WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Statistics
Posts1,028,025
Topics75,590
Members13,506
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs27
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
39 registered members (Baza7, 8 invisible), 1,478 guests, and240 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
499 WHAT PUB
New General Forums
George Carlin
by BultacoAstro. 10th Sep 2020 9:00am
Our Earth
by granny. 8th Sep 2020 10:02am
The Moon Landing ?
by BultacoAstro. 29th Aug 2020 4:58pm
Harry McGuire.
by casper. 28th Aug 2020 11:15am
New Wirral History
Birkenhead Trams 1876
by mikeeb. 17th Sep 2020 3:38pm
WHAT PUB
by derekdwc. 12th Sep 2020 12:51pm
365 Crown Vaults 34 Watson Street
by mikeeb. 1st Sep 2020 5:05pm
94 Clarendon Hotel 109 to 111 Chester Street
by mikeeb. 31st Aug 2020 5:54pm
Birkenhead and beyond
by snowhite. 31st Aug 2020 12:13pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
Topic Replies
70 Arab Arms
by mikeeb. 18th Sep 2020 12:47pm
Coronavirus
by MisterSmiff. 18th Sep 2020 12:31pm
Birkenhead Trams 1876
by mikeeb. 18th Sep 2020 12:18pm
375 The Warwick, Westbourne Road, Birkenhead
by bert1. 18th Sep 2020 11:15am
cat found,Wallasey
by muzzy2. 18th Sep 2020 10:41am
Classic Rock The Bands Are Awakening
by BultacoAstro. 18th Sep 2020 8:54am
Customer Is Always Right
by doggod. 18th Sep 2020 12:55am
WHAT PUB
by locomotive. 17th Sep 2020 6:36pm
Brexit Transition
by granny. 17th Sep 2020 6:33pm
September
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Community payback: defended on Merseyside #428895
3rd Sep 2010 11:46am
3rd Sep 2010 11:46am

_
_jase_ OP
Unregistered
_jase_ OP
Unregistered
_


Community payback defended on Merseyside as TV show depicts drug taking ‘holiday camp’



THE man in charge of community payback in Liverpool has defended the practice of making criminals do odd jobs after a Government minister described it as a holiday camp.

A TV documentary aired this week showed young criminals smoking drugs and drinking cups of tea while carrying out community service orders.

Commissioner for Victims Louise Casey, who helped develop the payback scheme, responded by calling it a “holiday camp for offenders” and called for changes in the way it is implemented.


But John Stafford, Chief Executive Officer of the Merseyside Probation Trust, said the region’s 90 payback schemes helped save the community £1.5m every year.

He said: “The Probation Service generally and community payback specifically, deal with some of the most difficult and demanding individuals in our society, and managing them is a major challenge. It is a tribute therefore to the motivational techniques and skills of our staff that we are able to complete the enormous number of projects we take.”

A Tonight investigation showed criminals on community service doing nothing for long periods, being left unsupervised, and even breaking the law by smoking cannabis while serving their sentences.

The footage was filmed over six weeks at projects in Manchester, Nottingham and Derbyshire.

Justice minister Nick Herbert said: “Offending should always have consequences, and those who commit crimes must be punished properly with sentences administered rigorously.

“The scenes in this film where offenders effectively stick two fingers up to the system made me extremely angry.

“There can be no excuses for it. The probation trusts concerned are carrying out disciplinary procedures against a number of staff and the Government expects the necessary action to be taken.”

Earlier this week probation union NOPA revealed that the shooting of a 19-year-old gang member in London was connected with his straying on to rival turf while carrying out payback.

Similar turf based threats have occurred several times on Merseyside during the past 18 months, though no one has been shot at in the city, and have resulted in convicts only being allowed to do payback within their own post codes.

Mr Stafford added: “The majority of offenders subject to community payback complete their orders without any problems. For the minority who fail to comply or who behave inappropriately however, enforcement action is taken and offenders are returned to court. It is very rare however for a project not to be successfully completed.”

A statement issued by the probation service said 75% of people on community payback had not reoffended within two years compared to 29% of those serving jail time.


THE ECHO

Google Ads
Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: ] #428898
3rd Sep 2010 12:00pm
3rd Sep 2010 12:00pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,227
New Brighton
_Ste_ Offline
Wiki Master
_Ste_  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,227
New Brighton
That I can quite believe, back in my days of being a tearaway driving with no insurance and banned etc I had to do community service, our officer used to take us in the Pub or to the Offie at dinner then we would be drinking in the summer sun whilst painting.
That's going back Quite a few years.

Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: _Ste_] #428905
3rd Sep 2010 12:27pm
3rd Sep 2010 12:27pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,191
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,191
tranmere
So what turned you into the fine upstanding Gentleman your are today.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: bert1] #428910
3rd Sep 2010 12:51pm
3rd Sep 2010 12:51pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,227
New Brighton
_Ste_ Offline
Wiki Master
_Ste_  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,227
New Brighton
Originally Posted by bert1
So what turned you into the fine upstanding Gentleman your are today.


I decided I couldn't beat the system and passed my test lol.
I grew up a little bit wink

Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: _Ste_] #428915
3rd Sep 2010 1:32pm
3rd Sep 2010 1:32pm
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,948
the village of wallasey
C
chev_chelios Offline
Wiki Guide
chev_chelios  Offline
Wiki Guide
C
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,948
the village of wallasey
I drink loads of tea and sit around doing nothing And get £13ph lol

Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: chev_chelios] #428921
3rd Sep 2010 3:13pm
3rd Sep 2010 3:13pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
at a computer
GrandMasterFlash Offline
Forum Master
GrandMasterFlash  Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
at a computer
I saw this programme yesterday, and it was stupid them all sitting around, but some of them said they want to be doing things because that's what they enjoy and they don't like being bored, which isn't right either, they're not there to enjoy themselves, hmmmmmm.

Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: GrandMasterFlash] #428922
3rd Sep 2010 3:16pm
3rd Sep 2010 3:16pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,227
New Brighton
_Ste_ Offline
Wiki Master
_Ste_  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,227
New Brighton
Should make em work in nursing homes cleaning pottys out smile

Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: _Ste_] #428923
3rd Sep 2010 3:17pm
3rd Sep 2010 3:17pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
at a computer
GrandMasterFlash Offline
Forum Master
GrandMasterFlash  Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
at a computer
Gross...Now that's a good idea! haha

Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: _Ste_] #428927
3rd Sep 2010 3:35pm
3rd Sep 2010 3:35pm
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 806
upton
R
raymondo Offline
Wise One
raymondo  Offline
Wise One
R
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 806
upton
Originally Posted by _Ste_
Originally Posted by bert1
So what turned you into the fine upstanding Gentleman your are today.


I decided I couldn't beat the system and passed my test lol.
I grew up a little bit wink


yeh me too a copper once told me (pc david alcock 7126 g division)i might have crossed his path once or twice lol that most offenders reach a certain age and stop breaking the law and he was right you carnt beat the law so might as well abide by it (within reason) bowdown busted

Last edited by raymondo; 3rd Sep 2010 3:37pm.
Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: raymondo] #428966
3rd Sep 2010 5:49pm
3rd Sep 2010 5:49pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,575
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,575
Birkenhead
If you aren't prepared to throw away the key or execute hardened criminals then you have no choice but to re-rehabilitate them.

These projects are not about punishment, they are about education, some (not all), find they are capable of doing something and may even enjoy it, this is often quite a shock to them after years of negativity thrown in their direction.

Most bad behaviour is learnt and taught by peers and family (and possibly televison etc), people can't do a lot about their environment and some are more gullible than others. They should be given a positive chance to amend their ways and see that there are alternatives.

The rest of them - go back to the first line of my post for a clue imho.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: diggingdeeper] #428975
3rd Sep 2010 6:23pm
3rd Sep 2010 6:23pm
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,683
Bebington, Wirral
D
DavidB Offline
Wiki Guide
DavidB  Offline
Wiki Guide
D
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,683
Bebington, Wirral
I know some kids who are downright vindictive little shites, and I know their parents are the same way - they learn it directly from their parents. If they let them get away with it, they'll try it on, knowing they'll get away with it.


"C20 LET bang"
Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: DavidB] #428983
3rd Sep 2010 6:51pm
3rd Sep 2010 6:51pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,575
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,575
Birkenhead
Has anyone seen the car-repair schemes at work for awkward young lads, the lad's are amazed at what they can do - it is a true revelation for many of them, once they get the bug, they tow the line because they don't want to get kicked off the course (I have seen lad's literally in tears on their knees begging not to get thrown off, despite being in-front of their mates).

