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#222596 - 25th Apr 2008 2:57pm Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
AR_One Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 14th Nov 2007
Posts: 435
Loc: Wirral
In the UK!

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/display.var.2221821.0.merseyside_has_biggest_drop_in_crime.php

All I can say is, either all of the asb and burglaries are in one part of the Wirral or nothing gets reported any more - I haven't noticed an improvement!

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#222620 - 25th Apr 2008 4:42pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: AR_One]
jonno40 Offline
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Registered: 7th Jan 2008
Posts: 1234
Loc: wirral
The asbo kids have just got faster .
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It all makes perfect sense expressed in dollars and cents ,pound shillings and pence

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#222663 - 25th Apr 2008 7:32pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: jonno40]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Ive noticed, over the past decade (since Labour got in surprisingly), a literal year on year increase in anti-social crime.

Now, I will give the housing association and local council/police all the credit in the world, they have worked wonders with the flats I live in, turning them from ASBO central into a nice, quiet area with an ever stregntening community atmosphere and finally a good future over the 2 years I have lived there.

But everywhere else just seems to get worse and worse and kids and youths have no respect for anyone nowadays, not even themselves.

Crime hasnt dropped, it has increased. The reporting of crime has dropped, as has the logging of crime due to amount of paperwork the police now have to do for each crime reported...

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#223201 - 27th Apr 2008 3:51pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: MattLFC]
Beemertastic Offline
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Registered: 16th Oct 2007
Posts: 1113
Loc: wirral
nope..sorry matt..not having that one "The reporting of crime has dropped, as has the logging of crime due to amount of paperwork the police now have to do for each crime reported..."
so much so in fact that we have civvies whos performance indicators is how many crime reports they take....which are then passed to officers to deal with...

work that one out!

When a crime report is generated is doesnt just magically "go away"...not until it is throughly investigated and a report written and read by half a dozen people to Q and A it....

Could it just be...and im clutching a straws here prehaps..that we are working harder..and bringing more people to justice than ever before...

crime is down...but perception crime rates isnt..thats far harder to actually deal with...and infintely harder to measure!
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#223206 - 27th Apr 2008 4:18pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: Beemertastic]
MattLFC Offline
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Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
I don't doubt the work rate of the police; they do a damn hard job and I have all the respect in the world for the job the police do.

It's the justice system and the way the government runs the country that causes people not to report crimes. I know plenty of people who feel its not even worth reporting a crime anymore because in their opinion it would just "fall on death ears as the police are useless".

The police are just doing as much as they can, it's the government who are actually to blame, but either way, I see more and more crime year on year, but less people are bothered to report minor crimes now as they know it won't lead to anything.

Also, the figures surely can't take into account the ASB crime that goes on everywhere, smashing up of bus stops, fighting, vandelism, intimidation by gangs etc, these crimes are very very rarely reported.

So I stand by my point; crime levels have not dropped, the reporting of crime has, crime, moreso ASB related crime, is on a rapid increase year on year imho.

It doesnt help the fact that criminals, when prosecuted, never get anywhere near the appropriate sentence, in fact under Labour, they are more likely to be released without a custodial sentence to go do it again!

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#223214 - 27th Apr 2008 4:30pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: MattLFC]
Beemertastic Offline
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Registered: 16th Oct 2007
Posts: 1113
Loc: wirral
"Also, the figures surely can't take into account the ASB crime that goes on everywhere, smashing up of bus stops, fighting, vandelism, intimidation by gangs etc, these crimes are very very rarely reported."

they get reported by the council...who own the property damaged...so yes they are included....


Edited by Auditastic (27th Apr 2008 4:31pm)
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#223215 - 27th Apr 2008 4:32pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: Beemertastic]
Beemertastic Offline
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Registered: 16th Oct 2007
Posts: 1113
Loc: wirral
further to that..."It doesnt help the fact that criminals, when prosecuted, never get anywhere near the appropriate sentence, in fact under Labour, they are more likely to be released without a custodial sentence to go do it again!"

The point of prison ISNT to punish..its to protect society from those offenders and to rehabilitate...

your argument is therefore somewhat flawed...
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#223218 - 27th Apr 2008 4:34pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: Beemertastic]
Beemertastic Offline
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Registered: 16th Oct 2007
Posts: 1113
Loc: wirral
added to which "I know plenty of people who feel its not even worth reporting a crime anymore because in their opinion it would just "fall on death ears as the police are useless"."

you wouldnt belive the incredibily petty crap people ring us up for all the time....trust me!
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#223221 - 27th Apr 2008 4:44pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: Beemertastic]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Originally Posted By: Auditastic
The point of prison ISNT to punish..its to protect society from those offenders and to rehabilitate...

Actually, that is pretty shitty, come on, some little gobshite kills a child, you are honestly tewlling me they shouldnt be punished, you think they should be "rehabilitated?

And how many of these criminals are repeat offenders, its the same people over and over again, prisons don't punish OR rehabilitate offenders, they practically reward the low-life offenders. Im not saying some don't come out and never want to go back, but to most criminals, its just a walk in the park.

How are the prisons supposed to rehabilitate prisoners, when the prisoners practically run these private prisons (you never seen the Whistleblower report on BBC).

And where is the justice in rehabilitation, justice is in punishment. This is eaxctly what im getting at, the justice system in the UK is an absolute joke, I didnt think the police were of such a cocked up mind as the government, rehabilitation my arse, this country needs to get real, bring back the death penalty, make prisoners work very very hard, get the fookers into line, not give them playstations and tv's and 3 good meals a day, half of them wouldnt even get that on the outside!!

A prisoner should be punished, not "rehabilitated", it is extreme punishment that keeps them out of prison, not failed rehabilitation programmes...

