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#156005 - 17th May 2007 8:42pm Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points
Mark Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21049
Loc: Wirral
Motorists with points won't be penalised with higher insurance premiums

An insurance company is no longer automatically penalising motorists with points on their licence due
to the rise in the number of speed camera convictions, it has been revealed.

The Swinton insurance company said insurance providers were "having to accept that points alone
can no longer be used as a yardstick for driver evaluation".

And the company added that drivers with six points or more on their licence could soon be viewed by
insurance companies as "standard" rather than "non-standard" drivers.

Motorists who incur 12 penalty points over a period of three years are liable to be disqualified.

The anti-speed camera group Safe Speed said the Swinton move showed that cameras were damaging the penalty points system.

Swinton said that with 6,000 speed cameras on the road catching two million speeders every year and drivers using hand-held mobile phones now incurring three-point penalties, "an unblemished licence is becoming rare".

Neil Ackinclose of Swinton added: "Over the last few years we have seen a dramatic increase in the number of drivers with penalty points requesting insurance.

"A few years ago insurers might have assumed that a motorist with six or more points on their license was a reckless driver, but that is no longer necessarily the case.

"A 2006 YouGov survey estimated that 16 per cent of drivers now have points on their licence.

"As that figure continues to grow - with some estimating the actual number of drivers with points to be in the region of 10 million - insurance providers are having to accept that points alone can no longer be used as a yardstick for driver evaluation."

Safe Speed founder Paul Smith said: "Insurance companies are in the business of calculating risk to set their premiums.

"This announcement is all the proof we need to know that driving licence points no longer indicate risky drivers.

"The vast majority of licence points are for speeding offences detected by camera.

"The Department for Transport's needless and ineffective obsession with speed cameras has therefore seriously damaged the penalty points system."
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#156010 - 17th May 2007 9:05pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: Mark]
BMW Joe Offline
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Registered: 30th Apr 2006
Posts: 12369
Loc: Birkenhead
An excellent move.

There are very few people I know with a full clean licence, even the best drivers.

Perhaps it might be worth getting a quote?
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#156011 - 17th May 2007 9:10pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: BMW Joe]
krisGTi Offline
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Registered: 31st May 2006
Posts: 2855
Loc: moreton
yeh it is a good move. will b gettin a quote when my insureince is up
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#156014 - 17th May 2007 9:15pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: BMW Joe]
MattLFC Offline
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Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
An excellent move Joe??

Firstly, its something that has been done for ages by many insurance companies, its just the first time a company has made it actual policy.

Secondly, its a VERY bad move as it now encourages drivers to speed and drive dangerously, as they will soon feel that they can get upto 6 points and it wont even affect them.

And thirdly, why should we all pay the same price (I, and many people I know dont have points) for insurance, when its people who speed and drive dangerously and end up having accidents that make insurance costs so high.

I strongly disagree with them making insurance costs the same even for drivers with 6 points, they have got these points through dangerous driving one way or another, speed IS dangerous driving.

I personally believe this is more a marketing scam, which ultimately will lead to mass abuse of the current safe driving laws, as people will begin to see points as near-meaningless.

thumbsdown

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#156016 - 17th May 2007 9:19pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: MattLFC]
Mark Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21049
Loc: Wirral
Simple why should you be fined twice ?

1. The Ticket.
2. Your insurance.

Well done swinton for making a stand.
If i had points for speeding i would be calling them smile

Point discussed on Northwest Tonight by swinton insurance,

Points do not show if your a careless / dangerous driver.
Convictions do that.
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#156017 - 17th May 2007 9:20pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: MattLFC]
MattLFC Offline
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Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Wow I cant believe you are all agreeing with it, without considering the consequences of speeding. Twice in the last 2 years I have been doing ~30mph in built up area's and kids have run out into the road from behind park cars (once in Leasowe, once in the North End), and had I been doing 35mph, I would have hit them for sure.

35mph may not seem like speeding in a 30mph limit, even 40mph may not, but it DOES cause accidents, and DOES cause fatalities in some unfortunate situations.

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#156023 - 17th May 2007 9:26pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: Mark]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Originally Posted By: Mark
Points do not show if your a careless / dangerous driver.
Convictions do that.

In that case then, lets fook the speed laws you are basically saying, lets just drive at whatever speeds we want to, as just becuase someone got 3 points for doing 41mph in a 30mph limit, they were still driving as safe as possible and at no increased risk of having an accident.

