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#457889 - 4th Jan 2011 10:03pm which house did frederick bailey deeming live??
rocketqueen Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 31st Oct 2010
Posts: 537
Loc: birkenhead
apparently frederick bailey deeming was meant to be living in derby rd, tranmere before he committed the terrible murders in rainhill, liverpool...

he is also a jack the ripper subject....

does anyone know which number derby rd he lived in,

also just as a point of interest for wirral historians, but there are 2 suspects who came from the wirral..one of them is fred deeeming, the other is the founder of thompsons mission...

i find this fascinating that 2 suspescts can come from this area....
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#457891 - 4th Jan 2011 10:05pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: rocketqueen]
rocketqueen Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 31st Oct 2010
Posts: 537
Loc: birkenhead
a little bit of info is here..
Frederick Bailey Deeming

Frederick Bailey (also written Bayley) Deeming, born in 1842, was said to have had an unnaturally strong relationship with his mother. Upon her death in 1873, Deeming became emotionally distrought, and remained in such a state for quite some time afterward.

A seafaring man, Deeming one day fell prey to a severe attack of "brain fever" while on a voyage, and many contend that he never quite recovered from the trauma. On several occasions he is noted to have committed acts of a ludicrous nature and afterward claiming that his mother had told him to do so from beyond the grave.

Despite his emotional instability, Deeming met a woman during one voyage, eventually marrying and having four children by her.

Deeming was also quite well known for his criminal activities, and in 1887, while stationed in Australia, he was jailed for fourteen days under a charge of bankruptcy. It seems Deeming's particular expertise lay in fraud, since Australian police were known to have confronted him several times on such pretenses.

In 1888, Deeming moved his family to Capetown, South Africa, quickly earning the reputation of a cheat. He moved again to Johannesburg, where his moral actions grew no better.

Deciding it best for his family to move to England, he sent them to live in Merseyside. Deeming himself soon followed. They lived what seemed to be a relatively normal existence until it soon became apparent to neighbors that his family had disappeared. Deeming contended that his wife and children had simply "gone away."

Returning to Australia, Deeming soon remarried and again, his wife mysteriously disappeared. Also again, Deeming asserted to suspicious neighbors that she had gone abroad for business reasons. In Christmas of 1891, Deeming left the house.

A few months later, the owner of the house had begun to show prospective renters the lodgings, and when they would ask what the repugnant odor was in the dining room, the owner could offer no explanation. Once the neighbors told her of the disappearance of Mrs. Deeming, she called in the police to life the floor boards. There she lay, Deeming's second wife, her throat cut and her body in advanced stages of decomposition.

The police in Liverpool were notified to keep watch for Deeming, and upon lifting the floorboards of his house they similarly discovered his first wife and four children -- all five throats had been slashed.

Deeming was caught and arrested in March of 1892 in Perth, Western Australia.

Newspapers began publishing stories commenting that Deeming had been sighted in Whitechapel in 1888, and that he was furthermore seen to have purchased knives in the area. While in prison, Deeming told his fellow inmates that he was indeed Jack the Ripper, but never confessed to authorities.

Deeming contended that a venereal disease he had contracted during his many voyages had caused him to have eptileptic seizures and brain disease which caused him to kill. In court, he angrily stated to the jury that the press had already unfairly sealed his fate. Later, he stated that those present in the courtroom were "the ugliest race of people I've ever seen."

The jury took little more than an hour to find him guilty, and Deeming was hanged on Monday May 23rd, 1892.

The only two links Deeming may have had with the Whitechapel murders were (1) his insanity and (2) his method of killing his family. However, the press, in search of a scapegoat for the murders, hastily threw suspicion on Deeming, neglecting the fact that he was in South Africa at the time of the murders.

