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#502405 - 14th Apr 2011 7:37pm Moseley Avenue
Helles Offline
Wise One

Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
My great grandparents lived at number two Moseley avenue Liscard. Small rows of terraced houses there now but can anyone say if number two was the same or was it a bigger house?

Seem to have been a fair sized family around the time of the first war and relatively wealthy although I suppose at the time it wasn't unusual for big families to live in small terraced houses.

Is there a map available showing number two around the time of the first war?

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#502461 - 14th Apr 2011 9:06pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: Helles]
jemarc Offline
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Registered: 27th Feb 2010
Posts: 226
Loc: tranmere
my dad lives in moseley avenue now, they are only small 2 up 2 downs

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#502463 - 14th Apr 2011 9:09pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: Helles]
nightwalker Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 17th May 2010
Posts: 374
Loc: new brighton
On the 1911 census numbers 1 and 2 Moseley Avenue (presumably the houses at the Wallasey Road end) are shown as having 5 rooms while all the others have 4.


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
1911Census-RG14-22-0-71-22071_0027_03.jpg




Edited by nightwalker (14th Apr 2011 9:10pm)

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#502475 - 14th Apr 2011 9:20pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: nightwalker]
Helles Offline
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Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: nightwalker
On the 1911 census numbers 1 and 2 Moseley Avenue (presumably the houses at the Wallasey Road end) are shown as having 5 rooms while all the others have 4.


Were the McKeown's there then? Also what was the name of the licensee of the Pub virtually opposite Moseley Ave? The Castle I think it was, known locally as the garden?

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#502485 - 14th Apr 2011 9:38pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: Helles]
nightwalker Offline

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Registered: 17th May 2010
Posts: 374
Loc: new brighton
No...Edwin GREGG, his wife and 6 children. The licensee of The Castle was William BRIDDEN

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#502489 - 14th Apr 2011 9:50pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: nightwalker]
Helles Offline
Wise One

Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: nightwalker
No...Edwin GREGG, his wife and 6 children. The licensee of The Castle was William BRIDDEN


Cheers for that. Must have moved in not long after because they were there (Moseley Ave) in the court of enquiry papers regarding the death of one of the sons in France in 1919.

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#502497 - 14th Apr 2011 10:05pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: Helles]
nightwalker Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 17th May 2010
Posts: 374
Loc: new brighton
If it's James and Mary McKeown, parents of Edward (and 8 other children), then in 1911 they were living in 13 Merton Road, Liscard which I think is just round the corner from Moseley Avenue

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#502511 - 14th Apr 2011 10:19pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: nightwalker]
Helles Offline
Wise One

Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: nightwalker
If it's James and Mary McKeown, parents of Edward (and 8 other children), then in 1911 they were living in 13 Merton Road, Liscard which I think is just round the corner from Moseley Avenue


Certainly is. News to me that and yes it is at the end of Moseley ave. Not sure if the cut through is still there but there used to be when the school clinic was in Merton road. Thanks again.

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#502759 - 15th Apr 2011 1:17pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: Helles]
marty99fred Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 11th Mar 2009
Posts: 470
Loc: Pensby
Originally Posted By: Helles
My great grandparents lived at number two Moseley avenue Liscard. Small rows of terraced houses there now but can anyone say if number two was the same or was it a bigger house?

Seem to have been a fair sized family around the time of the first war and relatively wealthy although I suppose at the time it wasn't unusual for big families to live in small terraced houses.

Is there a map available showing number two around the time of the first war?


Map of Moseley Avenue and surrounding area from the 1911/1912 Edition OS. To the best of my knowledge the houses in Moseley Avenue have always been the same as they are today; maps show there was nothing on the site before the terraced properties were built.


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Liscard.JPG



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#502925 - 15th Apr 2011 7:42pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: marty99fred]
Helles Offline
Wise One

Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
The extra room has me baffled if they were all the same build. The two bigger buildings on the end I assume are classed as Wallasey road and not Moseley Ave? If it was just a terrace then they must have been packed in like sardines. I know they had cash because the great grandfather helped out with donations to build St Hilda's school or so I am told. His son's family i.e. my grandfather got no help because he married a protestant. As he died quite young and left a big family, they could have done with some help.

Couple of points on the map, no sign of the Castle Pub on it although the Wellington is marked as a PH and St Albans Terrace instead of road. Have I missed something because some of the family had a shop in St Albans road we always understood.

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#502941 - 15th Apr 2011 8:07pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: Helles]
nightwalker Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 17th May 2010
Posts: 374
Loc: new brighton
Originally Posted By: Helles
....some of the family had a shop in St Albans road we always understood.

1910 Kelly's Directory: Mrs Mary McKeown, beer retailer, 17 St. Albans Road.

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#502959 - 15th Apr 2011 9:20pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: nightwalker]
Helles Offline
Wise One

Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: nightwalker
Originally Posted By: Helles
....some of the family had a shop in St Albans road we always understood.

1910 Kelly's Directory: Mrs Mary McKeown, beer retailer, 17 St. Albans Road.


That's her. We were always told she was the first woman in Britain to hold a licence for an off licence or whatever they were called then. Had a photo but can't find it amongst the thousands on my PC. Will post it if it crops up. Scratch that, found it. Very battered photo but you can get the gist of it. My grandfather with little cart and his brother who was drowned in France.


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
003.jpg




Edited by Helles (15th Apr 2011 9:33pm)

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#503003 - 15th Apr 2011 10:34pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: Helles]
marty99fred Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 11th Mar 2009
Posts: 470
Loc: Pensby
Originally Posted By: Helles

Couple of points on the map, no sign of the Castle pub on it although the Wellington is marked as a PH and St Albans Terrace instead of road. Have I missed something because some of the family had a shop in St Albans road we always understood.


I've posted another copy of the map showing St Albans Road better - as you can see, in 1911 it hadn't yet been extended to meet Wallasey Road. I've also added maps of the same area from the 1899 Edition OS and the mid-1920s Edition, courtesy of old-maps.co.uk (though oddly on their webside the 1920s map is labelled as being from 1911 - it clearly can't be, as it shows the new Boot Inn which wasn't built until the mid-20s).

As for the Castle not being labelled as a PH, that was often down to the whim of whoever draughted the map, and also whether there was room to fit the letters in anywhere! Plenty of other pubs and beerhouses were never marked as such on OS maps.


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Liscard 1899.JPG

Description: Liscard 1899

Liscard 1911.JPG

Description: Liscard 1911

Liscard 1920s.JPG

Description: Liscard 1920s



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#503165 - 16th Apr 2011 4:05pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: marty99fred]
Helles Offline
Wise One

Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
Makes more sense now. Interesting to see a flour mill in the middle of Liscard. Thanks for that.

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#503276 - 16th Apr 2011 8:28pm Re: Moseley Avenue [Re: Helles]
nightwalker Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 17th May 2010
Posts: 374
Loc: new brighton
Originally Posted By: Helles
Must have moved in not long after because they were there (Moseley Ave) in the court of enquiry papers regarding the death of one of the sons in France in 1919.

I have a fascination for WW1 so I had a look at Edward McKeown's service records to see why he died in 1919 - I hope you don't mind. A very sad story. What I did notice was that when he enlisted in 1917 he gave his address as 60 Wallasey Road, which is also the address he gave for his father on the pay allocation form. This was also the address on the initial Army forms sent to his father following his death, though these were subsequently duplicated and sent to Moseley Avenue. It seems, therefore, that the family had at least 3 homes between 1911 and 1919, all in the same area of Liscard.

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