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#455327 - 28th Dec 2010 4:45pm alfa romeo 147
fabby Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Sep 2009
Posts: 110
Loc: new ferry
Recently my alfa 147 2.0 selespeed has started running like a dog and as its an alfa my usual garages wont touch it tuning wise my other alfa specialist is in st helens which is a a logistical nightmare
Ive changed plugs , filters ,checked sensors etc etc but its running foul and guzzling the petrol can anyone recommend a decent tuner who is cheap

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#455348 - 28th Dec 2010 6:00pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: fabby]
DavidB Offline
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Registered: 7th Dec 2003
Posts: 5608
Loc: Bebington, Wirral
Is the timing correct? I heard these engines don't like belts.
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#455405 - 28th Dec 2010 7:17pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: DavidB]
fabby Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Sep 2009
Posts: 110
Loc: new ferry
I will probably get belts done at same time as tune ,hopefully it is something that simple and cheap

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#455413 - 28th Dec 2010 7:22pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: fabby]
TheDr Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 23rd Feb 2010
Posts: 2631
Loc: Wirral
Mike, I've sent you a few pm's asking for contact details on Peugeot....

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#455420 - 28th Dec 2010 7:25pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: TheDr]
fabby Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Sep 2009
Posts: 110
Loc: new ferry
Hi TheDr Ive replied sorry for the delay

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#455422 - 28th Dec 2010 7:28pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: fabby]
TheDr Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 23rd Feb 2010
Posts: 2631
Loc: Wirral
It arrived just as I posted this, no worries, I've passed your details on so hopefully he'll give you a call soon.

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#455465 - 28th Dec 2010 9:43pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: TheDr]
dan0h Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 27th Aug 2010
Posts: 309
Loc: Wallasey
Check the MAF, its a known Alfa/Bosch issue, I had a 156 V6 for two years, put three MAF's on it... Not my last Alfa, but certainly the last time I have one as my only car!
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#455478 - 28th Dec 2010 9:59pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: dan0h]
fabby Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Sep 2009
Posts: 110
Loc: new ferry
i disconnected the maf and it still ran bad

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#455491 - 28th Dec 2010 10:20pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: fabby]
dan0h Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 27th Aug 2010
Posts: 309
Loc: Wallasey
Well - it will do, it needs that to meter the air mass being drawn into the engine, from that mass it then calculates the base fuel needed. If it made no difference at all with the MAF off, its likely the MAF.

If the MAF is voltage based (a hot-wire MAF) then you can check its output, probably be around 0.9 to 1.2 V at idle, if its anything further out than this, its likely goonered.

However - the Germans (who made all the engine electrics for the 147 - Bosch) are quite clever sorts, so I suspect the MAF is more likely a Karman-Vortex sensor, which outputs a frequency, in which case you'll need an OBD reader to see the air mass reading.

Failing that again, another possibility is the IAT (Inlet Air Temperature) sensor, this "might" be built into the MAF, again an OBD reader needed for that one - it corrects base fuelling against air temperature (as airs density changes with temperature).

And finally, the only other sensor that has a say on base fuel quantity (and its the biggest say of them all) is the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature), once again, sad to say - its an OBD reader job.
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#455501 - 28th Dec 2010 10:30pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: dan0h]
chris_gilly Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 15th Feb 2009
Posts: 1950
Loc: tranmere
pm ill throw it on my diagnostics machine and view live data. best bet to catch a dodgy sensor/ iffy timing.

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#455503 - 28th Dec 2010 10:32pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: dan0h]
dan0h Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 27th Aug 2010
Posts: 309
Loc: Wallasey
As a side note - if you have an Alfa as a daily driver, invest in this -> http://www.alfadiag.net/

If you buy the software, I have the correct OBD cable you need, which you can borrow if needs be.
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#455505 - 28th Dec 2010 10:37pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: dan0h]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve (EGR) is also a favourite. On some cars you can disconnect the vacuum tube, block of the inlet end and open the oil cap to effectively remove the EGR system as a quick check at idle.

The other things to look out for are air leaks (even very small) in the inlet system from the MAF onwards. Blocked EGR recirculation vacuum pipes, especially if they have a limiting jet in the pipe or at the ends.

Then there is fuel pump, injectors etc etc. What were the plugs like, any look different from the others?

From your description it sounds like its rough all the time, or is it just at idle?

Chris Gilly will do an OBD check for you and advise - he must be really ill today to have not jumped in by now.
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#455509 - 28th Dec 2010 10:56pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: diggingdeeper]
fabby Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 19th Sep 2009
Posts: 110
Loc: new ferry
I have got the cable and software unidiag i tried before the snow and was baffled im trying to teach myself how to use it had a good read of instructions tonight
i will run a diagnostic tommorow

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#455512 - 28th Dec 2010 11:06pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: fabby]
TheDr Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 23rd Feb 2010
Posts: 2631
Loc: Wirral
If I come down with Lukasz tomorrow I'll bring the Solus with me and see if it can read anything.

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#455517 - 28th Dec 2010 11:09pm Re: alfa romeo 147 [Re: fabby]
dan0h Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 27th Aug 2010
Posts: 309
Loc: Wallasey
Be aware that being a Selespeed car, there will be a number of proprietary fault codes (DTC's we call 'em) that aren't in ANY diagnostic tool, except for the genuine Fiat Examiner (the official tool used by Fiat/Alfa). So hopefully your fault is in something generic.

While something like a Sun Modus will talk to every car in basic scan-tool mode, only the proper manufacturer tool can do things like set up the selespeed position sensors and solenoids. This I think has to be done if the engine ECU is replaced.
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