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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,367
Forum Master
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Forum Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,367 |
Sorry, but I don't even see any resemebelance between the two, anyone with an ounce of sense would realise he is not the same man. Thats the thing Matt, peope were sending the text's etc without seeing the lad. Bet the people who sent the texts in the 1st place don't resend one saying it's not him!! lol
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 70
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 70 |
Bandycoot -> I agree that people can do ‘evil’ things but not that they are born evil (Does he have horns too and big claws? (This is how the media portrayed him).
Why should the assessors be sacked? Yes an investigation would have to take place to make sure that everything was done correctly, and to find out why the assessor may have been wrong. What if the person followed everything through and did all the tests correctly?
If we sack everyone in positions of responsibility because they are not robots then we will have no one in those positions and all your so called ‘evil’ people will run free. This kind of talk deters people for training in jobs like these.
Scoops-> Do you realise that the media said that there was a monster, an animal on trial rather than facing the fact that it was a little boy.
Did the media report that social workers knew that there was a problem but didn’t act severely until another little boy had died?
Because of the media pushing for the animal with horns and a tail to be tried in an adult court our legal system was made a mockery of.
The media should portray the truth rather than a gruesome picture of the big bad wolf that actually was a little child on trial.
Did the media report that 30 odd people saw the children and ‘thought’ about intervening but did not?
What about the fact that the children are said not to have premeditated the murder, but thought about the prank of abducting the child, but could not think of a way of ending the prank?
Do you realise that is was said that the children did not understand the aspects of death properly?
It was also assessed that if an adult had of intervened the children would have handed over the little boy rather than get into trouble.
As for not doing their trial, if I am right the reason why they did not go into an adult prison is because they would have only been in there for a couple of years and an adult prison is a school on how to become criminal. All the work that the juvenile prison had done with them would have been un done and they would have been more of a danger to society.
Just to clarify I have no sympathy for the two boys who killed the young boy. I am only concerned with this witch hunt and the miscarriage of justice that occurred in the original trial.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,444
Forum Veteran
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Forum Veteran
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The only miscarriage of justice in the original trial was that they virtually got away with it. When I was 10 I knew some of the things we did were wrong and we expected, and got, retribution when we were caught. It taught us several things: right from wrong, punishment would be meted out if caught, the worse the crime the worse the punishment, if it was a really bad thing you was contemplating then don't even do it. This attitude carried on into adult life, as many of my old skippers would testify. I did the crime and did the time, I knew what I was doing. Jenny, I hope that nothing as foul as this ever happens to you or one of yours. I think your tune would change a bit then, truly.
Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,683
Wiki Guide
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Wiki Guide
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,683 |
Thankfully not many of us are as rabid as the tabloids, they're very irresponsible. I couldn't care less what happens to either of the kids who murdered Jamie Bulger, but there's no way I'm getting riled because of manic speculation from The Star.
I know at that age it's very easy to step over the line, nobody knows what was going through their minds on that day.
"C20 LET bang"
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,002
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
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Posts: 12,002 |
It was cold blooded, premeditated murder! (The below is what actually happened to Jamie on that day - in case anyon has forgotten over the years.... Ive included it as a spoiler as it may be distressing to some readers) CCTV evidence from the New Strand Shopping Centre in Bootle taken on 12 February 1993 showed Thompson and Venables casually observing children, selecting a target. The boys were playing truant from school, which they did regularly. Throughout the day, Thompson and Venables were seen stealing various items including sweets, a troll doll, some batteries and a can of blue paint, some of which were found at the murder scene. It was later revealed by one of the boys that they were planning to find a child to abduct, lead it to the busy road alongside the mall, and push it into car traffic.
James Bulger being kidnapped by Thompson, and Venables, in an image recorded on shopping centre CCTV.That same afternoon, James Bulger (often mentioned as "Jamie Bulger" in press reports, although never called "Jamie" by his family), from nearby Kirkby, went with his mother Denise to the New Strand Shopping Centre. While inside a butcher's shop at around 3:40pm, Denise realised that her son had disappeared. He had wandered out of the shop on his own and was spotted by the two boys. They approached him and spoke to him, before taking him by the hand and leading him out of the precinct. This moment was captured on a CCTV camera recording timestamped at 3:42pm.
The boys took Bulger on a 2.5-mile (4.0 km) walk across Liverpool, leading him to a canal where he sustained injuries to his head and face. During the walk, the boys were seen by 38 people. Bulger was clearly distressed, but most bystanders did nothing to intervene, assuming that he was a younger brother. Two people challenged the older boys, but they claimed that Bulger was a younger brother or that he was lost and they were taking him to the local police station. Eventually the boys led Bulger to a railway line near the disused Walton & Anfield railway station, close to Walton Lane police station and Anfield Cemetery, where they attacked him.
At the trial it was established that at this location, one of the boys threw blue Humbrol modelling paint into Bulger's left eye. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22-pound (10.0 kg) iron bar, described in court as a railway fishplate. They placed batteries in his mouth. Bulger suffered ten skull fractures as a result of the iron bar striking his head. Alan Williams, the case's pathologist, speculated that Bulger suffered so many injuries that none could be isolated as the fatal blow. Police suspected that there was a sexual element to the crime, since Bulger's shoes, stockings, trousers and underpants had been removed. The pathologist's report read out in court stated that Bulger's foreskin had been manipulated. When questioned about this aspect of the attack by detectives and the child psychiatrist Eileen Vizard, Thompson and Venables were reluctant to give details.