Nevertheless, for many years the death mask of Deeming was shown to visitors of New Scotland Yard as that of Jack the Ripper. Today, it is held in the famous Black Museum. Although few still contend that Deeming was a possible suspect, his notoriety in the case will forever be held by the following verse:

On the twenty-first of May,
Frederick Deeming passed away;
On the scaffold he did say --
"Ta-ra-da-boom-di-ay!"
"Ta-ra-da-boom-di-ay!"
This is a happy day,
An East End holiday,
The Ripper's gone away.

Just one final note -- in a theory so unwound by the evidence of conflicting dates, it is perhaps a play by the author of the poem to have written that it was "On the twenty-first of May" that Deeming died, when it was widely known that he actually died on the twenty-third.


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deeminghanged.jpg

Description: Contemporary drawing of Deeming's execution

deathmask.jpg

Description: Plaster casts of the head and hand of Deeming


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'Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.' Dr Seuss.

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#457893 - 4th Jan 2011 10:09pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: rocketqueen]
Bezzymate Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 24th Apr 2010
Posts: 5551
Loc: New New Brighton
Facinating.Thanks RQ.X

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#457914 - 5th Jan 2011 1:53am Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: Bezzymate]
RUDEBOX Offline

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Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 19141
Loc: Here.
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#458043 - 5th Jan 2011 12:29pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: rocketqueen]
ronnie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 13th Jan 2009
Posts: 113
Loc: wirral

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#458058 - 5th Jan 2011 1:11pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: ronnie]
poodlepup Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 6th Oct 2010
Posts: 3973
Loc: wirral
someone with access to census records could maybe find his address
my membership has expired so sorry i can't help much
julie
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#458080 - 5th Jan 2011 1:54pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: poodlepup]
nightwalker Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 17th May 2010
Posts: 374
Loc: new brighton
I've had a quick look at all the census records and can't find anything for Frederick Deeming, which is not surprising the way he moved around. Also, a report of the trial in Australia states that he was arrested under the name of Albert Williams and the police found that he had operated under many other aliases such as Duncan,Drewn,Dobson,Harry Dawson,and Watson. I think it's unlikely that we'll be able to track him down in Birkenhead.

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#458092 - 5th Jan 2011 2:24pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: rocketqueen]
ronnie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 13th Jan 2009
Posts: 113
Loc: wirral


Edited by ronnie (5th Jan 2011 2:31pm)

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#458125 - 5th Jan 2011 4:18pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: ronnie]
nightwalker Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 17th May 2010
Posts: 374
Loc: new brighton
Great stuff, Ronnie. When I checked the census records I was working on a birth date of 1842 but it now appears that it should have been 1853. This appears to be him:

1861 Census Return for Queen's Place, Bebington, Cheshire
Thomas Deeming (Head), 37, b. Warwickshire, Atherstone. Whitesmith
Ann (Wife), 35, b. Atherstone
Edward (Son), 15, b. Atherstone. Whitesmith
Thomas (Son), 13, b. Atherstone. Whitesmith
William (Son), 9, b. Leicestershire, Ashby. Scholar
Frederick (Son), 8, b. Ashby. Scholar
Albert (Son), 5, b. Lancashire, St Helens. Scholar
Walter (Son), 3, b. Kent, Eltham. Scholar
Elizabeth (Daur), 1, b. Cheshire, Tranmere
Jane Vardon (Lodger, Widow), 75, b. Berkshire, Windsor

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#458134 - 5th Jan 2011 4:35pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: rocketqueen]
ronnie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 13th Jan 2009
Posts: 113
Loc: wirral
No problem, this is the website with all the information on http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/deeming/default.htm

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#458140 - 5th Jan 2011 4:40pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: ronnie]
poodlepup Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 6th Oct 2010
Posts: 3973
Loc: wirral
great find well done
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#458147 - 5th Jan 2011 5:38pm Re: which house did frederick bailey deeming live?? [Re: poodlepup]
rocketqueen Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 31st Oct 2010
Posts: 537
Loc: birkenhead
well done great find, thankyou peeps.....xxx
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