGovernment has no credibility in my eyes. There's a huge amount to gain from claiming he's dead. Especially if he died long beforehand (no video footage for years now IIRC).
Why through away something that I would want to see proof over. If someone told me something like that then I would like to see it firsthand or it didnt happen. God dammit everyone who believes this please wake up???
Most fools will belive anything, this is yet just another conspiracy.
We already have the proof of the `photoshopped` image.
Whatever happened about the july bombings in London? Only one person mentioned that on Pete Price`s show tonight
This is the real world Ste,not some PS3 game, welcome to it mate, do you think the President of the United States would make an announcement like that and all the other world leaders chip in with their bit if it was a hoax or not definite. Do you think they would leave themselves wide open for Bin Laden to appear on film next week holding a copy of that days New York Times or Arab Times, i think not, as for the photo, no one knows where it came from, sky news and BBC news made that clear yesterday when they first showed it.
God help us, Come yourself, Don't send Jesus, This is no place for children.
This is the real world Ste,not some PS3 game, welcome to it mate, do you think the President of the United States would make an announcement like that
The american goverment is capable of lying bert...
Your absolutely right Sanch, we all know about propaganda, only on this occasion how easy would it be to prove the yanks and the rest of the world leaders wrong, as i said ealier, all they would have to do is film him holding a copy of a well known newspaper,dated after the said day of his demise and bingo, they would take great joy in doing that if they could.
God help us, Come yourself, Don't send Jesus, This is no place for children.
all they would have to do is film him holding a copy of a well known newspaper,dated after the said day of his demise and bingo, they would take great joy in doing that if they could.
Or a shoe on his head. If they dont have a problem with blasting him then why have a problem proving it was him?
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
I suppose in the near future conclusive proof will be given to those who count, what would they hope to achieve by all this being a hoax or propaganda, knowing full well this could stir things up were innocent people could loose their lives. Perhaps by not parading his dead body around the world they are showing the prick some level of dignity, God knows why though, I'd drag him around every major city in the world.
God help us, Come yourself, Don't send Jesus, This is no place for children.
all they would have to do is film him holding a copy of a well known newspaper,dated after the said day of his demise and bingo, they would take great joy in doing that if they could.
Or a shoe on his head. If they dont have a problem with blasting him then why have a problem proving it was him?
The Americans say they have a picture of him (dead) and are debating if they should relase it!
O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever ...
But may I add, the ONLY reason they MAY lie about the death is because they haven't a clue where he is & therefore this masterstroke may flush him out. I'm confident he's brown bread & therefore I'm going to get on with the rest of my life.
OBL was supposedly bumped in 2007 as per Benazir's statement, USA, UK didn't release this info as they needed a scape goat and some form of validation for the war on terror. Interesting also that she has since been assasinated.
Yanks buy what ever their spoon fed, sheeple who don't question what they are being told.
Interesting that the fella who pioleted the twin tower plane was trained in a cessna. Slightly different kettle of fish i'd say. It's like taking your test in a micra and then trying to jump into a F1 car and expect to drive it. My uncle is a captain for BA and has also pointed out the level of skill required to pin point that building would have required a greater degree of Skill than that provided by the flight instructor in the light aircraft,
Seems a bit suspect that the body has been so quickly disposed of without any confirmation of his true identity a complete opposite from what happened with Sadam, i'd also note the failed gaddafi attempt and dodgy BO birth certificate and consider that this is a diversion tactic to cover the recent gaffs.
All just my oppinion but i wouldn't be so quick as to take what the MSM are reporting as fact, these peeps are sppon fed the same shi* and then peddle it to the masses so it must be fact ?
Interesting that the fella who pioleted the twin tower plane was trained in a cessna. Slightly different kettle of fish i'd say. It's like taking your test in a micra and then trying to jump into a F1 car and expect to drive it. My uncle is a captain for BA and has also pointed out the level of skill required to pin point that building would have required a greater degree of Skill than that provided by the flight instructor in the light aircraft,
Pretty sure that the guy in this book stated that the 911 hijackers were trained on larger passenger aircraft in Arizona. Has been too long since I've read it though and I'm not entirely sure what his exact description of the planes were, but IIRC they flew bigger than Cessna's. Good book, well worth reading.
