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#393287 - 6th Mar 2010 5:36pm Can Brown Unite Labour?
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
I think everyone agree's with the need for a united government, the country is in the shit and all the in-fighting is holding back the important decisions that need to be made.

Ive been a member of the Conservative Party since I was first eligable at the age of 16, and am proud of it. I may therefore have a bias against Labour, but whilst they remain in charge, and could possibly be in government for another 5 years, it really does worry me that the leading figures within the government are always publically disagreeing with each other, and going against each other. We all know in the past year of the countless time when Brown has faced a backlash from his own party regarding extremely serious issues, Alistair Darling is the most obvious candidate for this, and there appears to be no love-loss between our countries number 1 and number 2. It's almost as if they are enemies fighting for different sides sometimes.

Then today, I read a News report on the BBC where the Home Secratary, Alan Johnson, who does sometimes come across as a prat when it comes to defending Brown, but is generally quite a down-to-earth and realistic person, believes the recent Jon Venables case is in the public interest and we "have a right to know", whereas Brown has backed up Jack Straw's opinion that the public don't have a right to know.

Do these people not communicate? They claim enough expenses for things like telephones, internet connections etc, and yet on the most important issue currently in the public spotlight, each other is not aware of what the other one is saying. Disagree in private and reach an understanding, comprimise, but not in public!! Johnson is one of Browns most loyal party members, defending him to the hill in the past, so to me it speaks volumes about how widespread the problems are within the Labour party and its leadership!

Do you think Brown can ever unite Labour, do you think he has the ability, trust and respect to do so, or do you think he is simply a doomed leader who is probably best handing over to someone else (like maybe Alan Johnson) to try and sort the party and therefore the country out for once and for all?

Shades of John Major in his final days as PM maybe, but at least he had the bollocks to resign and let the party decide who they wanted as leader for once and for all be it him or Redwood, something which Brown has always been severely afraid of. He is an un-elected Labour leader by his party (you can't "win" a one-horse race), Prime Minister by the public and has shurked away from both a general election 2 years ago and a leadership contest on multiple occasions.

If we end up with another Labour government, which I do believe is a very real possibility, I hope to god he is replaced swiftly, because in my personal opinion, he has zero leadership skills, and very low credibility within his own party. There must surely be better people for the job within the Labour party, otherwise what hope do they have? Im inclined to believe there is, they are just two scared (and too stupid) to get rid of Brown.

Interested to hear from all sides, Labour supporters as well.

frown

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#393315 - 6th Mar 2010 7:06pm Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: MattLFC]
Softy_Southerner Offline

Forum Guardian

Registered: 2nd May 2008
Posts: 4092
Loc: Back in Devon
I'm very surprised the Brown is taking the Labour Party into the election and I believe that will lose it for them. GB is self appointed PM and I don't understand how or why he was allowed to step into TB shoes without some kind of a vote.
IMHO Labour would walk it if they changed their leader (it's too late now) and if they do win then (again IMHO) it is because people dislike 'call me Dave' Cameron more than GB.
Rightly or wrongly we live in an age of personalities and people will need to like their future leader to vote for him / her. I bet the turnout for this election will be one of the lowest in modern times - people trust none of them enough to elect them.


Edited by Softy_Southerner (6th Mar 2010 7:08pm)

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#393374 - 7th Mar 2010 7:20am Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: Softy_Southerner]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7921
Loc: tranmere
In answer to Matts question, do we need a united government, what we don't need is a government and cabinet that is full of yes men, who all row in the same direction, with the captain at the helm, no matter what. We need dissidents who speak up against the party line, whatever party it is. The last thing we want in our governments are sheep. The in fighting as you call it, at least stops a party leader becoming dictatorial, which has happened so many times in the past. On saying that, party leaders have the power to remove such people if they feel the need, and such people have the right to remove themselves if they think the need arises. What doesn't help is the media finding stories that don't exist, it helps no one especially the country.

