WikiWirral 13yrs online 24/7 365 days a year.
Forum Stats
12328 Members
65 Forums
73257 Topics
989206 Posts
71 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
69 registered (alan128, 10 invisible), 1393 Guests and 292 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
Finsbury Park mosque. 1199
Bexit Offer for EU Citizens 268
Washing machine 247
Range Rover P38A Air Suspension Help Needed 184
Loving Home Wanted For 3 Cats. 144
Loving Home Wanted For 3 Cats. 124
Benefit Cap is Unlawful 114
Ant and Dec 101
VW t4 fixed side window replacement 96
Deja Vu, Lightning Strikes Thrice, Groundhog Day 92
New General Forums
Deja Vu, Lightning Strikes Thrice, Groundhog Day
by fish5133
22nd Jun 2017 7:38pm
Ant and Dec
by cools
18th Jun 2017 2:11pm
Another Scam
by Excoriator
18th Jun 2017 10:00am
Happy birthday Ste
by Dilly
12th Jun 2017 7:54am
New Wirral History
Round the Wirral with a movie camera[1934]
by snowhite
16th Jun 2017 2:03pm
Bascule Bridge
by Sufee
6th Jun 2017 9:09pm
Pathe news short - merseytunnel 1934
by oldpm01
5th Jun 2017 1:57pm
1878 Post Office Directory of Cheshire query
by derekdwc
1st Jun 2017 10:41pm
Bakery at 275 Poulton Road 1925 onwards
by JAFitz
30th May 2017 8:59pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
wirral from Liverpool big wheel
New Brighton Big Wheel
Topic Replies
Bexit Offer for EU Citizens
by granny
14 minutes 47 seconds ago
Finsbury Park mosque.
by Dilly
Today at 12:16 PM
Loving Home Wanted For 3 Cats.
by lincle
Today at 12:03 PM
60 KG Weights set & exercise bars FOR SALE 40 !!
by GaryFromWirral
Today at 10:25 AM
What song are you listening to?
by snowhite
Yesterday at 11:37 PM
Where In The Wirral Is It??
by Mark
Yesterday at 01:25 PM
VW t4 fixed side window replacement
by lansyp
Yesterday at 10:22 AM
Unilever's Power Stations
by Jimbo620
Yesterday at 08:18 AM
Benefit Cap is Unlawful
by RUDEBOX
22nd Jun 2017 7:37pm
June
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Shotwick - Old And New (Hall and Solar Farm)
by diggingdeeper
18th Jun 2017 11:41am
Sefton Park
by diggingdeeper
17th Jun 2017 7:28pm
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#418598 - 7th Jul 2010 7:47pm Queensway ventilation shafts
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
I've been bothered for some time by the frontispiece picture in the book "1947 Outline Plan for Birkenhead". It's an aerial view, reproduced below. It shows the Birkenhead Queensway entrance just about ready for opening, which was on 18 July 1934. The picture seems to show some tiered seating ready for guests. The significant thing which is missing from the picture is the Woodside ventilation shaft, although the Sidney St. shaft is there. The location of the Woodside shaft is shown by the red letter Y on the picture.

My question has always been, was the tunnel opened before the Woodside shaft was built? As far as I can discover, the ventilation system has not been uprated throughout its working life, which would indicate, since the system is coping with the vastly increased amount of traffic, that the system was over-engineered in the first place & would probably have coped in the early days without the Woodside shaft.

The whole of the construction was recorded in pictures by the firm of Stewart Bayle & Co. for the Mersey Tunnel Joint Committee. Merseytravel, as their successors, still hold the originals. Incidentally, the originals are on a mixture of glass plates and sheet film, much of which is now in cold storage, at sizes up to 12" x 10", which accounts for the excellent detail.
My contacts at Merseytravel and Liverpool Museums have kindly given permission for me to use a few of these pictures here.

