WikiWirral 13yrs online 24/7 365 days a year.
Forum Stats
12247 Members
65 Forums
72885 Topics
982487 Posts
82 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
76 registered (11kendo, 13 invisible), 1671 Guests and 303 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us

(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
Incident at Westminster 875
What happened to Tranmere car bootie? 629
Martin Mcguinness dies 627
Alloys refurb and colour change. The Wheel Deal. 503
File too large 446
Council tax bill for this year 2017 445
British troops to Estonia 375
Offset number plates 353
Has anyone fished 346
1882 Plan of the borough of Birkenhead and Wards 323
New General Forums
Mannequin Challenge AKA MRI Scan
by fish5133
11:20 AM
Surely the most honest add.....
by buddy
20th Mar 2017 5:43pm
Happy Birthday DIZDAZDOZ
by snowhite
19th Mar 2017 4:24pm
My old friend the fox
by Dilly
18th Mar 2017 11:15am
New Wirral History
William Bernard's building, Birkenhead
by yoller
20th Mar 2017 4:27pm
1882 Plan of the borough of Birkenhead and Wards
by Dave_Wood
19th Mar 2017 11:57am
New Brighton Coop
by Mike_White
9th Mar 2017 12:48pm
Tranmere High School for Girls 1882 Chesnut Grove
by sarah708
6th Mar 2017 8:23pm
Whetstone Lane, Birkenhead
by MoretonExpat
6th Mar 2017 8:04am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Birkenhead Transport Museum 24th Feb 2017
fireworks on the Mersey last night
Topic Replies
I am having a clear out!
by jeffrey
1 minute 13 seconds ago
Has Talktalk been hacked yet again?
by fish5133
36 minutes 2 seconds ago
Incident at Westminster
by diggingdeeper
47 minutes 10 seconds ago
White Hyundai I30, 2011 plate For sale, 1.4 petrol
by goodoldphil
Today at 06:24 PM
What song are you listening to?
by starakita
Today at 02:56 PM
Offset number plates
by Gibbo
Today at 09:57 AM
'March' Photo Competition.
by fish5133
Yesterday at 08:53 PM
706 Plough Inn 25and 27 Breck Road Wallasey
by tigertiger1953
Yesterday at 04:25 PM
What are you eating today?
by Dilly
Yesterday at 01:44 PM
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Lee and Cragg Quarries - Bacup
by Mark
07:43 AM
Rufford Old Hall
by diggingdeeper
13th Mar 2017 9:58am
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#139601 - 16th Oct 2006 12:47am Group B rally: Birth to Death *****
Dazza Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 10th Nov 2003
Posts: 2899
Loc: Birkenhead
This topic is about the rise and fall of Group B rallying. This is NOT a copy/paste in anyway; I have researched the facts and figures to help educate people on what Group B rallying actually was and how everything changed.

Back in 1979 FISA (The current governing body) legalized all wheel drive, the current companies involved in rallying at the time thought that all wheel drive was overkill and that the extra components would be a concern for failure and that the systems needed would be too complex in design. Since FISA wasn’t starting a Group B until 1982, Audi decided that all wheel drive was the way to go so quickly set about building the Audi S1 Quattro.

The world of rallying changed when Hannu Mikkola used the S1 on a rally as a test, if he had of entered the rally he would have won by 9 minutes, proving that all wheel drive really was the way to go.

When group B was created there wasn’t allot manufacturers couldn’t enter so light weight space framed cars boasting over 500bhp and all wheel drive was expected in order to have a chance. Now, as Homologation rules state you must manufacture 200 of that type of car in order to be allowed entrance, soon enough every manufacturer wanted in so cars such as the Peugoet205 T16, Citroen BX TC-EVO, Lancia 037, Renault 5, Ford RS200 and Austin Metro 6R4 were created for entrance. The Rally going versions were uprated to the over 500bhp needed to stand a chance so the power increases came from anywhere possible.

Eyebrows were raised when people realized how dangerous this could potentially be so a comparison test was set at Estoril, the Portuguese Grand Prix circuit. A Delta S4 was used and driven by Henri Toivonen and it was capable of 0 - 62 (On Gravel) in 2.3seconds. Henri then drove the S4 around the Formula One track and its time was so impressive he would have come 6th in the Grand Prix. Nigel Martin (F1 driver) tested the Peugeot 205 T16 and admitted it would accelerate quicker than his F1 car could manage, and that Rally car drivers must have half the reaction time an F1 driver has due to not only the complexity of a rally stage but all the variances such as floor texture, weather conditions etc.

There were numerous deaths and near-fatalities such as Ari Vatanen in Peugeots 205 T16. The cars entered were constantly improving and Lancia decided to retire the 037 and used its new S4 as a replacement that was both turbo and supercharged. In 1986 at the Port Wine rally in Portugal a Ford RS200 got it wrong on the twisties and collided with a row of spectators killing three and injuring many. FISA's man concern was the F1 so little notice was taken about the condition of Group B rallying until Henri Toivonen driving the new S4 over ran a corner and slid down a verge and colliding with varies trees and rocks. Toivonen and his co-driver Sergio Cresto were killed and the car was engulfed in a frantic blaze with no witness's to the deaths.

Henri Toivonen's crash shook every team in Group B rally, and Ford and Audi refused to compete anymore, whilst the other teams finished the season before quitting. It was agreed that Group B rallying was too dangerous and was dissolved in 1986. No restrictions on power/weight/technology/materials and only 200 cars needed for production under homologation rules was too dangerous for motorsport. FISA tried a less intense version of Group B restricting a cars power output to 300bhp but allowed a homologation of only 10, allowing manufacturers to use innovative designs - Group S was canceled at the same time as Group B.