As far as the Venables case, as i understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, going by an interview i seen the other day. The Prime minister and Jack Straw or anyone else for that matter would be breaking the law if they divulged the reasons for him being locked up. If Alan Johnson or any other MP is that concerned, why don't they raise it in the house and have the law (if there is one) changed.

As far as Gorden Brown goes, i have never been a supporter of him, and if he went tomorrow, i wouldn't have a problem. The problem is the British voter doesn't have a say who becomes a party leader or in fact a Prime minister. We vote for a constituency MP and that's where we leave the democratic process. The fact that Gorden Brown has never faced an election to become Prime minister has very little to do with it.In the next election, if Cameron was to succeed and a couple of weeks later had to step down because of ill health, you could bet your life the Tory government wouldn't be running back to the poles because their new leader wasn't elected by the country, it doesn't work like that. Its unfortunate that a lot of voters in this country do vote for personalities, Brown Vs Cameron and have no idea who or what the constituency MP is or stands for.


Edited by bert1 (7th Mar 2010 7:22am)
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#393378 - 7th Mar 2010 8:34am Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: bert1]
Softy_Southerner Offline

Forum Guardian

Registered: 2nd May 2008
Posts: 4092
Loc: Back in Devon
I wasn't clear. When I mentioned GB being elected rather than inheriting the role, I meant that there should have been a vote within the party not a full blown election - sorry!

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#393384 - 7th Mar 2010 9:22am Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: Softy_Southerner]
ponytail Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 31st Dec 2008
Posts: 578
Loc: wirral
Please don't send Brown back to Scotland - we got rid of him!!
If he is demoted or forced into resignation he will just become a backbencher (in England). At present he is not even really effective in achieving co-operation between SNP and Westminster! Its about time we had a charismatic handsome pm, a happy one, a famous one -

or



Edited by gloria (7th Mar 2010 9:33am)

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#393389 - 7th Mar 2010 9:46am Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: ponytail]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Rab for PM. The thought of this natural leader standing up behind the despatch box at PM's question time and laying into the "establishment" ......I'm tellin' you boy .... etc. Brilliant ! A couple of bottles of Bucky (Buckfast) under the table for a wee swallee....

That said, it would be a cold day in hell before I voted SNP., but the alternatives are......... ???? Mmmmmm.

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#393420 - 7th Mar 2010 11:59am Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: ]
BandyCoot Offline

Forum Veteran

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5360
Loc: Birkenhead
What we need is someone with radical enough policies to get the voters behind him/her. Someone with vision, a sense of what is needed and a clear policy to achieve it. A hung Government we don't need, but a small majority which necessitates thinking things through to bring everyone on board would suffice. Proper debate at the dispatch box is needed instead of everything being steam rollered through by guillotine methodology. If the Conservatives would only go back to their basic policies instead of the touchy feely stuff they are attempting now. Labour are just various shades of pink with an I'm alright Jack attitude. "The Working Class Can Kiss My Ass" so sums them up.
We've also got to stop thinking we can save the world. Sort ourselves out first and then see how we can give others a lift, and by that I don't mean helping India to put satellites up, Pakistan build a nuclear arsenal, Africans of various hues to build palaces and luxury vehicle fleets etc. etc. etc.
We also need to trim back our Armed Forces role now. We are no longer a world power. We should trim back and become a local defence force but promise that if anyone mucks about with us then we will hit them hard and where it hurts. A Navy sufficient to protect our fishing stocks and take a mobile Task Group, with an attack submarine screen, to sort out trouble spots which affect us. An Air Force with sufficient craft to transport troops wherever and provide world class top cover, and an Army that is well trained, superbly equipped for anything they are asked to achieve (along with not being asked to do anything until they have sufficient materiel to carry out the task). An intelligence collection agency covering all aspects of the intelligence spectrum to target resources efficiently.
A realistic look at what stage we are at in our development is all it takes, pragmatism.
oldman
_________________________
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.

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#393540 - 7th Mar 2010 7:59pm Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: Softy_Southerner]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7921
Loc: tranmere
Originally Posted By: Softy_Southerner
I wasn't clear. When I mentioned GB being elected rather than inheriting the role, I meant that there should have been a vote within the party not a full blown election - sorry!