Apart from the first picture, all are dated. As you can see, even by 9th. September 1933, just 10 months before the opening, work on the Woodside shaft had only just started. The pictures from the Liverpool side are included for interest: note how quickly work on the North John St. shaft proceeded.

If anyone can discover for sure when the Woodside shaft was completed, I'd love to know. I've tried contacting the contractors, Sir Alfred Mc.Alpine, but they can't help.


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Queensway.JPG

Woodside1.jpg

Woodside2.jpg

George's dock.jpg

N.John St.1.jpg

N.John st.2.jpg


_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
Google Ads
#418600 - 7th Jul 2010 7:59pm Re: Queensway ventilation shafts [Re: chriskay]
Neil_c Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 27th Sep 2009
Posts: 417
Loc: birkenhead
I believe it was. This was due to an accident in an American tunnel just before the Queensway Tunnel was opened. Many people died of carbon monoxide poison from fumes. This caused a bit of a panic in tunnel world at the time and forced Basil Mott to think again about ventilation.

I know the buildings were built around the fans that are driven by huge Metrovik motors (still in use today).

They do mention the ventilation design quite a bit on the tour.

Have you tried contacting Wirral planning to see if they have any planning applications that were once filed with Birkenhead CBC?


Edited by Neil_c (7th Jul 2010 8:09pm)

Top
#418609 - 7th Jul 2010 9:07pm Re: Queensway ventilation shafts [Re: Neil_c]
uptoncx Offline
Veteran

Registered: 24th May 2008
Posts: 683
Loc: Wirral

The accident was in Pittsburgh in late 1930, and the ventilation system was re-designed, using what is known as an Upward Semi-Transverse system. In this system air is blown into the tunnel through ducts at road level and sucked out through exhaust chambers in the roof.

It seems unlikely that the tunnel would be opened before the Woodside station was built as this, along with the one at George's Dock are the main stations and supply air to the under river section of the tunnel.

The ventilation system was upgraded in 1963 to provide an extra 500,000 cubic feet of air per minute in the mid-river section (an increase of 20%).

Top
#418634 - 7th Jul 2010 10:34pm Re: Queensway ventilation shafts [Re: uptoncx]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Thanks, Uptoncx. I didn't know about the uprating in 1963. Interestingly, the book produced for the opening in July 1934 & re-printed in facsimile in July 1994, twice refers to the Woodside shaft using the term "when it is completed", so it wasn't complete whenever the book was printed which presumably would not have been long before the opening.
This book, which is still available as far as I know, is the definitive account of the building of the tunnel.(Unless anyone knows different). All the illustrations are from the Stewart Bayle collection. Last time I bought one it was 5: bargain.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#418672 - 8th Jul 2010 11:53am Re: Queensway ventilation shafts [Re: chriskay]
w10694 Offline
Addict

Registered: 31st Dec 2008
Posts: 242
Loc: cheshire
I have a book "The Mersey Tunnel", published by "The Mersey Tunnel Joint Commitee", undated, but I reckon just after 1950.

It mentions the unforseen ventilation problems (post the tunnel deaths in America), that forced a rethink. Experiments were also made in a 1000 foot walled off section on the Birkenhead side by Haldane and Hay.

The upshot was the construction of much bigger than anticipated ventilation systems, and an extra bill of 2,046,000, which almost caused the project to collapse. They had to go to parliament for a fourth time to borrow more money (in 1932), and it had the proviso that the toll period be increased from 25 to 40 years,.

The book also has a lot of very nice watercolours by Gordon Hemm.

It does not actually say the book is copyrighted anywhere, so is it ok to copy pictures ?

Top
#418679 - 8th Jul 2010 12:41pm Re: Queensway ventilation shafts [Re: w10694]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
I have that book too; bought it a couple of years ago from a book fair at Woodside.
As far as copyright goes, the pictures are copyrighted, whether stated or not. The photographs in the book are from the Stewart Bayle collection, same as the ones I put in the first post. He was commissioned by the Tunnel Joint Committee to document the project. Since I've been given the OK to use some pics., I can't imagine anyone will object if you do.
As far as the Gordon Hemm watercolours are concerned, they will still be in copyright. He died in 1956 & copyright exists for 70 years after death. Here's a bit I dug up about him.