Thanks for that ex will have to have a read of that, i was always let to believe it was small Cessna 172's did a quick google on that point and come up with this, there's bound to be a bit of variation and hear say but as i mentioned before the chap who told me is first captain, lives and breathes aviation unlikley that bein the boffin he is he got it wrong
The chap supposedly piloting the Boeing got rejected from a solo flight on a cessna so they wouldn't even trust him in one
Suprising as they really are a piece of pi** to fly as are the Pipers, i got my first few hours in a Piper PA38, rickety bins that they are hehe
I'll have a quick skim through when I get home in half an hour or so and see if I can find it.
Yeah, it states here while the author was hanging out with the soon to be 911 bombers and their friends the saudi's took 747 flight & mechanics courses and 747 flight lessons. The majority of them took ultralight and then small aircraft flight lessons on the side as well.
The guy that (allegedly) flew a plane into the pentagon was certified as a passenger plane pilot in 1999 (Hani Hanjoor).
Yanks buy what ever their spoon fed, sheeple who don't question what they are being told.
You don't think that maybe, you might just possibly be over-generalizing there, just the teeniest little bit? What an asinine comment.
Hi CV
Sorry if i offended, i don't think that was a daft comment mate as theirs probably a higher number who buy into the BS than those that, it was a generalisation but to be fair it's not to wide of the mark, its probably nearer 70% who believe what they are spoonfed, on the same side of the coin its also a generalisation from the yanks that any one fron an Eastern state is probably a terrorist or are affiliated with terrorism.
The point is the Americans lap up anything they are told by the american media especially the likes of CIA funded CNN which is obviously going to report the news the way the goverment want you to hear it.
I've been to the states numerous times and they seem to live in their own bubble all that gets reported is American news is stuff in America, very rarely do they pay attention to anywhere bar the states unless its a foreign country that they're stealing oil from or have a conflict of interest such as China or Russia. I found that very strange that they assume they are top of the tree, i once got asked by a girl in Walmart if the British celebrated Christmas WTF, ignorant isn't the word, the world doesn't revolve around America as much as they like to think it does they only stomach the British because mosy of the bloodline is mixed in with those of presidental candidates, odd that those that become elected have always got some royal blood in them somewhere, any country that takes its orders from Skull and bones needs their heads checking. It's not a snipe at you CV you are obviously one who thinks outside the box and doesn't take it lying down like all those muppets at ground zero chanting, mindless to say the least, interesting aswell that most of the americans i've spoken to will not even entertain the fact it was an inside job and get really defensive about it amazing how people can be brainwashed
I'll have a quick skim through when I get home in half an hour or so and see if I can find it.
Yeah, it states here while the author was hanging out with the soon to be 911 bombers and their friends the saudi's took 747 flight & mechanics courses and 747 flight lessons. The majority of them took ultralight and then small aircraft flight lessons on the side as well.
The guy that (allegedly) flew a plane into the pentagon was certified as a passenger plane pilot in 1999 (Hani Hanjoor).
Nice one Ex, ping over any usefull links you may have it's always interesting, best to stay open minded and try pick up the info from as many reliable sources possible and then make your own assumptions based on what you find. I didn't know Hanjoor was commercially trained will do a bit of homework on that, so thanks for the shout. Have you heard that it was supposed to be a stinger that hit the pentagon and the debris that was planted was from a different aircraft again which raised suspicions in the first place ?
I'll have a quick skim through when I get home in half an hour or so and see if I can find it.
Yeah, it states here while the author was hanging out with the soon to be 911 bombers and their friends the saudi's took 747 flight & mechanics courses and 747 flight lessons. The majority of them took ultralight and then small aircraft flight lessons on the side as well.
The guy that (allegedly) flew a plane into the pentagon was certified as a passenger plane pilot in 1999 (Hani Hanjoor).
Nice one Ex, ping over any usefull links you may have it's always interesting, best to stay open minded and try pick up the info from as many reliable sources possible and then make your own assumptions based on what you find. I didn't know Hanjoor was commercially trained will do a bit of homework on that, so thanks for the shout. Have you heard that it was supposed to be a stinger that hit the pentagon and the debris that was planted was from a different aircraft again which raised suspicions in the first place ?
Theres no way you could get that sort of damage sustained by the Pentagon with a Stinger missile,The Stinger is a shoulder mounted Anti-Aircraft missile,In my opinion the Pentagon would have had to have been hit by a Cruise missile to cause that damage,that is far more feasable than by being hit by a B757,In any catostrophic air accident the engines almost always remain fairly intact but not in the Pentagon incident!!!
