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Hillbark Mystery #276629
17th Dec 2008 10:02pm
17th Dec 2008 10:02pm
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 308
Prenton
D
Doctor_Frick Offline OP
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Doctor_Frick  Offline OP
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Prenton
Ok heres a conondrum for ya..


Whilst researching Hillbark in Frankby i stumbled across some strange fingings. The History of the house from Hillbarks website reads as follows:

"The house was originally built in 1891 (on Bidston Hill) for the soap manufacturer Robert William Hudson. Germany’s Crown Prinz Wilhelm was so impressed with the house that in 1913 he built a copy for himself in Potsdam; the famous Potsdam Agreement at the end of World War 2 was signed there. Hillbark was sold in 1921 to Sir Ernest Royden and in 1928 was moved to its present site, brick by brick, finally being completed in 1931.

Ok so it states that it was not moved until 1928 to franky ? However in Philip Sulleys The Hundred of Wirral from 1889 he states that Hillbark was built by John Robin in 1868. Also stating that it contained a mere in its gardens known as Frankby Mere. If you check the online Tithe maps:

http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps/

It shows a building in the same space as Hillbark today, in the same shape, owned by John Robin. Am i missing something here or have Hillbarks website got their own History wrong ??

Answers on a postcard

Doctor Frick



Over 5000 years of Wirral History:
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Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: Doctor_Frick] #276631
17th Dec 2008 10:39pm
17th Dec 2008 10:39pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,577
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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diggingdeeper  Offline

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Birkenhead
Good spot fricky...

Pure conjecture but ... I think that area was already called Hillbark and the building just took the area name. Plot 169 on the tithe map is the building you mention and is recorded as a barn (though must have been BIG), perhaps this was called Hillbark first.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: Doctor_Frick] #276654
17th Dec 2008 11:25pm
17th Dec 2008 11:25pm
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uptoncx Offline

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"Bidston Court" was built in 1891 for Robert Hudson, as you say, there was, however already a house called "Hillbark" which is described as being 'of the same type'. This house was demolished in 1929 when "Bidston Court" was moved there and given the name of the old house.


Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: uptoncx] #276695
18th Dec 2008 12:49am
18th Dec 2008 12:49am
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uptoncx Offline

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Picture of the original Hillbark:

[Linked Image]


Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: uptoncx] #276735
18th Dec 2008 7:18am
18th Dec 2008 7:18am
Joined: Jul 2008
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Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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diggingdeeper  Offline

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Isn't that building still there on the left as you go in Royden Park - is it Royden Hall community centre? About 15 years since I last went there though.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: diggingdeeper] #276906
18th Dec 2008 11:36pm
18th Dec 2008 11:36pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,577
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Ok - I will argue with myself as usual - no it is probably not that building, or was it, I remembered it having a tower. Can anyone tell me if this is Royden Hall.

Attached Files
FrankbyRoydenHall.jpg (516 downloads)
Other building in royden Park

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: diggingdeeper] #276929
19th Dec 2008 10:25am
19th Dec 2008 10:25am
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 338
wirral
C
Colgo Offline

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Colgo  Offline

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wirral
That building is known as the Coach House.
Royden Hall is HERE but I don't think its the building you are on about

Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: Colgo] #277033
19th Dec 2008 8:30pm
19th Dec 2008 8:30pm
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Posts: 13,577
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Until the mid-nineteenth century the site of Royden Park was still largely farmland. However, by 1844 there were in existence areas of 'plantation' which were to form the basis of a parkland landscape which still exists today. The land was purchased in 1865 by Septimus Ledward Esq. J.P. who built a sandstone house called 'Hillbark' on the site of an ancient tithebarn. The house was erected between 1868 and 1870 and the surrounding grounds were laid out with gardens and glasshouses, a dovecote and a bowling green.

The present house of Hillbark was erected in 1931 by Sir Ernest B. Royden after whom the park is named. This mock-Tudor building, originally known as Bidston Court, was built near Bidston Hill in 1891 for the soap manufacturer R. W. Hudson, and then moved brick by brick to its present commanding position. Following the death of Sir E. B, Royden the park was acquired in 1961 by Hoylake Urban District Council for use as 'public open space'. Hillbark is now an hotel and conference centre and is not open to the public.

from http://www.wirral.gov.uk/LGCL/100006/200073/1008/content_0000984.html

Thanks Colgo
Sorry to temporarily pinch thread Fricky

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 19th Dec 2008 8:33pm.

