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#439416 - 26th Oct 2010 6:27pm Bidston Moss flyover
detsi Offline
Addict

Registered: 6th Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Loc: wallasey
Does anyone know what on earth is going on? I've been told that the Eiffel Tower and the network of the London sewers were built in a shorter spell of time than these flyover repairs have taken so far.
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#439460 - 26th Oct 2010 9:10pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
Bezzymate Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 24th Apr 2010
Posts: 5551
Loc: New New Brighton
Good point.I think they go on till 2012 though!

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#439477 - 26th Oct 2010 11:42pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: Bezzymate]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Thats because they are ongoing like, well... forever! The flyover has some serious issues (fundamental construction flaws) and basically needs knocking down and rebuilding from scratch. I did read a good report on the issues and why they exist etc a few years back, they had done feasability studies on alternatives but alas it will never get knocked down

Everytime they work on it they say it will fix it long-term and then 6-18 months later its being worked on again!

What is really pissing me off atm is the mess
that is the New Ferry bypass, absolutely pathetic state of affairs!

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#439481 - 26th Oct 2010 11:55pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: MattLFC]
cathie Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 19th Feb 2009
Posts: 448
Loc: Birkenhead
New Ferry bypass is the biggest pisser...seriously gettin on my t**s now somad

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#439490 - 27th Oct 2010 12:31am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: cathie]
tigertiger1953 Online   content

Smartchild

Registered: 5th Sep 2010
Posts: 475
Loc: United Kingdom
Well it's not rocket science but somehow the 1970's engineers and their successors seemed oblivious to the fact that Bidston moss was a marsh and you can't build on a marsh. Also the box sections they used have since acquired a reputation similar to that of the staircases Barrett's fitted in their 1970s homes.
As well said by Matt........knock it down and start again.

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#439514 - 27th Oct 2010 7:29am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
MikeT Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 23rd Apr 2010
Posts: 574
Loc: Canary Islands
Originally Posted By: detsi
Does anyone know what on earth is going on? I've been told that the Eiffel Tower and the network of the London sewers were built in a shorter spell of time than these flyover repairs have taken so far.
It was built using box section steel, experimental at the time, and which has been used successfully in warmer climates. But no-one factored in the Brit weather, so it started rotting from day one. Since the engineers realised it was corroding away it's been an ongoing process of patching it up when, as others say, it would have been cheaper and quicker to knock the bloody thing down and rebuild.

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#439555 - 27th Oct 2010 1:33pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: MikeT]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Yes, as well said in previous posts, time for a new one. Only this time GET IT RIGHT !!!

The box section sketch was disaster. It had to beefed up after only a year or so following a collapse of a similar structure in Oz (?). Piles driven into boggy ground are a waste of (our) money unless they are down to bedrock, no matter how deep you have to go. The old "proper" railway engineers new this in the 1800's.

Build a new viaduct alongside the "old" one, then blow the old one up. A couple of penny bangers should do it !!

Who pays for it ? Well the original architect, specifiers, contractors or their descendants of course. They made megabucks out a shoddy job at our expence.

Rant over. Where's dem pills ?

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#439558 - 27th Oct 2010 2:33pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: ]
Stegga Offline

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Registered: 28th Feb 2009
Posts: 261
Loc: woodchurch
In the early 80's I worked with a couple of blokes who were involved in the pile driving for this bridge when it was first built. I remember them saying that in certain places they would position one of the piles, start the pile driver and it would drive it straight in with just a couple of whacks, it literally fell into the ground. "I'll never forget the "shhloooooop" noise they made as they just disapeared" were his words.
Don't hold your breath on this one being the fix to end all fixes.

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#439559 - 27th Oct 2010 2:46pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: Stegga]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Well Stegga, that just about says it all eh ??

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#439672 - 28th Oct 2010 11:58am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: ]
tigertiger1953 Online   content

Smartchild

Registered: 5th Sep 2010
Posts: 475
Loc: United Kingdom
I heard similar tales at the time of building it. The bottomless marsh and the box sections rusting from the inside quicker than a Montego explains it all. But who designed it and who sanctioned the work? Obviously these people arfe living (if alive) on fat pensions while the rest of us pick up the bill for repair after repair.

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#439702 - 28th Oct 2010 3:11pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: tigertiger1953]
Nigel Offline

Wise One

Registered: 26th Mar 2010
Posts: 850
Loc: Wirral
withthat
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#439887 - 29th Oct 2010 10:08am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: Nigel]
detsi Offline
Addict

Registered: 6th Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Loc: wallasey
It must be costing an absolute fortune. Costains have teams of men and machinery utilised. Who is paying for this and where is the money coming from?
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#439898 - 29th Oct 2010 11:49am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
little_pob Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 30th May 2008
Posts: 444
Loc: Upton
Originally Posted By: detsi
It must be costing an absolute fortune. Costains have teams of men and machinery utilised. Who is paying for this and where is the money coming from?

I don't recall seeing the usual signage saying who the contractors are working on behalf of. So, at a guess, the Highways Agency through general taxation. (IIRC, road tax is no longer ring fenced.)

Although the council and Merseytravel may be responsible for some of the cost as the motorway ends part way across the flyover.


Edited by little_pob (29th Oct 2010 11:52am)
Edit Reason: typo

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#506872 - 23rd Apr 2011 11:34am Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
wallaseyjohn Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 23rd Apr 2011
Posts: 21
Loc: Wallasey
I live within a few minutes walk of this epic failure.

I have also randomly come into contact with someone who claimed to have been involved in designing the flyovers around the Wirral. With my experience of them being, they've been in repair my entire life, I'm not sure if I'd have mentioned it personally. He was indeed living in a nice house, quite a good distance from Bidston Moss.

Every time I've seen it recently I've been wandering if it is being used as some kind of money suck project.

I barely EVER see anyone actually working down there - even realising the work needs doing inside the sections, there'll be one or two guys wandering around.

The scaffolding alone is immense. That must be chewing through money if it's being rented.

I would like some explanation of what they're actually doing, particularly if the council is paying any money towards it. You could indeed build a ship quicker than it's taken them to weld some plates to the inside of the boxes, which is what I've been told they're doing.

I never see anyone with a respirator on, or connected to an airline to crawl into the tubes, or any signs of welding.

If the entire underside of the boxes is scaffolded, does this mean sections of it are now rotted so badly a guy could fall through them?

Steel is used out at sea. The solution is usually to fix sacrificial blocks to the hull and paint it. Not weld bits on as it falls apart.

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#506935 - 23rd Apr 2011 1:10pm Re: Bidston Moss flyover [Re: detsi]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10792
Loc: Birkenhead
There's a lot to be said for arches, much more tolerant of movement in the foundations. I don't know why they haven't put arched supports under the existing spans. Box section bridges are renowned for problems.

I'm amazed they have corrosion problems, there are enough products out there to resolve water ingress.
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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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