Good call Oitsnik, thats the one i was reffering too, sorry my bad it was a cruise ballistic missile that is supposed to have punctured the perimter wall, the parts they found where supposdly different from the plane they where reporting to have hit the Pentagon, some of my facts are off as it was a while ago and i'm recounting the things i've heard over the years of the top of my head, i'll google it and see if i can see what aircraft they where supposed to be, their was a cracking documentary my dad showed me a few years back called loose change, its on youtube and a lot of the stuff they say makes sense, good thing is the people testifing aren't your local village cranks but repetuble / responsabile peeps who have held positions such as fire marshalls, defense staff blah blah worth a watch dude
coincidentally an anagram of Osama Bin Laden is "Lob da man in sea" 10 years searching.. Trillions of dollars spent.. Thousands of soldiers dead. Smart-bombs. Cruise missiles. Un-manned drones. Sattellite technology. And the USA finally found Bin Laden in his fookin house!
...it was a cruise ballistic missile that is supposed to have punctured the perimter wall, the parts they found where supposdly different from the plane they where reporting to have hit the Pentagon, some of my facts are off as it was a while ago and i'm recounting the things i've heard over the years of the top of my head, ...
So the people who watched the airliner full of passengers fly into the Pentagon and the soon-to-die passengers who were talking to someone on their mobile phone, were all having a mass hallucination, were they? It was really a missile that you say that the Americans FIRED AT THEMSELVES?? And then you have the nerve to say that Americans will "believe anything they are fed"? Mind you you did also admit in your own words that "some of my facts are off" - well you don't say!!!!! <Good grief!>
Cv no one said that never happened, two or three planes did indeed hit intended targets but piloted by unskilled afghan pilots
Whats a few civvies lives in the grand scheme of things, to them greed, money + wealth are more important than human life, all in the name of oil, how do you justify going into foreign countries to take their oil? usually on the basis that they happen to be a global threat and are all terrorists, like the so called wmd's that Hussain had, where are they? eh cough
I'd take everything with a pinch of salt, why exactly did they choose to throw his body in the sea btw ?
coincidentally an anagram of Osama Bin Laden is "Lob da man in sea" 10 years searching.. Trillions of dollars spent.. Thousands of soldiers dead. Smart-bombs. Cruise missiles. Un-manned drones. Sattellite technology. And the USA finally found Bin Laden in his fookin house!
Did you just forget the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians?
One of the American officials even found it necessary to mention that the commandos weren't sure that he wasn't wearing a suicide belt/vest, as if all terrorists wear them daily or something.
Ex the plot thickens, give it a few months and it will all come out in the wash, their all walking arounfd with their eyes wide shut and can't see further than their noses.
I cant wait to see the supposed photos they are debating releasing, (busy photoshopping)
One of the American officials even found it necessary to mention that the commandos weren't sure that he wasn't wearing a suicide belt/vest, as if all terrorists wear them daily or something.
Who cares if he was unarmed? You think if we ("the Allies" just in case you have forgotten) had been able to get a shot off at Hitler, during WW2, that anyone would given a toss whether he was armed or not? Get real people. This man was reponsible for making air travel and general security (remember London buses etc) into a complete nightmare for EVERYONE in the World not just the USA - and we are ALL better off that he is GONE and not lingering around for his nut-job followers to use an an excuse for further acts of slaughter.
If he was unarmed, surely the American Army have breached IHL??
Oh boo-hoo! The US armed forces (aka one of "the ALLIES") probably did that once or twice somewhere between 1941 and 1945 too but maybe you would rather be speaking German? Oh and what part of "NAVY Seals" did you not get? (In other words, it wasn't the "American Army"...).
what about all the un-armed people in the world trade centre? just a thought!
Delta your right, the argument is who's hands the blood is on, yanks or incapable afghans, CV everyone is entitled to their oppinions we understand your American and are rightly being patriotic but if anything your proving the point regarding brain washing and you can't see past your own nose
Why yanks always have to bring you be speaking german into it, grow up, didn't do to well in Nam did we, Notice how when the Brits aren't there told hold your hands, note that the language you speak is English not the otherway around,
You keep refering to Allies, if thats the case whats with all the friendly fire, absolute joke, its proven fact CIA had a hand in ther bay of pigs fiasco, supply arms to forigners and flooded the american market with coke and heroin in the 80's,
Do yourself a favour mate, stop being so ignorant go read a few history books and come back when you have a valid point, we all adults here, all that we helped you win the war crap, on your level - how many world cups again ?