The problem was Softy, no one stood against him, so no vote was needed. A walk over they call it in the racing world, no horse wins the race but the only horse left in it gets the prize.
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#393541 - 7th Mar 2010 8:04pm Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: bert1]
derekdwc Online   content


Forum Veteran

Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 5015
Loc: Birkenhead
how was a coalition government formed as in during the war
Who would be in charge
Would it be the best from all parties

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#393545 - 7th Mar 2010 8:27pm Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: derekdwc]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7921
Loc: tranmere
Originally Posted By: derekdwc
how was a coalition government formed as in during the war
Who would be in charge
Would it be the best from all parties


Chamberlain resigned in 1940, he wanted a national coalition government supported by all parties, in brief the Labour and Liberal parties refused to support him and he resigned. The King sent for Churchill and asked him to form a government and his war cabinet followed, made up from various parties. If it were to happen today, a hung parliament, it would be done by deals made between the parties involved.
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#393556 - 7th Mar 2010 9:09pm Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: bert1]
DavidB Offline
Wiki Guide

Registered: 7th Dec 2003
Posts: 5608
Loc: Bebington, Wirral
Having been politically 'aware' when the Conservatives were in power, I definitely don't want another four years of them ever. We had a great industry before then, there's nothing now. I'll be voting Labour, as I don't think they're doing too bad a job, they just seriously need a new leader.
I thought about voting for Tory, but this was only to spite the current Labour leadership, but no way am I doing this.
_________________________
"C20 LET bang"

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#393564 - 7th Mar 2010 9:51pm Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: DavidB]
jimbob Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 26th Nov 2008
Posts: 1550
Loc: Birkenhead
which ever party gets in power, one of the modern day problems is that there is very little chance of MPs standing up and voting against the party line and been arround for long due to the strangle hold that the party whips now have. A seperate issue is Scotish MPs in a so called {English} parliment


Edited by jimbob (7th Mar 2010 9:51pm)
_________________________
Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten

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#393603 - 8th Mar 2010 9:23am Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: jimbob]
MissGuided Offline

Awesome
Wiki Guardian

Registered: 18th Jul 2008
Posts: 9995
Loc: Back of the wardrobe
Labour is full of 'brown' and very much united in it. Nuff said. Cut their salaries by at least half then see how many are so dedicated to their cause.
_________________________


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#393618 - 8th Mar 2010 10:57am Re: Can Brown Unite Labour? [Re: DavidB]
BandyCoot Offline

Forum Veteran

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 5360
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: Violet
Having been politically 'aware' when the Conservatives were in power, I definitely don't want another four years of them ever. We had a great industry before then, there's nothing now. I'll be voting Labour, as I don't think they're doing too bad a job, they just seriously need a new leader.
I thought about voting for Tory, but this was only to spite the current Labour leadership, but no way am I doing this.


I used to be Labour, because my dad was I think, then once I got out and made my own way in the world I gradually changed because of the effects each lot had on my own perceptions. There is always hope when the Tories are in, a feeling that if you get your head down and get stuck in then things will improve and they usually did. With Labour you always know you are in for a tanking eventually and you usually do. On Paxo's show last week there were young 'uns and old 'uns taking a debate. The young ones complained because the oldies put a fiver in and take six out. They didn't get the fact that with Labour you do that but there are a crowd who put nothing in and take a tenner out and they are getting to be in the majority. Putting a fiver in for fifty years and taking six out for about ten isn't a bad return for the government. Take the PCS going on strike now as a for instance, the deal they have already is a great one and needs to be pulled back a bit but Marky Sowotka has always been a militant and he is getting his wish now to disrupt and cause chaos, it's what he lives for as a dyed in the wool Socialist.
What is needed is pragmatism to sort all this out and just voting automatically for a party because your dad did is not the way to do it. And no, Brown won't pull the Labourites together he is too busy saving Africa.
_________________________
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.

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