Before they left him, the boys laid Bulger across the railway tracks and weighted his head down with rubble, in the hope that a train would hit him and make his death appear to be an accident. After Bulger's killers left the scene, his body was cut in half by a train. Bulger's severed body was discovered two days later, on 14 February. A forensic pathologist testified that he had died before he was struck by the train.
What If There Were No Hypothetical Questions?
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 531
Smartchild
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Smartchild
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 531 |
Read the spoiler Jenny, just read the fooking spoiler.
Then tell me he isn't a fooking monster.
If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,632 Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
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Wiki Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,632 Likes: 14 |
The miscarriage of justice is only that the pair of them are still not in prison till the day they die. Unfortunately the word monster is not strong enough, but it will have to do for now. They carried out an evil act, that in my opinion does not stem from a deprived up bringing but stems from being born evil. I have heard and read a lot of arguments that people can not be born evil, but what triggers the switch to become evil if people are not born with it. It can't be an up bringing because there is evil in all social levels. As far as Venables and Thompson are concerned, they had no time at all on this earth, to learn that type of evil.
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.
Bertieone.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 872
Wise One
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Wise One
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 872 |
Some support for Jenny,
I DO NOT care nor want to know what their names are nowadays. If society cannot help bring two 10 year old children back from a very dark place then something is drastically wrong.
The murder was horrible and one which I hope we never see again, I blame the boys parents more than the two boys who committed the crime, If you are treated like an animal from birth than that will be how you turn out. I don't mean living in poverty I mean having no responsible adult around, no food, scrounging for what you can get, no punishment when you do wrong so then it becomes the norm, living like this your morals will be low and social services and other such people should shoulder some responsibility as they were known of at the time, why wasn't it reported that they were absent from school ? Surely these sort of troubled kids should be closely monitored.
The press have a lot to answer for too, they almost made it like a soap opera at times, do you think we would of had so much hate from them if an adult had killed a 2 year old. We hear this all the time where a parent kills a child and they are sectioned then released after anywhere between 2 - 5 years and live back amongst us in society, the press sold lots of papers by making out that we had to BORN EVIL children and that it could only happen in a poor estate.
I feel extremely sorry for Denise Fergus and Ralph Bulger, as a parent I cannot even imagine and don't want to try and imagine how they must have felt and still be feeling. Listening to Denise she believes that they were released too soon, however when asked if she thought they should have stayed in for life she replied along the lines of " I think they should have served the 15 years originally given to them ".
I knew right and wrong at ten years of age and was punished if done wrong, however I don't believe that I truly knew what death was, I knew it meant dead but not sure I knew it meant you never woke up again. I think these kids were allowed to run riot at will and ended up like ferret's with no thought of any possible punishment or right and wrong.
Have watched and read lots about this case as I enjoy reading real crime books and watching tv documentaries on the subject so feel I know as much of what happened to little James Bulger as I need to know and still strongly feel that society reacted strangely as we never before had known a child killing a child before and it stirred emotions that were away from adult killing a child, surely we shouldn't be locking 10 year old's up for possibly 70/80 years without any hope at all.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,702
Forum Addict
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Forum Addict
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Posts: 1,702 |
if 2 domestic 'animals' had done what they did to another domestic 'animal' they would have been destroyed.
these two evil barstard should of been destroyed.
they don't deserve to breath the same air as we do.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,119
Forum Guardian
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Forum Guardian
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,119 |
I'm all for healthy debate / discussion but I'm starting to think that this thread had run it's course and should maybe be locked before emotions run too high?
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 70
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 70 |
StuyMac I have some information that doesn't so much as go against what your spoiler says but does suggest some different information to support my arguments. Unfortunately it will have to wait till tomorrow though (if the thread is not closed by then I will post it up) as its on my other comp.
Sorry for the quick response I am off out, reply tomorrow if the thread is not closed.
xxx
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 350
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 350 |
Quote:
What about the fact that the children are said not to have premeditated the murder, but thought about the prank of abducting the child, but could not think of a way of ending the prank?
Do you realise that is was said that the children did not understand the aspects of death properly?
It was also assessed that if an adult had of intervened the children would have handed over the little boy rather than get into trouble.end quote
Hey Jenny, these 'boys'walked little James 3 miles before murdering him, they had plenty of time to end their 'prank' as you put it. These kids had also been bought up on a diet of sick videos frequently showing death - they must have understood it and finally if an adult had intervened the adult would probably have been arrested.
Last edited by aegean; 16th Mar 2010 10:09pm.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,515
Forum Addict
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,515 |
It was cold blooded, premeditated murder!
(The below is what actually happened to Jamie on that day - in case anyon has forgotten over the years.... Ive included it as a spoiler as it may be distressing to some readers)
Despite the media coverage at the time and since, and the fact James Bulger was almost the same age as my son, so I took particular interest in the case, I never knew any of these disturbing facts. I am utterly horrified and no excuses made for these children can ever justify what they did. They should have been locked away for ever because with all the help in the world there is no coming back from the evil place they where when this horrible crime was committed.
See you in cyberspace!
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,632 Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
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Wiki Veteran
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I'm all for healthy debate / discussion but I'm starting to think that this thread had run it's course and should maybe be locked before emotions run too high? Its all right Softy, a debate like this is bound to be emotional, giving ones point of view is healthy and up to now no one has got personal or insulting, lets hope that's how it remains.
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.
Bertieone.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 872
Wise One
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Wise One
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 872 |
Softy I dont want it locked, I am on the different side to most but have not been insulted,
To clarify I did not say that I am making excuses for what they done as that can never happen, I am simply saying that surely mankind can help 10 year old's to a more stable state of mind and give them a chance in life.
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