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#333138 - 1st Jul 2009 12:56pm Magazine Village - Bromborough *****
billy_anorak59 Offline

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Registered: 4th Feb 2009
Posts: 199
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Magazine Village Bromborough.

Does anybody have any photographs or information regarding this 'lost' village? It was precisely where 'McTay Marine' is today - I think it was built in the 1850's and the last house was demolished round about 1971. I've posted a scan of a photo taken in 1969, and a modern view of the same area. My grandparents lived there until about 1971.


It was reached by a track (Magazine Lane) that ran from the junction of Stadium Road and Magazine Road - I remember when I was a lad that there was a signal box there - I think the area was known as Port Rainbow.

Not a lot of people know that this village (of about 14 houses) ever existed - even people in Bromborough!, but my Grandfather worked there on the gunpowder boats/hulks, including 'Swallow' - a wooden ex-Royal Navy Frigate/Sloop, I believe it dated from the 1860's. Does anyone know it's original identity/class, etc? It was broken up in 1949 (see photo taken just beforehand).

Before the 'Swallow', at the turn of the century there were apparently two other gunpowder ships - the 'Mersey' and the 'Liverpool'. Does anybody have any information on these ships - what they looked like or whether they were ex-RN also?

Perhaps I should start a new topic for this village - it witnessed some interesting events that cross-thread with other topics on WirralHistory: the Maunsell 'Sea Forts' were built there before being towed into Liverpool Bay, and a German Junkers 88 crashed there - my father actually witnessed the shooting down as a 13 yr old, with a Hurricane fighter doing a victory roll over the crash site. I've seen these two mentioned in other topics on here. There was also a land-mine blast that followed the Lever Bros railway cutting, and took the roof off my grandparents house.

One other question: An American freighter the 'Gateway City' ran aground there in, I think 1937, and was re-floated later (see scan of the Liverpool Daily Post clipping). Does anyone know what became of her? Did she survive the War? (Oops, that's two questions...).
blush

Thanks for your time.

Billy. thumbsup


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
1969cr.JPG

nowcr.JPG

Swallow1.jpg

GatewayCity.jpg


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#333221 - 1st Jul 2009 6:38pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: billy_anorak59]
Doctor_Frick Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 24th Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Loc: Prenton
Billy

There is some info on the Hulks here.

and some info on Brom Pool village here

Its not much and is something id like to learn more info about my self. I believe there more about it in ther archives in town.
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#333391 - 2nd Jul 2009 7:38am Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: Doctor_Frick]
billy_anorak59 Offline

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Registered: 4th Feb 2009
Posts: 199
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Thanks Doctor - much appreciated. I'll take a look.

Billy. happy
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#333392 - 2nd Jul 2009 7:47am Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: billy_anorak59]
Wheels Offline
Wiki Veteran

Registered: 4th Jan 2005
Posts: 8795
Loc: Tranmere
That iss really good, I didn't know that it even existed.

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#333396 - 2nd Jul 2009 8:27am Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: Wheels]
uggla Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 6th Feb 2009
Posts: 509
Loc: Bromborough
cheers pal aint been down there since i was a kid on a bike can you still go down there
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#333497 - 2nd Jul 2009 7:18pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: uggla]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10268
Loc: Birkenhead
The last expansion of McTay Marine was built on top of the last remains of the cottages. Good find, I was never aware of this at all.

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#333519 - 2nd Jul 2009 8:10pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: diggingdeeper]
greasby_lad Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 17th Jan 2009
Posts: 146
Loc: Wirral
The Bromborough details from the 1857 Post Office Directory for Cheshire have been transcribed here www.andysutton.co.uk/old/1857bromborough.htm and include the following -
Peers, William - Storekeeper to the Liverpool floating gunpowder magazines
Leay, Richard - Assistant Storekeeper to the Liverpool floating gunpowder magazines

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#333565 - 2nd Jul 2009 9:46pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: greasby_lad]
greasby_lad Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 17th Jan 2009
Posts: 146
Loc: Wirral
In 1864 the Lottie Sleigh was at anchor in the Mersey and she was carrying 11 tons of gunpowder. A fire broke out and the subsequent explosion was heard 30 miles away. Read all about it here http://blog.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/MaritimeTalesTerrorOfTheLottieSleigh.aspx

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#333596 - 2nd Jul 2009 11:28pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: greasby_lad]
greasby_lad Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 17th Jan 2009
Posts: 146
Loc: Wirral
Some newspaper cuttings re the Bromborough floating magazines.
In the Hampshire Telegraph article, there is a reference to "450l per annum". The "l" is the old alternative symbol for £ ("l" = livre = pound).


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Preston Guardian 5 June 1852.jpg

Liverpool Mercury 13 May 1853.jpg

Glasgow Herald 29 July 1881.jpg

Hampshire Telegraph 23 Aug 1882.jpg



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#333622 - 3rd Jul 2009 7:48am Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: greasby_lad]
billy_anorak59 Offline

Addict

Registered: 4th Feb 2009
Posts: 199
Loc: Cambridgeshire
Thanks greasby_lad - that's great stuff and much appreciated. happy

Here's a few more photos:
One taken from the village showing the southern extent of Bromborough dock wall - the 'Swallow' can be seen in the background on the river.

One of the men that ran the Magazines (My Grandad's in the middle) - the dock wall is still being built in this one, and again, the 'Swallow' magazine can be seen in the background.