If you have an attention span of over an hour, watch this video
I'll give you a £100 CV if you can sensibly counter even one of main points in this documentary, i trust the american BIASED media hasn't aired this yet, unsuprisingly
I think anyone that cares about South Asian/Middle Eastern/Islamic relations cares about whether he was unarmed or not. If he was unarmed he should have been captured alive and given a trial, that's the way justice works. Killing him outright with no trial is not justice. It's not a 'win' for America.
It's worth noting that a lot of Islamic media is focusing on the Americans dumping his corpse in the sea. That's considered to be far more important than whether he was unarmed or not, food for thought.
Quote
This man was reponsible for making air travel and general security (remember London buses etc) into a complete nightmare for EVERYONE in the World not just the USA
This is simply incorrect. The TSA & American security theater is your own fault, no one elses. Americans were willing to give up a significant portion of their freedoms because of one successful attack in a decade. There's holes to be poked in every aspect of air travel security - no liquids on planes for example. There's never been any suggestion or intel that bombers planned to use liquid explosives on planes. It was simply suggested by a professor at some university who wrote a hypothetical paper and that's the cause of us having to carry clear liquids in clear containers. I'm pretty sure the TSA hasn't actually caught any terrorists - ever.
Quote
and we are ALL better off that he is GONE and not lingering around for his nut-job followers to use an an excuse for further acts of slaughter.
I don't agree with this either. Osama Bin Laden did not kill for sport or for fun - he killed because he believed that what he was doing was right. That makes him no more dangerous than George Bush or any soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan. The fact that he had a lot of followers is because he was a symbol for their cause. You can't stamp out something like terrorist cells by killing a man who had 15 minutes of fame for ALLEGEDLY masterminding those 911 attacks. His followers haven't needed his guidance for a very long time, the atrocities commited by the allies in Iraq and Afghanistan have provided more motivation than any of his grainy video and audio footage ever has.
The hitler thing isn't worth responding to - it was a completely different situation. It really is a whole seperate argument, but the Americans would have sat on their asses for a lot longer if Pearl Harbour hadn't happened. Don't pretend that American involvement was the reason that the Allied Forces won WW2 - it's historically wrong.
You have GOT to be kidding me. If you really believe what you just wrote and you are not simply trolling, then I am in despair. You are so lost I am sorry for you.
Funnily enough that's what I think when I see the majority of Americans posting anything to do with terrorism (and related subjects).
Please don't see that as my having a go at Americans either, from a psychological point of view its fairly easy to understand why Americans tend to behave a particular way when this is the subject at hand.
Anyone who can claim what you did about US involvement in WW2, renders anything else you may have to say, completely worthless.
You are either a complete and utter fool or a troll - I don't know which, but either way, you (and Nelzy) may be interested to know that you are the only two people to ever make it to my 'ignore' list. Or not, I really don't care.
Have fun in your imaginary world of make-believe - I don't have to read it any more.
Funnily enough that's what I think when I see the majority of Americans posting anything to do with terrorism (and related subjects).
Please don't see that as my having a go at Americans either, from a psychological point of view its fairly easy to understand why Americans tend to behave a particular way when this is the subject at hand.
CV your grasping at straws here, what ex is saying is your no different from those idiots at ground zero who are shouting the odds off.
The phrase "Baaaa" jumps to mind, to be fair this was a sensible open debate, till you jumped in with your patriotic blinkered views, truth of the matter is rest of the world have yanks decked, your entiltled to your oppinion just as everyone else, coming down to a childish ignore level shows your mentality i doubt Ex is bothered they are on ignore list and neither am I, don't pick fights you can't finish, we might see eye to eye in another 10 years when you wake up.
It's not even worth mentioning the rothschild aspect as i doub't you'd grasp the reasoning behined that either, lost cause follow the pack like the rest of them.
Don't pretend that American involvement was the reason that the Allied Forces won WW2 - it's historically wrong.