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: diggingdeeper] #277056
19th Dec 2008 10:47pm
19th Dec 2008 10:47pm
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Posts: 683
Wirral
uptoncx Offline

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Just to join all of the above together, and to help remove any confusion (well, I’m confussed even if nobody else is):

In 1865 Septimus Ledward esq. J.P. bought a piece of land in Frankby from the executors of John Robin. Between 1868 and 1870 a house was built on the land, on the site of an ancient tithe barn on the summit of Frankby Hill. The house, named “Hill Bark” was designed by G T Grayson of Liverpool and enlarged in 1882. It may have looked like this:

[Linked Image]

The surrounding grounds were laid out with gardens and glasshouses and covered an area of 2 acres.

A coach house and clock tower were built in the grounds, this is now the visitor centre in Roydon Park.

[Linked Image]

Lodges in the same style as the main house were also built at the entrances to the park.

Meanwhile, in 1891, R.W.Hudson had a house built in Noctorum, based on the plans of Little Moreton Hall in Congleton. The house cost £150,000 to build and was called “Bidston Court”. It had a fine view westwards across the peninsula to the distant Welsh hills. Such was its prominence that, during the First World War, the Germans had thought of using the tall chimneys as range detectors for shelling Liverpool Docks.

Sir Ernest Roydon, who was married to the daughter of Septimus Ledward, bought “Bidston Court” in 1920. When Ledward died, “Hill Bark” came into the possession of Lady Roydon.

The Roydon’s liked “Bidston Court”, but didn’t like its position. They didn’t like “Hill Bark”, but did like its position, so Sir Ernest decided to move, and take the house with him.

In 1929 “Hill Bark” was demolished and “Bidston Court” was dismantled and moved piece by piece to Frankby. The house was re-assembled using local architects and local builders and was ready for occupation by 1931. The house was given the name of the old house, “Hill Bark”

[Linked Image]

Sir Ernest died in 1960 and Hoylake UDC bought the property a year later. The house was opened as a home for the elderly, this continued until a few years ago when “Hill Bark” became an hotel and conference centre.

There is one further twist to the story of Hill Bark: In 1911 the Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany wanted to buy the house and have it shipped back to Germany, but Ledward refused to sell, he did, however, agree to sell the plans to the Prince.

The location of the German House was not known until Sir Ernest commissioned two agents to go to Germany to confirm its existence. The house, called “Cecilianhof” was built in Potsdam, and it was used for the signing of the Potsdam Agreement after the Second World War.

[Linked Image]
Cecilianhof in Potsdam

Additional sources:
The Wirral Peninsula, Norman Ellison 1955
The Wirral, Alan Brack 1980
The Wirral Journal Spring 1982
The Wirral Journal Autumn 1986
The Wirral Journal Spring 1990



Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: uptoncx] #277107
20th Dec 2008 11:14am
20th Dec 2008 11:14am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,577
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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diggingdeeper  Offline

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Birkenhead
Thanks for that uptoncx - you could become the resident deconfuser - I need one even if nobody else does. idiot


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: Doctor_Frick] #277578
22nd Dec 2008 8:28pm
22nd Dec 2008 8:28pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 108
wirral
angie Offline
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angie  Offline
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Posts: 108
wirral
I think you will find this link interesting it is a video of the workmen moving the original Bidston Court from Bidston brick by brick it,s only 58 seconds but so fascinating.http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//RTV/1930/01/01/BGT407150347/?s=Bidston+Court


Anybody can make history. Only a great man can write it.
Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: angie] #277579
22nd Dec 2008 8:29pm
22nd Dec 2008 8:29pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 108
wirral
angie Offline
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angie  Offline
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wirral
you might need to copy and paste it


Anybody can make history. Only a great man can write it.
Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: angie] #277672
23rd Dec 2008 12:41pm
23rd Dec 2008 12:41pm
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 440
Wirral
A
AR_One Offline
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AR_One  Offline
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A
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Posts: 440
Wirral
Sorry to ask this (as I'm sure it already has been!) but where's the original site of Bidston Court and is there any evidence still to be found - foundations etc?

Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: AR_One] #277675
23rd Dec 2008 1:09pm
23rd Dec 2008 1:09pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
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chriskay  Offline
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shropshire
Here it is on a 1909 map. Looking at the site on Live Search there seems to be a group of houses there now, so I don't think there'll be any remains.

Cheers, Chris.

Attached Files

Carpe diem.
Re: Hillbark Mystery [Re: chriskay] #277699
23rd Dec 2008 2:40pm
23rd Dec 2008 2:40pm
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 338
wirral
C
Colgo Offline

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Colgo  Offline

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wirral
just had a look on live search I think the terracing in front of the house as shown on your 1909 map could be here

Last edited by Colgo; 23rd Dec 2008 2:40pm.
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