The other photo shows the 'Swallow' herself - the red band can be seen as the dark stripe around the hull in this one, and if the picture is closely looked at, it can be just made out that there is a slight 'kink' in the hull just behind the mast - the ships back was broken.

If anyone's got more to add, please post it!! thumbsup

Thanks all,
Billy.

Note: correction added by Billy on 22 Feb 2013 see post 770942


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Shore1res.JPG

Description: Dock Wall - Swallow in the background

Shore3res.JPG

Description: The 'Magazines' Men

Swallow10res.jpg

Description: The 'Swallow' floating magazine




Edited by chriskay (22nd Feb 2013 8:51pm)
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#333635 - 3rd Jul 2009 11:42am Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: billy_anorak59]
ghostly1 Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 25th Nov 2007
Posts: 405
Loc: Liscard
I could be wrong?? but I think I seen a piece of a gunpowder boat that blew up. Its in the williamson art gallery and it looks like one of the pulleys of the rigging. It was found near the bebington church. Not sure if it was the Lotte Sleigh though??

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#333658 - 3rd Jul 2009 12:40pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: ghostly1]
LukeORourke Offline
Addict

Registered: 13th Dec 2007
Posts: 267
Loc: Canberra Australia
i remember going down to mctay back in '05 be4 i left 4 aus and my dad telling me as a kid he used to watch the ships being launched from there and he used to live on port causeway just nearby

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#333782 - 3rd Jul 2009 10:04pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: LukeORourke]
Doctor_Frick Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 24th Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Loc: Prenton
Good pic Billy. Nice to see some old photos with people in who you know. Always brings the photo to life. I found a good one with my relatives in it. (sorry in know its off topic.



This is the old Smithy in Moreton Village. The second man in from the left is my Great Great uncle, Thomas Mutch. The smithy was in Neatherton Rd.
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#334155 - 5th Jul 2009 8:03pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: Doctor_Frick]
greasby_lad Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 17th Jan 2009
Posts: 146
Loc: Wirral
Some information about the situation before the Bromborough floating gunpowder magazines, taken from E.C.Woods 1925 "Further Notes on the Penkett Family" (THSLC vol 78 1926) -


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Woods - Penkett p122.jpg

Woods - Penkett p123.jpg

Woods - Penkett p124.jpg



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#335255 - 10th Jul 2009 1:08pm Re: Magazine Village - Bromborough [Re: greasby_lad]
billy_anorak59 Offline

Addict

Registered: 4th Feb 2009
Posts: 199
Loc: Cambridgeshire
One of the questions that I have long had was if ‘Swallow the magazine hulk’ had been the Royal Navy ship ‘HMS Swallow’, so I must thank greasby_lad for providing a major clue to the probable answer with the clipping from the Hampshire Telegraph dated 23rd Aug 1882 that he provided, happy clap especially this bit:

“The owners of the Liverpool floating gunpowder magazines have applied to the Admiralty for permission to use the Lapwing or Swallow gunboats as a powder depot”

So, it would seem that Swallow the gunpowder hulk was indeed HMS Swallow the Royal Navy ship. If a choice was to be made between the Lapwing and Swallow, then the class of ship would surely have been a “Plover Class Wooden Gun vessel” as the two were sister ships at that time.

Based on the above, I found this information from the internet:

Plover Class
HMS Swallow Built: Portsmouth Dockyard
Launched: 16 November 1868
Hull: Wood
Propulsion: Screw
Type: Gunvessel
Guns: 3
Disposal: 1882
Notes: Sold to A.Tobin on 18th October 1882


So, HMS Swallow was sold to an ‘A Tobin’ (in 1882 – the date fits with the newspaper cutting). Who was ‘A Tobin’?

There were no A.Tobin’s in the census records for 1882 that I could find - apart from a labourer (not likely to have afforded a ship!), so after a bit more digging, it would seem that ‘A Tobin’ was in fact James Aspinall Tobin, son of Thomas Tobin, reputed to have been a Slave Trader descended from a smuggling family.

This family were also deeply involved with Gunpowder trading – so it all fits together. I think that this is the man who bought the ‘Swallow’ from the Navy.

In the 1861 census, James is described as being a ‘Magistrate and African Merchant’, which would maybe indicate he had something to do with slaves as well?

This is an extract from the family History on the Internet:

From around 1800 Thomas Tobin had lived in Liverpool, possibly with a country home at Eastham House, Eastham which was later occupied by his son James Aspinall Tobin.

James Aspinall Tobin became Mayor of Liverpool in 1854. Further family respectability came with James's son, Sir Alfred Aspinall Tobin (1855-1939) being appointed a judge. There are four portraits of him in the National Portrait Gallery.

In 1901, he still lived with his widowed mother, the wife of James, Olivia Maria Aspinall Tobin at Eastham House, however in 2007; Eastham House is an old people's home.


And Eastham House (Eastham Village Road) is not too far from his Gunpowder stores. All quite interesting stuff…
learn

I’ve included a side profile of the Swallow hulk for comparison with the other two photographs attached. They are of HMS Swallow’s sister ships HMS Magpie and HMS Ringdove (I can’t find one of HMS Swallow itself at the moment, but this must be what she looked like when in Navy service).

If I've been barking up the wrong tree doh - please let me know, and if you've got more to add, please post!!
Cheers,
Billy.
thumbsup


Attachments: Viewing Permissions May Apply. Click Me
Swallowx.jpg

hmsmagpie2flhu.JPG

hmsringdove.jpg


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