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#466414 - 27th Jan 2011 4:36pm Glassneven Terrace Mystery
Stranger Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Jan 2009
Posts: 111
Loc: New Ferry
Hi everyone, I've been dipping in and out of WikiWirral for a while now and thought it was about time I started posting.
I'll start off with a mystery that's baffled me for years, though I'm pretty sure, after reading through the many topics here, that this is the place to solve it.
I was born and brought up in Rodney St in Birkenhead.
Many years ago I was walking up the street from Borough Rd when I noticed an unusual rectangular stone plaque set into the upper brickwork of a house on the left hand side of the street. It's still there, and here's a photo of it taken last year........



I had always assumed that this was the original name of the lower part of Rodney St but I can't find any information on 'Glassneven Terrace' anywhere.
The 1876 OS map shown below shows that only the bottom half of Rodney St existed with houses yet to be built on the side where the plaque is situated.



To show where the plaque is located I've overlayed a modern map of the area onto the 1876 map



Highlighted the modern layout of Rodney St in green.



Then removed the modern map to show the modern layout on the 1876 map.



The red dot shows the approximate location of the plaque.
The plaque clearly says 'Glassneven Terrace 1876', yet in 1876 the street was clearly called Rodney St and furthermore in 1876 no houses were built where the plaque is situated.
Can anyone shed any light on this.

Rick.
Ps. I've just realised that this should probably be in the History Information Request forum.

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#466432 - 27th Jan 2011 5:15pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: Stranger]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
You are quite right, that terrace was built around 1890. It is not uncommon for a row of houses to have a "group name", there are quite a lot of these around Birkenhead.

Those houses were not built in 1882, but were built by 1902.

A slightly different spelling is Glassnevin, which has Glassnevin Villa in Oxton.

Only thought is it may have been an Irish builder who brought the plaque over from his previous property in Ireland.

If anyone is looking for the plaque, it is on number 35 Rodney St


Edited by diggingdeeper (27th Jan 2011 5:29pm)
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#466471 - 27th Jan 2011 8:07pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: diggingdeeper]
Stranger Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Jan 2009
Posts: 111
Loc: New Ferry
I know the full Rodney St as we know it now was built by 1888 (See Below).
I can't quite buy the Irish builder theory though.
I mean why bother building in a plaque with the wrong date on it ?
Surely the powers that be would have noticed and said "Get it out".
Or maybe not sherlock


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#466482 - 27th Jan 2011 8:30pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: Stranger]
Stranger Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Jan 2009
Posts: 111
Loc: New Ferry
Just found this snippet here http://www.whatlings.co.uk/4669/49724.html which suggests that Rodney St was built by 1881 !

"However, by 1881 Martha and Mary had moved upto Birkenhead with their Aunt Margaret (now Higginbottom). Martha (or Maria) was now Maria Watkins and she had a son Ernest. They were living in 103 Rodney Street Birkenhed and working as upholsterers'.The elusive Mr Watkins is not in residence?

The rest of the family followed around 1882. The reason is not clear but work as carpenters may have been plentiful during the construction of the Manchester Ship Canal?"

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#466522 - 27th Jan 2011 9:55pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: Stranger]
starakita Online   content

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Registered: 1st Oct 2009
Posts: 2274
Loc: between heaven & hell
I was brought up in Rodney street, my mum and dad still live there, we wondered about the sign.
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#466774 - 28th Jan 2011 8:03pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: Stranger]
nuddy Offline
Member

Registered: 29th Dec 2009
Posts: 92
Loc: birkenhead
Originally Posted By: Stranger
I know the full Rodney St as we know it now was built by 1888 (See Below).
I can't quite buy the Irish builder theory though.
I mean why bother building in a plaque with the wrong date on it ?
Surely the powers that be would have noticed and said "Get it out".
Or maybe not sherlock



Does anyone think the dashed line on this map is the route the railway was meant to take to Singleton ave trian station?

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#466776 - 28th Jan 2011 8:14pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: Stranger]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
Rodney Street was built long before most of the houses were built. The houses would appear to have been built in three separate tranches from initial inspection. I will put up a sequence of maps showing the growth later on if I get the time.

Helena Street seemed to be a later addition, despite what may have been a track running parallel with it getting eradicated.
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#466781 - 28th Jan 2011 8:38pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: diggingdeeper]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7947
Loc: tranmere
I think the answer is on whats behind that sign, which appears to be the original, probably sandstone, with the name carved on it, The sign thats there now would have been fixed directly to the brick courses and not have a sandstone block behind interupting the brick run. Just a thought but someone may have had a guess at the year.
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#466799 - 28th Jan 2011 10:13pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: bert1]
Stranger Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Jan 2009
Posts: 111
Loc: New Ferry
You're right Bert1.
The 'plaque' is only the carved face of a sandstone block built into the brickwork.
That's what makes me think it's an original feature. The carved face has just been picked out with cream paint.

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#466837 - 29th Jan 2011 6:11am Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: Stranger]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7947
Loc: tranmere
Sorry Stranger, probably never explained what i meant clearly enough, I can only go by the photo and other signs I've seen around. I'll have another go, the painted sign makes me think its made from cast or similar and fixed over the block that would have had the original name carved on it.
It needs someone to give it a whack to hear what sort of sound it makes.
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Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


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#466959 - 29th Jan 2011 3:18pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: Stranger]
marty99fred Online   Frustrated

Smartchild

Registered: 11th Mar 2009
Posts: 470
Loc: Pensby
Originally Posted By: Stranger

The 1876 OS map shown below shows that only the bottom half of Rodney St existed with houses yet to be built on the side where the plaque is situated.


Don't be confused by the "Edition" (ie publication) date of old OS maps. To get the actual date of the map you need to look at the Survey date in the small print at the bottom of the sheet; this is usually two or three years earlier than the publication date, as the map would have taken some time to draw up from the surveyed data. It's perfectly possible, therefore, that the datestone on the front of Glassneven Terrace represents the date the houses were actually built.


Edited by marty99fred (29th Jan 2011 3:21pm)

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#467061 - 29th Jan 2011 5:53pm Re: Glassneven Terrace Mystery [Re: nuddy]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: nuddy


Does anyone think the dashed line on this map is the route the railway was meant to take to Singleton ave train station?


Yes, quite likely. Here's another map with the proposed alignment: double dotted lines from the Valley Lodge, along the line of where Singleton Ave. will be, and another section from where the Borough Rd./Elmwood Rd.junction will be, to about the Derby Rd./Victoria Rd. junction. (I suspect this is why Maybank Rd. & Aspendale Rd. are shortened, see second map). These would align quite nicely with the line on the Rodney St. map.
(Ctrl +/- to enlarge & shrink maps)


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Clip17.jpg

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