I am not defending anyone here, I am pointing out the difference between punishment and education. They should also be punished, they have to learn responsibility for their actions, people saying its the parents at fault removes the responsibility from the kids, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, you've got to try and get the kids socially responsible and understand repercussions etc.

I feel sorry for some parents, you can't police your kids all the time especially when they are in a neighbourhood where other kids are left to roam, I can't blame some parents for giving up and others for not knowing any better.

You have to break the loop somewhere, and the most impressionable and immediate problem is the kids, that's where you have to invest your effort.

Pure punishment has a bad habit of just making people more careful and sneaky, I am sure many of us can associate with that in some way.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: DavidB] #428984
3rd Sep 2010 6:56pm
3rd Sep 2010 6:56pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
at a computer
GrandMasterFlash Offline
Forum Master
GrandMasterFlash  Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
at a computer
But they should be punished, one of the reasons behind these sentences is retribution, how does it make sense that someone can harm their victim in some way and get an education out of it? Rehabilitation yeah but apparently it's not doing that either!

Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: diggingdeeper] #428986
3rd Sep 2010 7:00pm
3rd Sep 2010 7:00pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,575
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,575
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by GrandMasterFlash
But they should be punished

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
They should also be punished, they have to learn responsibility for their actions


Glad we are in agreement thumbsup


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Community payback: defended on Merseyside [Re: diggingdeeper] #428997
3rd Sep 2010 7:37pm
3rd Sep 2010 7:37pm
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 818
tranmere
phalinmegob Offline

Wise One
phalinmegob  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 818
tranmere
i took a walk in birkenhead park a while back with the missus and there were guys doing community service,one of them had a mate who was fishing and he went off fishing with him for about an hour as we had a cuppa at the new cafe.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
cat found,Wallasey
by doggod. 17th Sep 2020 8:55pm
Birkenhead Trams 1876
by mikeeb. 17th Sep 2020 3:38pm
Spring fitting required
by gerrymoore. 17th Sep 2020 9:20am
Van carpet fitter
by Gibbo. 17th Sep 2020 9:16am
WHAT PUB
by derekdwc. 12th Sep 2020 12:51pm
For Sale & Free
Wanted Bultaco Astro Or Pursang 360 Model 104
by BultacoAstro. 13th Sep 2020 10:39pm
Wooden Single Bed, Headboard, Mattress and Drawer
by rhoobarb2002. 12th Sep 2020 5:07pm
Vauxhall Alloy Wheels - Astra, Corsa, Zafira etc.
by j_demo. 12th Sep 2020 2:44pm
2x2 seater leather sofas recliner
by paul110180. 7th Sep 2020 8:18am
2x2 seater leather sofas recliner
by paul110180. 7th Sep 2020 7:32am
Member Spotlight
zigzagwanderer
zigzagwanderer
Wallasey
Posts: 302
Joined: January 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Angus, Dawnio, Rosemarie, brook3, Barbarahart
13506 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Van carpet fitter
by Gibbo. 17th Sep 2020 9:16am
Tower road. Birkenhead and now Dock road
by keef666. 6th Sep 2020 1:53pm
Enjoy the street theatre!
by Excoriator. 5th Sep 2020 3:50pm
Laminate flooring
by casper. 4th Sep 2020 6:33pm
Self-Employment Income Support Scheme
by mikeeb. 23rd Aug 2020 3:05pm
News : New Topics
Award for Corbyn ???
by granny. 27th Aug 2020 10:41pm
Casper Specials
by granny. 23rd Aug 2020 5:39pm
Worlds oldest man dies aged 116
by mikeeb. 23rd Aug 2020 2:36pm
When Damascus Falls !
by granny. 13th Feb 2020 11:12pm
Coronavirus
by cools. 30th Jan 2020 5:38pm
New Enthusiast Forums
cat found,Wallasey
by doggod. 17th Sep 2020 8:55pm
Spring fitting required
by gerrymoore. 17th Sep 2020 9:20am
Customer Is Always Right
by BultacoAstro. 3rd Sep 2020 12:19pm
VW Golf TDi Cambelt
by TudorBlue. 1st Sep 2020 10:04am
A Fistfull of Dollars
by snowhite. 31st Aug 2020 5:07pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Fri 6:52am
Sunset Fri 7:19pm
Local Time Fri 12:47pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1