Jeeze do you think the speed limits on non-motorway/dual carriageway routes are put in place to piss drivers off? They are there to help prevent accidents, and to help prevent fatalaties as a result of accidents. As a driver, we forget how vulnerable pedestrians can be.

If one of your family was hit by a driver doing 35mph in a 30mph limit zone, and ended up injured as a result, maybe even seriously, and it was found that had he travelling at less then 32mph in all likelyhood the accident wouldnt have happened, you would soon change your mind and realise that insurance companies charging higher premiums for points DOES deter drivers from speeding/driving dangerously. And you would be calling for them to be prosecuted. Yet its fine in your view at the moment, and its not dangerous driving to be doing so...

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#156024 - 17th May 2007 9:30pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: Mark]
BMW Joe Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 30th Apr 2006
Posts: 12369
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: Mark

Points do not show if your a careless / dangerous driver.
Convictions do that.


exactly.

Yes, an excellent move.

My insurance is extremely high as is with all newer drivers (i.e. less than 2 years) The only way for me to get lower insurance atm is to move to a better area (not likely), give up driving (which I have done temporarily just to save money from insurance), lie about my endorsements (which I don't want to do as it will invalidate my insurance) or build up my no claims - which I can't actually do as I can hardly afford insurance in the first place!

In no way will it encourage dangerous driving - why would it? "Oh, it's ok, I'll just drive round like an idiot because my insurance is low"

Don't forget, the 6 points within your first 2 years and you're back to a learner still applies.
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#156025 - 17th May 2007 9:33pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: BMW Joe]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Okay so it seems the people in this thread agree with and condone speeding... fair enough, but I just hope to god none of you dont have a member of your family or a friend hit and injured as a result of a speeding driver.

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#156026 - 17th May 2007 9:34pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: BMW Joe]
krisGTi Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 31st May 2006
Posts: 2855
Loc: moreton
an if u do end up getting 6 points in the 1st 2 years u have 2 do the 2 years over again
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#156027 - 17th May 2007 9:34pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: MattLFC]
BMW Joe Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 30th Apr 2006
Posts: 12369
Loc: Birkenhead
I dont agree with or condone speeding.

Its not all about speeding - what about parking offences, or that section 59 act?
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#156029 - 17th May 2007 9:40pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: BMW Joe]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Originally Posted By: BMW Joe
I dont agree with or condone speeding.

The reason its come in is because of the high amount of drivers getting fixed penalties for speeding.

Fixed penalty notices are only issued 99% of the time if you do wrong. Very few are issued for reasons other then actual driving offences. Not indicating IS dangerous. Parking on double yellows CAN be dangerous to other drivers and pedestrians. Speeding IS dangerous. Full stop.

And by agreeing that drivers should not be penalised on their insurance for things like speeding, you are condoning speeding and the insurance companies are removing one of the deterrents for people not to want to speed.

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#156053 - 17th May 2007 10:49pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: MattLFC]
Mark Offline


Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21049
Loc: Wirral
Speed camera's are the deterrents for speeding.
Coppers in a car.
A van on a hill.

Not that your insurance is going to be higher.

Originally Posted By: MattyC
and the insurance companies are removing one of the deterrents for people not to want to speed.


Its not the insurance companies responsibility to enforce speeding laws or fines.

I Hope this starts a trend amongst other insurance groups.
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#156054 - 17th May 2007 10:53pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: Mark]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
I give up, people seem to agree that speeding should not be punished and the people who dont speed (or at least get caught doing so) should pay the same price as the ones who do speed and yet are less likely to have an accident. Speeding is dangerous driving at the end of the day.

The only real deterrent for speeding to most people is the fact that insurance premiums rise more then anything, especially drivers under the age of 24, when this is removed, people wont be so worried.

Either way, its just a marketing scam by Swinton imho, they have been in decline for years.

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#156056 - 17th May 2007 11:08pm Re: Swinton Insurance - Ignore Speeding Points [Re: MattLFC]
BMW Joe Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 30th Apr 2006
Posts: 12369
Loc: Birkenhead
it isnt a deterrent though, its a punishment afterwards, ontop of a fine, points, ban, or revert back to a learner.

As your a man of your business-voted ways, I'll put it another way - it also affects businesses too.
If one of their drivers has points from an incident outside of work, their insurance increases so not only is it the individual that is affected.

Same goes with young drivers trying to afford a better way of getting around on their parents policies - insurance prices increase for them too, and they might not even have any points themselves.
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