Gordon Hemm (?1891--1956)
Born at Stockport, Hemm trained under C.H. Reilly at the School of Architecture, University of Liverpool. At the time of his collaboration with C.J. Allen on the University of Liverpool War Memorial (1927), he was a partner in the architectural firm of Foden, Hemm, and Williams, of Liverpool and Manchester. He was elected ARIBA in 1931. He was also the author of several books on Merseyside architecture and a painter of Liverpool architectural subjects, contributing to the RA summer exhibition in 1940 and 1947 (views of the Anglican Cathedral), and in 1953 (a view of the industrial dockside).
(sources: Builder, 27 May 1927; RIBA Journal [obit.], April 1957). [L1997]
_________________________
Carpe diem.

Top
#418687 - 8th Jul 2010 2:36pm Re: Queensway ventilation shafts [Re: chriskay]
w10694 Offline
Addict

Registered: 31st Dec 2008
Posts: 242
Loc: cheshire
I always wondered who he was, I'll be ancient by the time the copyright runs out. It was a very well documented project by any standards.

Top

Moderator:  Mark 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Bexit Offer for EU Citizens
by granny
Yesterday at 09:38 AM
Benefit Cap is Unlawful
by RUDEBOX
22nd Jun 2017 7:37pm
VW t4 fixed side window replacement
by Mike72
22nd Jun 2017 8:00am
Range Rover P38A Air Suspension Help Needed
by Martin1943
20th Jun 2017 8:06pm
Loving Home Wanted For 3 Cats.
by DavidC
20th Jun 2017 8:32am
For Sale & Free
Washing machine
by GingerTom
20th Jun 2017 9:05pm
22" full 1080p hd and freeview tv
by monsterz4
20th Jun 2017 8:50pm
Apple TV box the 1gen
by monsterz4
20th Jun 2017 8:48pm
42 lf smart tv
by stumpyduck
20th Jun 2017 8:15pm
Wanted roof box
by monsterz4
19th Jun 2017 10:32am
Featured Member
Registered: 5th May 2010
Posts: 3436
Newest Members
Fairz87, mikerobbo84, Robbo1960, Gwhiz03, SamphireGreen
12328 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Shotwick - Old And New (Hall and Solar Farm)
by diggingdeeper
15th Jun 2017 10:19pm
Sefton Park
by diggingdeeper
15th Jun 2017 10:02pm
Property Law
by lau2908
14th Jun 2017 8:04pm
van driver needed
by futurepast
14th Jun 2017 7:34pm
Sailing volunteers
by dogsbrain
14th Jun 2017 4:31pm
News : New Topics
Bexit Offer for EU Citizens
by granny
Yesterday at 09:38 AM
Benefit Cap is Unlawful
by RUDEBOX
22nd Jun 2017 7:37pm
Finsbury Park mosque.
by Beethoven
19th Jun 2017 11:42am
Grenfell Tower - Notting Hill
by diggingdeeper
14th Jun 2017 5:13am
Manchester airport
by Dilly
9th Jun 2017 6:01pm
New Enthusiast Forums
VW t4 fixed side window replacement
by Mike72
22nd Jun 2017 8:00am
Range Rover P38A Air Suspension Help Needed
by Martin1943
20th Jun 2017 8:06pm
Loving Home Wanted For 3 Cats.
by DavidC
20th Jun 2017 8:32am
Loving Home Wanted For 3 Cats.
by DavidC
18th Jun 2017 6:02pm
Code reader
by madrob
16th Jun 2017 9:09am
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Sat 4:44am
Sunset Sat 9:45pm
Local Time Sat 11:42pm
WikiWirral Can . . . .