We wouldn't have stood a chance in WW2 without the American involvement - and the only reason they got involved in the European fighting is because we paid them to. British history books tend to ignore what the Americans achieved by using the term allied troops.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
And vice versa DD, i'm sure you'll agree, I'm struggling to pick out one specific skirmish that the Americans actually made a difference, stange how my grandparents don't share that view my Gramps was a gunner and told me many a tale when i was younger, he was speaking from first hand experience and with absolute emotcion when recalling dog fights etc, he didn't rate them one bit and was educated at Eaton he certainloy wasn't ignorant far from it , i was led to believe their involvment was due to a forced hand
I think that's very harsh on the many Americans that lost their lives in WW2. America was neutral, it wasn't their territory, it wasn't their fight. Luckily they did change this stance, they did enormous damage to the German fleet and it is highly unlikely that we could have repatriated France without the Americans.
I am not sure but d-day may have involved more Americans than Brits I believe, again our books suddenly use the term allied troups.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
The actual war in Europe began with a series of events:
* Germany took Austria (1938) and the Sudtenland (1938) * The Munich Pact was created (1938) with England and France agreeing to allow Hitler to keep the Sudtenland as long as no further expansion occurred. * Hitler and Mussolini created the Rome-Berlin Axis military alliance to last 10 years (1939) * Japan entered an alliance with Germany and Italy (1939) * The Moscow-Berlin Pact occurred promising nonaggression between the two powers (1939) * Hitler invaded Poland (1939) * England and France declared war on Germany (September 30, 1939).
The Changing American Attitude
At this time despite Franklin Roosevelt's desire to help the "allies" (France and Great Britain), the only concession America made was to allow the sale of arms on a "cash and carry" basis.
Hitler continued to expand taking Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, and Belgium. In June, 1940, France fell to Germany. Obviously, this quick expansion got America nervous and the US began to build the military up.
The final break in isolationism began with the Lend Lease Act (1941) whereby America was allowed to "sell, transfer title to, exchange, lease, lend, or otherwise dispose of, to any such government....any defense article." Great Britain promised not to export any of the lend lease materials. After this, America built a base on Greenland and then issued the Atlantic Charter (August 14, 1941) - a joint declaration between Great Britain and the US about the purposes of war against fascism. The Battle of the Atlantic began with German U-Boats wreaking havoc. This battle would last throughout the war.
The real event that changed America into a nation actively at war was the attack on Pearl Harbor. This was precipitated in July 1939 when Franklin Roosevelt announced that the US would no longer trade items such as gasoline and iron to Japan who needed it for their war with China. In July 1941, the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis was created. The Japanese began occupying French Indo-China and the Philippines. All Japanese assets were frozen in the US. On December 7, 1941, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor killing over 2,000 people and damaging or destroying eight battleships greatly harming the Pacific fleet. America officially entered the war and now had to fight on two fronts: Europe and the Pacific.
Ten years, millions of bullets, five hundred thousand rockets, ten thousand cruise missiles, a billion tons of bombs, thousands dead, invasions, tanks, helicopters, spy satellites, fleets of warships, stealth bombers, fighter jets, the SAS, SBS, CIA, FBI, MI5, MI6, Navy Seals, Trillions of dollars,
and they finally found him.........................in his house.
I'm not sure where this anti American feelings all started, probably in the music halls or maybe Hollywood had something to do with it, I'm not sure. In reality many thousands of American lives have been lost along with British and many other nationalities and some respect should be shown. I can't understand why some contributors to this thread have an opinion that when we got involved in World Wars that America should have been involved from day one, both started in Europe, so why should the USA get involved. Thankfully they eventually did. What should be remembered is not only the troops they put into the theatres of war but the industrial might that came with them, its true they were the only country to come out of WW2 showing a profit, but the the nature of arms sales etc, we sold arms across the world before the world wars and still do so today, thats commerce. We do it for profit. To understand the involvement of the USA in the first world war and as some would say their late arrival, research should be done on how the country was at that time, they did not have the might of today nor that of WW2, in fact they had a small Army and not much of a navy, in terms of strength. Still fresh in their minds was their own civil war and the Mexican wars, no wonder there was a reluctance to get involved in a war thousands of miles away. To understand the starting of WW2 there is a need to go back to the end of WW1 and what happened in the years between, again why would the USA feel the need to get involved in a European war in 1939. As far as the killing of Bin Laden goes, I'm glad some on here are now convinced he's dead, whatever his beliefs were, we all have our own beliefs but we don't go around blowing people up to get our point across, i see no wrong in eliminating him the way they did, he didn't believe in trials and justice, good riddance to him. Lets move on and get the next.