Edited by Dazza (16th Oct 2006 2:13am)
My website:

AutoWirral : Advertising
Click me for more Information......

Looking for a Service / Tradesman? Look in our Local Business Directory. Click Me
#139603 - 16th Oct 2006 2:15am Re: Group B rally: Birth to Death [Re: Dazza]
Mark Online   Reading

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21027
Loc: Wirral
Quality dazza, intresting happy

Enjoyed the info smile
My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile

#139608 - 16th Oct 2006 8:25am Re: Group B rally: Birth to Death [Re: Mark]
StuyMac Online   content

Wiki Master

Registered: 24th Nov 2003
Posts: 12002
Loc: Wirralshire
Ive got about 5 DVDs with the inclusion of the Group "B" era, and the cars certainly where stunning omg

Although Group B Cars where banned in Rallying, they where modified for other events like the Paris Dakar, and various rally Raids, this is what Ari Vatanen started back with after his near death crash in the T16.

Ari also raced a T16 version of the 405 up the famous Pikes Peak hill climb, Im pretty sure his record from the 80's also still stands omg

What If There Were No Hypothetical Questions?

#139616 - 16th Oct 2006 10:48am Re: Group B rally: Birth to Death [Re: StuyMac]
Scooby Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 5327
Loc: Birkenhead, Wirral.
What a brilliant topic buddy happy

I used to go and watch Group B Rallies as a youngster in Kielder forest in northumberland and it was so very very impressive.

The Metro 6R4 was the one car that sticks in my mind, simply awesome.....

Walking through miles and miles of boggy, snowy forests at 4 am in the morning to catch a glimpse of these awesome power machines, The good old days... What ever happened to them ???

#139646 - 16th Oct 2006 7:11pm Re: Group B rally: Birth to Death [Re: Scooby]
jimbo4x4 Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 3rd Mar 2004
Posts: 2912
Loc: Bebington
Jay, you make me want to have been around at those times. To think my dad nearly bought a 405 T16, I can't believe he passed it up smack

#139679 - 16th Oct 2006 11:02pm Re: Group B rally: Birth to Death [Re: jimbo4x4]
spinking Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 11th May 2004
Posts: 5093
Loc: Happy Home
Great topic Dazza thumbsup

I remember the rs200 most seen acouple of them at shows and 1 at santa pod which was VERYQUICK.

I have been out (as a passenger) in a 6r4 and it was a ride i will never forget carnt belive how fast it was.

Its a shame in many was they were banned but the speeds some of the cars were doing was stupid.

Chris bmw m3 has just done a trackday at Elvington and a Audi S1 Quattro was there he said nothing got near it straights corners even from standing start and the where some quick cars there.

Edited by tupac (16th Oct 2006 11:04pm)
drifting drifting and yet more skidding

#139722 - 17th Oct 2006 11:11am Re: Group B rally: Birth to Death [Re: Dazza]
MGCraig Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 16th Apr 2006
Posts: 5488
Loc: Spital
I love Group B beyond belief, makes me laugh when at New Brighton Rally, the newer imprezas cant keep up with the metro 6r4s....we had a visit the other day from a shelby gt500 and a Ford Rs200, right outside our motorsport workshop..needless to say not much work got done....



Moderator:  StuyMac 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Has Talktalk been hacked yet again?
by Habdab
10:25 AM
Offset number plates
by venice
01:24 AM
What does this all mean?
by venice
22nd Mar 2017 12:20pm
black contiboard locally?
by fish5133
21st Mar 2017 9:30pm
Port Sunlight
by alan128
21st Mar 2017 10:09am
For Sale & Free
White Hyundai I30, 2011 plate For sale, 1.4 petrol
by goodoldphil
06:24 PM
I am having a clear out!
by TheComputerLab
04:01 PM
Genuine Canada Goose Men's Chilliwack Jacket - L
by Liverpooltiger
01:14 PM
Nail Varnish Stands X 2 (holds 50 in each one)
by j_demo
20th Mar 2017 5:49pm
by madrob
19th Mar 2017 5:15pm
Featured Member
Registered: 31st Dec 2008
Posts: 578
Newest Members
Monkeyboyliam121, andreap, LairdLad, HollandGj, petaann
12247 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Has Talktalk been hacked yet again?
by Habdab
10:25 AM
What does this all mean?
by venice
22nd Mar 2017 12:20pm
black contiboard locally?
by fish5133
21st Mar 2017 9:30pm
Port Sunlight
by alan128
21st Mar 2017 10:09am
Council tax bill for this year 2017
by keef666
20th Mar 2017 10:25pm
News : New Topics
Incident at Westminster
by granny
22nd Mar 2017 3:40pm
Martin Mcguinness dies
by Dilly
21st Mar 2017 9:29am
British troops to Estonia
by fish5133
18th Mar 2017 8:16am
Unusual Phone calls
by granny
16th Mar 2017 3:53pm
by Christinerowland
14th Mar 2017 8:11pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Offset number plates
by venice
01:24 AM
File too large
by Dilly
20th Mar 2017 10:41am
ford focus 1.6 t reg rattling
by Little_B
19th Mar 2017 11:02pm
Alloys refurb and colour change. The Wheel Deal.
by TheComputerLab
18th Mar 2017 9:17am
Has anyone fished
by Habdab
17th Mar 2017 8:43pm
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Has Talktalk been hacked yet again? 94
Mannequin Challenge AKA MRI Scan 16
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Fri 6:02am
Sunset Fri 6:33pm
Local Time Fri 8:06pm
WikiWirral Can . . . .
Advertising Click me
To Advertise with
Wikiwirral Click Me