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#465996 - 26th Jan 2011 4:38pm Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head
MerseyMan Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 17th Jan 2008
Posts: 526
Loc: Wallasey
According to my nan her grandfather Leonard Burton had a horse drawn tram company and it was later bought off them by the corporation. I have got a census here of my gt gt grandad which shows his family residing at Tram stables in Palm grove. Would this mean that he owned the company? My nan said he did anyway smile



Here are two images showing his son my gt grandad Alfred Burton with one of the trams, so there must be some truth to it. Can anyone find out if there is any truth to it please. Many thanks




I believe this photo was taken near enough outside the stables in Palm grove.

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#466013 - 26th Jan 2011 5:32pm Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: MerseyMan]
Helles Offline
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Registered: 28th May 2010
Posts: 887
Loc: Wirral
That would be an omnibus rather than a tram but there were tram stables in Palm grove so they probably progressed to trams (that ran on tracks).

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#466030 - 26th Jan 2011 6:12pm Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: Helles]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7948
Loc: tranmere
It is a possibility that he was a Foreman as described on the census form and accommodation came with the job, its a pity the person who filled in the form never included the next column, employer, worker, own account,
. Would someone who owned a company submit themselves as a foreman, why not owner or manager, even company director, on saying that, if your nan says he owned it, he probably did.
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#466134 - 26th Jan 2011 11:49pm Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: bert1]
hoseman Offline
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Registered: 30th Sep 2007
Posts: 2346
Loc: Bromborough
I think the stables are either where the new houses are now or the double glazing companies yard. I remember when they were clearing the yard, i was working on one of the machines and someone was saying it used to be an old stables/tram depot!
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#466158 - 27th Jan 2011 8:27am Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: MerseyMan]
OxtonHill Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 2nd Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Loc: Oxton
MerseyMan

I doubt Leonard Burton was the owner, he is merely the Foreman of the yard, the words next to it indicate he worked for the Corporation, this is the 1901 Census. If we look at the 1891 Census Leonard is a Foreman & tramway guard, living in Boswell Street, Bootle, Liverpool.
By 1911 Alfred his son is a tramway Motor Man for Birkenhead Corporation living at 354 Laird Street, Birkenhead.

The old tramyard in Palm Grove was situated where the new double fronted terrace row has been built near the junction with Slatey/Shrewsbury Road.
When the bulldozers moved in to break the yard up (Council not giving a stuff) we contacted the tram museum to ask them to rescue the stone lintal above the old tram offices, which had the corporation name on it, before it was smashed to bits. Which thankfully they did just in time.

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#466181 - 27th Jan 2011 10:25am Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: OxtonHill]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Here's a map from the 1890's showing the tram shed (street railway depot)in Palm Grove. On this map, Talbot Rd., near the tram depot, is now Mather Rd. This map is from before trams ran along Balls Rd. & Shrewsbury Rd. (which at the time was apparently in two parts, North & South). Also, you can see on this map that the Williamson Art Gallery was built on the site of an old reservoir attached to Springhill Water Works.


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Tram depot.jpg




Edited by chriskay (27th Jan 2011 12:50pm)
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#466264 - 27th Jan 2011 12:44pm Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: MerseyMan]
OxtonHill Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 2nd Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Loc: Oxton
After a little light digging sherlock and if your interested

in 1881 Leonard Burton was a pig dealer in West Derby.
in 1871 Leonard was a Farm Servant in Sedburgh, Yorkshire.
in 1861 Leonard was a scholar (at school) the son of a Cordwainer (a leather shoemaker) William Burton.
in 1851 William Burton is a shoemaker in Sedburgh.

So Leonard's parents were William Burton & Ann Handley who married in Sedburgh in 1850 (Ann Handley's parents were William Handley & Mary, he was a carpenter & she was a Woolen jacket knitter)

in 1841 William Burton is living with his parents John Burton & his wife Margaret a shoemaker of Dent, Sedburgh Yorkshire.
William probably named his son, after his brother also called Leonard.

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#466410 - 27th Jan 2011 4:24pm Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: OxtonHill]
OxtonHill Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 2nd Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Loc: Oxton
Forgot to say, Leonard Burton married Betsy Kendal in 1874 in Kendal, Betsy was born in 1855 in Killington, Westmorland. Her parents were John Kendal & Jane. John was a labourer.

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#466549 - 28th Jan 2011 12:41am Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: OxtonHill]
hoseman Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 30th Sep 2007
Posts: 2346
Loc: Bromborough
AND i remember the stone!!!! Thank you for jogging my memory.
I remember it in the corner of the yard when the machines were there! wasnt it broken or something if my memory serves me?
_________________________
IF IT HAS A HOSE THEN IM YOUR MAN

BETTER TO BURN OUT THAN FADE AWAY!

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#466572 - 28th Jan 2011 8:27am Re: Gt Gt grandad's tram company Palm Grove B-head [Re: hoseman]
MerseyMan Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 17th Jan 2008
Posts: 526
Loc: Wallasey
Thanks for all the information everyone smile
I have a lot of that information on my ancestry profile, but I couldn't find Ann Burton's maiden name now I have it smile Cheers.


Edited by MerseyMan (28th Jan 2011 8:29am)

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