God help us, Come yourself, Don't send Jesus, This is no place for children.
They weren't armed. Looking at the pictures that's 3 out of 4 of them were killed with side on headshots (executed, in other words).
Whereas all those people in the twin towers were well tooled up with computers, mobile phones and brief cases, which was just asking to be slotted eh??????
Whereas all those people in the twin towers were well tooled up with computers, mobile phones and brief cases, which was just asking to be slotted eh??????
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I'm pretty sure the thousands of people they killed weren't all carrying guns.
Defensive much? I never passed any judgement, I simply stated that the way they were killed suggests they were executed.
I do believe if they were unarmed they should have been taken prisoner and given fair trial, but that's just me. Silly me thinking justice is something the Americans should be promoting rather than revenge.
Edit: Also, pretty sure that none of the guys in these pictures personally killed thousands of people, btw.
Edit: Also, pretty sure that none of the guys in these pictures personally killed thousands of people, btw.
No but the person they were trying to protect is directly responsible for it, and if they want to protect something which is nothing short of evil then they're just as guilty.
nothing short of evil then they're just as guilty.
That's a very short sighted view. As I said earlier to someone, I don't think he was evil. People that kill for the sake of killing, for sport, serial murderers, those are evil people. So in that respect he's no more evil than George Bush. Both had ideals and beliefs, both took action on them.
It's worth remembering that in his eyes he absolutely believed he was doing what was right. In his eyes he was good and we were evil.
Check this link out, it's a fascinating look at Bin Laden from a guy that was intelligent enough to post without letting emotion cloud his judgement. He basically says the same thing I'm trying to say but much more eloquently.
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A fellow human being, a member of our species, has been killed.
Osama was like any other person. He wasn’t evil. There is no such thing as evil.
Often members of our species carry out acts of violence that are detrimental to a societies welfare. Often such people have suffered greatly themselves from similar violence, or they have received a brain injury, or for ideological reasons they claim that what they have done is for the benefit of society.
We are a very closely related species and share a common human nature. Part of what makes us who we are is our unique life histories.
If you are from a modern developed country then you may find Osama’s behaviour appalling. However, if you had been kidnapped as a child and raised in Pakistan perhaps you would have fought with him.
Osama never claimed to fight for the sake of Terror. Born into a wealthy family and being one of about 52 children born to his father Osama grew up in an ultra religious country and was educated at radical Islamic institutions.
At 22 years of age he left behind the luxury that a wealthy life in Saudi offered in exchange for the discomforts of warfare in one of the world’s poorest countries against the Soviet army.
Known as modest, soft spoken, generous, charming and brave in battle; Osama claimed to believe, as he had been brought up to believe and educated by his society to believe, that there was only one true god and that Muhammed was his messenger. Osama claimed to believe that the worst possible crime was to deny this god, and that the only way to save oneself from an eternity of torture was to worship the one true god according to this god’s teachings delivered through Mohammed.
Osama didn’t claim to fight solely for the oppressed in Afghanistan, but also for the American people themselves, that they might be saved from hell.
Osama isn’t in hell, like a whole bunch of delusional people think. When you die your brain stops working, there is no ghost in the machine, there is no way that it will continue to function. If you had a bad accident and damaged part of your brain your behaviour may become very strange to your family and friends. That’s because you are no longer the same person and never will be again. There is no soul.
I wish everyone well. Sure, people can do some pretty messed up shit, but they are still complex and interesting creatures with their own pains, pleasures and dreams.
I wish Osama’s family well. Sounds like the US commandos killed Osama right in front of some of them. They will have to deal with the loss of a husband, a father, a brother.
I’m not against war or killing. Sometimes the best thing you can do is fight and kill. I think it is good that the Taliban is being fought for the sake of the welfare of the Afghani people. If Osama had been an active Taliban commander who it made sense to kill from a strategic viewpoint then I would think it were a good act to kill him.