Get the fookin army in there to give them all a hiding a day, teach the fookers some respect for other people, a beating a day keeps the crime away imho. But I forget, rehabilitation does so much better!

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#223222 - 27th Apr 2008 4:50pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: MattLFC]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
And as for repeat thieving scum, cut their hands off like they do in Middle Eastern countries, and as for convicted rapists, cut thier goolies off!!

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#223223 - 27th Apr 2008 5:00pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: MattLFC]
Beemertastic Offline
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Registered: 16th Oct 2007
Posts: 1113
Loc: wirral
er..Im not saying I agree with the system..you miss my point...but THAT is the current thought process behind prison and has been for sometime.

I dont make the rules...just observe and enforce them....

The problem is greater than just making sure "justice" is done...if someone kills a kid...whatever you do to them never brings that kid back...or eases the pain of the family left behind...
an eye for an eye is very simplistic and still doesnt solve the problem...

Take somewhere with extreme punishments such as saudi arabia...cutting off someones hand for theft....are we not as a civilised society somewhat beyond that?

How can you punished someone who has nothing to loose...half of the "customers" I used to deal with in area havent got a pot to piss in...so how can you punish someone with nothing to loose....

therefore is prison a punishment? it isnt because its not designed to be.

Look at the States...at the moment they have a HUGE prison population...bigger than ever before...and they do hard time/executions etc....and they hand out serious penalties...like 20 years for possesion of class A drugs..

and wheres it got them...the criminals are more violent as a result..because they still commit the crime but are more desperate to get away and as a result its far more violent over there.......

We subscribe to Human rights...something that the states dont...whilst it makes my job harder at times....I still am of the opinion that it is better that 10 guilty go free rather than an innocent man be jailed wrongly...

at the end of the day..."If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law."




Edited by Auditastic (27th Apr 2008 5:03pm)
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#223224 - 27th Apr 2008 5:02pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: Beemertastic]
Beemertastic Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 16th Oct 2007
Posts: 1113
Loc: wirral
whilst rehab may not be the full answer...stiffer penalties arent the answer in a civilised society either...
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#223338 - 28th Apr 2008 12:25am Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: Beemertastic]
Spritey_Nikki Offline

Forum Addict

Registered: 13th Feb 2008
Posts: 1809
Loc: Wallasey
I ave experience with living among the arabs in Saudi Arabia, and I have to say in the 8 years I lived there, I did not hear or see anyone doing any sort of crime. Now I am not saying that people didnt commit crime, they did. But due to the harsh punishment, it detered people from doing crime. So although I believe not such punishments would work here in the UK, I do think they work in some societies.

The only problem with UK, is although we do have punishments, they still are not harsh enough for some crimes committed. The other thing, is although a jail sentence is given, if they appeal it, more often than not they are out half way through it. They dont learn!

I also noticed you put 'I still am of the opinion that it is better that 10 guilty go free rather than an innocent man be jailed wrongly'.....we obviously dont have a very good justice system if you feel that we would get it wrong.....it wouldnt be of any opinion if our country and government did their jobs right!

So......although I believe maybe we shouldnt have punishments like Saudi, I do believe that we should change somethings about the way we deal with certain crimes and punishments.

And to be honest I would agree with Matt, I think that if they were to bring back certain things, then a lot of our crimes would drop! And to be honest some people probably commit crime because they get a better life in prison than they do out. Going to prison is a sort of punishment, unfortunatley because of how our prisons are now, its like walking into a hotel room, no-body learns from it, and then judges/police/government all wonder why criminals commit crime again!


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Nikki Abbo! wink Life isnt a practise,you have to get it right first time! smile

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#223386 - 28th Apr 2008 10:00am Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: Beemertastic]
spinking Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 11th May 2004
Posts: 5093
Loc: Happy Home
Originally Posted By: Auditastic
added to which "I know plenty of people who feel its not even worth reporting a crime anymore


Me being one of them.

I had some drunken idiot hit the 200 awhile back went out spoke to the lad and was told i would be killed by him so thought sod it call the police they came round gave the lad a ticking off and let him go.

He came back round half hour later with a bar so rang the police again who didnt turn up and phoned me back asking why i had phoned mad

Delt with this myself BUT wasnt happy with the response i got as i was told it was a friday night and the police were bizzy.

I have had a appologie from the police since as i reported this matey but the answers simple they are under manned and have there hands tide.

Crime on the wirral seems to be going up not down as the amount of things that have happened in my street alone has more than double in the last 5 years.

Saying that the its stopped of late as the family who lived by us have left and crimes down.

i think the problems the courts as they just dont give out a harsh enough punishment.
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#223473 - 28th Apr 2008 2:56pm Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime [Re: spinking]
AR_One Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 14th Nov 2007
Posts: 435
Loc: Wirral
OOps

Started this thread and then haven't been back on here for a couple of days and there's loads of replies.

I guess the point that I wanted to make was that I'm a firm supporter of the Police and the work that they do but I do feel that there is a surrender of the streets and a general ignorance of small or petty (I hate that description) crime. I see this all the time in a general, continual degradation of the environment. Round where I live you only have to look at:

- what seems to happen on a weekly basis to Flaybrick cemetary.
- the burning of cars and fly-tipping on Bidston Hill
- the new houses that are going up near the 7 styles regularly getting thier windows put in
- a large number of burglaries and attempted burglaries in our street and
- walking past the new houses at St James a couple of weeks ago, someone had pulled up all the trees and tipped the bins out.

It all adds up to a general feeling of inscurity about depression about the standard of respect that people have towards each other and their property.

I always make the effort to report things to the Police or the council but shoudl you really call 999 if someone is breaking trees as this is only way that they are likely to get caught?

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