WWII (in European terms) was inevitably lost, when the Germans/axis made the drastic mistake of fighting a war on two fronts with the launch of Barbarossa; had they been able to go that little bit further in 1941 and take Moscow, there would have been little the Americans could have done to help the allied plight in Europe, because the Red Army (the largest Army in the world at the time) would have been under German control, as would the economic power and natural resources of Russia.
Alternatively, if they hadnt have decided to breack their peace treaty with the Soviets, then they would have annihalated the British forces without the support of the Soviets/the need to divert significant numbers of units towards the eastern front.
Furthermore, had they Nazi regime not diverted so many resource and finance towards things like their "final solution", then they may well have been in a stronger position to fight the war on both fronts.
To suggest that the US were somehow single-handedly responsible for winning WWII, when the German advances against Britain and Russia were already, for the mostpart, in stalemate, by the time the US came in, is laughable. As per usual, the US waited until the war reached a point whereby the European nations were essentially knocking the shit out of each other, with no hope either side actually coming away as "winners", before they deemed it time to join in; indeed it took the Axis to declare ware on the US, as a part of their alliance with Japan, for the US to become interested in joing WW2 (probably a mistake on the Nazi part, given how stretched they were already with the impending failiure of Barbarossa). Let us not forget, that under Hitlers vision for the Nazi New Order, the evnetual aim was to take control of North America, and a British defeat to the Nazi's would have certainly made that possible; at the time, there was a significant Nazi movement building in the US, and given that Hitler considered half of the US poulation (rightly or wrongly) to be jewish, or inferior, there is little doubt he would have seen the US (in addition to being the world ecomonic power) as a prime post-war target. The US would have had to declare war on the axis sooner or later, to prevent being smashed to pieces later on anyway; funny how they shurked away from doing so.
They are cowards, not the brave soldiers of the US Army who risk their lives to protect their country, but the administration. In fact, they are not just cowards, but they like to play the role of bullies too. They like to bully their way around in weaker nations - the biggest threat to US domination right now is China, but would they fook stand-up to China, because China would have none of it; so instead they go after terrorist/militant groups, and nations who can't fight back such as Afgahnistan and Iraq. They also back the biggest terrorist state on earth, aka Israel, and encourage them to invade and go after nations who do not have the ability or capacity to fight back (invading the likes of Lebanon due to a Syrian-backed militant group, causing humanitarian problems in the Gaza Strip for many years). They try to bully arab nations, usually with the goal of grabbing some oil, and then wonder why there is a hatred at worst, suspicion at best, of the US within the Arab/Muslim world.
DD, im not sure if you are referring to the German Fleet, as in their navy, but Hitler himself knew that the war was going to be on the ground and in the air, and the Royal Navy was always going to be an unbeatable force; it was the main reason Doenitz was made President of the Third Reich (aside from the face Goring and Himmler had been suspended due to them trying to grab power, Hitler would never have made either President at that point, as he blamed the army and airforce for the downfall) to suceed Hitler after his suicide, because in his last will and testament, he stated that Doenitz could shoulder no blame for the German failiure in WW2, due to the fact that the German Navy had little affect on the outcome of the war. Indeed, Hitler considered that the Navy would become increasingly important, after the war was won, with the possibility of a further war between the Nazi New Order, and Japan, utilizing the British Navy to head his warforce against Japan, knowing the German Navy was far weaker, and not up to the task.
Silly me thinking justice is something the Americans should be promoting rather than revenge. Also, pretty sure that none of the guys in these pictures personally killed thousands of people, btw.
Revenge will do for me every day of the week. I wonder if you would be making that statement if you were Eugene Armstrong's wife after you'd just seen your husband slowly beheaded ? What sort of trial did he get ? Furthermore what sort of filth would film the slow agonising beheading of another human being and release that film to the world to promote their own political aims ? Regarding the ... in the pictures I'm also pretty sure they never personally killed thousands. I'm also pretty sure that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the rest never personally killed thousands. They were only giving orders right ? Just like Bin Laden. Lets not forget the SS guards who ran the death camps for Hitler.They were only helping out, following orders. Just the same as the filth shown dead in these pictures.
So your entire argument is that the Americans, supposedly representing the civilised world, should aspire to be no better than the guys that beheaded Eugene Armstrong?
Is it worth me pointing out the literally dozens of different situations where American troops slaughtered Iraqi civilians and raped young girls before killing their entire families or does your analogy not stretch that far?
So your entire argument is that the Americans, supposedly representing the civilised world, should aspire to be no better than the guys that beheaded Eugene Armstrong?
Exactly, we in the west, cannot go around proclaiming to be a civilised and democratic society that shows compassion to our enemies and respects the Geneva convetion and IHL, and then carry out acts that our leaders publically condem when not carried out by themselves.
Regardless of who Bin Laden was/wasnt and what acts we stood accused of carrying out, if he were not armed, he should have been arrested and sent to trial.
There is a valid argument, in that not only have the US made him a martyr to other Arab/Muslin terrorists and militant groups by killing him, but they have also given him the easy way out, instead of making him face up to the terror he has (allegedly) caused to others.
They are cowards, not the brave soldiers of the US Army who risk their lives to protect their country, but the administration. In fact, they are not just cowards, but they like to play the role of bullies too. They like to bully their way around in weaker nations - the biggest threat to US domination right now is China, but would they fook stand-up to China, because China would have none of it; so instead they go after terrorist/militant groups, and nations who can't fight back such as Afgahnistan and Iraq. They also back the biggest terrorist state on earth, aka Israel, and encourage them to invade and go after nations who do not have the ability or capacity to fight back (invading the likes of Lebanon due to a Syrian-backed militant group, causing humanitarian problems in the Gaza Strip for many years). They try to bully arab nations, usually with the goal of grabbing some oil, and then wonder why there is a hatred at worst, suspicion at best, of the US within the Arab/Muslim world.
This is my kind of argument against the U.S and, again us actually. We're helping the Libyan rebels, because they have oil. Wasn't this sort of rebellion happening in Burma not to long ago, but then, Burma doesn't have many, if any useful rescources so we'll let the weak get slaughtered by their government because it does no good to us.
So your entire argument is that the Americans, supposedly representing the civilised world, should aspire to be no better than the guys that beheaded Eugene Armstrong?
Exactly, we in the west, cannot go around proclaiming to be a civilised and democratic society that shows compassion to our enemies and respects the Geneva convetion and IHL, and then carry out acts that our leaders publically condem when not carried out by themselves.
Regardless of who Bin Laden was/wasnt and what acts we stood accused of carrying out, if he were not armed, he should have been arrested and sent to trial.
There is a valid argument, in that not only have the US made him a martyr to other Arab/Muslin terrorists and militant groups by killing him, but they have also given him the easy way out, instead of making him face up to the terror he has (allegedly) caused to others.
Er, since when did we EVER show "compassion" to our enemies? In particular, the ones we are at war with? Have you ever heard of Dresden, by any chance? How many of the Dresdeners were checked for arms, or read their rights, or offered the chance to surrender?
Where DO you get this stuff from? What is it about WAR that you do not understand? It is not a game like cricket, played by gentlemen! GROW UP for goodness sake. There are just times when bad things have to be done that NONE OF US LIKES. If you do not like the decision that Obama made then TOUGH!
And "allegedly"????? ALLEGEDLY? What - do you REALLY think we have been after this guy (and he has been IN HIDING!!) for ten years, for something that he MIGHT have done??? - but we oh dear, we aren't too terribly sure and we'll need a Judge to rule on it before we can go INTO BATTLE????? Good grief man your political correctness becomes utterly laughable!
Last edited by CVCVCV; 5th May 20117:35pm. Reason: forgot to quote
He may still be alive but kept as a prisoner to be interrogated about other terrorists and their whereabouts. A story about his death to stop others running for cover before they can be scooped up.
Were any of the USA soldiers killed or wounded and were the remains of a helicopter in the compound Bin Ladens' or the Americans
I heard it was an American chopper. The SEALS themselves blew it up, after it suffered a 'mechanical failure'.
I read that while it was making a fast landing its tail rotor clipped a wall of the compound and was damaged enough that the heli couldn't take off. They destroyed it themseves to prevent the heli technology falling into enemy hands, there's been some speculation that the reason for this is that the helicopter was a modified version of their workhorse heli (blackhawk) equipped for stealth operations. It aparently had a sound muffler in the shape of a big disk by the tail rotor.
There's a fantastic programme from Al-Jazeera called 'I knew Bin Laden', worth watching if anyone is bored for 45mins (or interested in what Osama Bin Laden was really like). Loads of interviews with people that met him and spoke to him (even one of his bodyguards).
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Take him out boys! 
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