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Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080163
16th Oct 2020 4:34pm
16th Oct 2020 4:34pm
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Birkenhead
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The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: diggingdeeper] #1080165
16th Oct 2020 4:54pm
16th Oct 2020 4:54pm
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Birkenhead
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


Turns out this is the 1850 Tithebarn Street Station but has been named as a number of other stations in error or intent.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: billy_anorak59] #1080172
16th Oct 2020 7:42pm
16th Oct 2020 7:42pm
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Isle of Wight
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Originally Posted by billy_anorak59
Originally Posted by bri445
I can vaguely remember a weather vane of an outline of Stephenson's Rocket on the Aabacas building, seen from the top deck of my 50 or 58 bus as it stopped outside Sturla's shop. Many years ago!


This one bri? Not 'Rocket' though - more likely a L+M 'Planet' or similar.


So I wasn't dreaming, that's the one!
I was only guessing the type, so now it looks like a R. Stephenson 'Patentee', like this photo of a later version.

Attached Files
001.jpg (88 downloads)
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: billy_anorak59] #1080188
17th Oct 2020 8:58am
17th Oct 2020 8:58am
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birkenhead
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Originally Posted by billy_anorak59
Birkenhead Town to left - original Grange Lane to right (later Abacus Works) - looks like the flyovers are being started in the foreground.

I suspect the original Grange Lane station to be the building with the damaged roof and advertising billboard on it, and not the Aabacas works.
Can anyone clarify this?

Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: diggingdeeper] #1080193
17th Oct 2020 11:28am
17th Oct 2020 11:28am
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birkenhead
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


Turns out this is the 1850 Tithebarn Street Station but has been named as a number of other stations in error or intent.

Seems like they are using it as a stock image.
https://alchetron.com/Birkenhead-Dock-railway-station

Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1080214
19th Oct 2020 11:18am
19th Oct 2020 11:18am
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Cambridgeshire
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Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by billy_anorak59
Birkenhead Town to left - original Grange Lane to right (later Abacus Works) - looks like the flyovers are being started in the foreground.

I suspect the original Grange Lane station to be the building with the damaged roof and advertising billboard on it, and not the Aabacas works.
Can anyone clarify this?


I can’t clarify with proof, but I can certainly muddy the waters further!

Personally, I believe the Abacus building to be the original Grange Lane terminus - the building with the holes in roof just looks, well, so mundane for a prestigious terminus station in the new up-and-coming town of Birkenhead. This railway was the wonder of the age, and making a statement was what the Victorians loved - I don’t think that single storey building would have impressed the investors or punters. The ‘Abacus’ building might have done, and looks to be in period for 1840.

Grange Lane station only operated as such from September 1840 to May 1844, (when it was closed as a passenger station and traffic re-routed to Monks Ferry), but it’s position would have been right at the end of a dead-straight approach – why would it kink slightly to the right to the lowly building at the end of the approach?
1845 map crop attached.

Looking at the Abacus building – imagine it without the saw-tooth roofed engineering works behind it, and then imagine it with a light and airy double span roof instead, all cast iron columns and girders. Now note that the ‘Abacus’ building conveniently has a double gabled roof, one for each train shed roof to butt up to (the hipped roof at the front of the building masks this feature from the road, but the aerial gives it away).

In this guise, you get the single track approaching a delicate looking train shed with the stone built ‘Abacus’ building right behind it. Much more like a typical terminus station of the period, probably with 2 platform faces in the centre, and loco-servicing spurs. Possibly a small goods yard where that single-storey building is too.
I've attached a crude photo edit to show what I mean.

I reckon the saw-tooth building was added once the station closed to passengers, and partly covered what had been the station precincts. It looks far more purposed for engineering than passengers.

All just my opinion - just need to find more proof!


BTW: Some more information on WirralWiki regarding the Grange Lane / Town area:

More on Wirral Railways from 1830...

…might be worth a read?

Attached Files
map1845GL.jpg (70 downloads)
town1934mod.jpg (71 downloads)

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080224
20th Oct 2020 1:48pm
20th Oct 2020 1:48pm
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tranmere
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Birkenhead Town Map, 1858.

I can't make the map any clearer, to the right, at the end of the marked green proposed road is what was Grange Lane station, compare the outline to the previous map I posted earlier in the thread, a little bit more detailed to the map Billy posted above.

[Linked Image]


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080225
20th Oct 2020 3:00pm
20th Oct 2020 3:00pm
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Cambridgeshire
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Thanks Bert - much appreicated.

This map is dated 1858 then? That's 14 years after Grange Lane closed - the building shown here is a lot longer than that on the 1845 map crop I posted. Therefore, I think the original station had already been developed by this time (Monks Ferry and the dock lines are also complete and operating by now), and this map shows the 'saw-roofed' engineering building. Can you make out what it says on the map over the top of the building?

Whatever, it still shows that the approach is dead-straight towards the 'Abacus' building, and doesn't deviate to the single storey buidling with the holes in it's roof.


Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080226
20th Oct 2020 4:01pm
20th Oct 2020 4:01pm
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tranmere
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Sorry Billy, the more I zoom the worse it goes, I think it's definitely the building Aabacas occupied many years later, probably sometime between 1911 and 1938. As you know it only closed to passengers in 1844 ish and not as a station, etc.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080227
20th Oct 2020 4:20pm
20th Oct 2020 4:20pm
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tranmere
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bert1 Offline

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A much later map, after 1889 when Town station opened.

[Linked Image]


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080229
Yesterday at 01:35 AM
Yesterday at 01:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,637
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Birkenhead
Yep, I'll concede that the Aabacus building is indeed Grange Lane Station. The 1847 docks map makes it pretty clear as that was surveyed before the LNWR and GWR railway sheds were built.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080231
Yesterday at 02:53 PM
Yesterday at 02:53 PM
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Posts: 1,184
birkenhead
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birkenhead
I too concede it was Grange lane Station.
It was the engine sheds that was throwing me off, as I thought they were all the original ones.
A snippet off Disused Stations, "The original C&BR station was then given over to goods use and the engine shed was extended over part of it in 1857"

Just above the arrow and the sidings on this 1876 map, can anyone shed any light on what that building was? That's what I thought was the original Grange Lane.
[Linked Image]
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/birkenhead_grange_lane/index.shtml

Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080234
Yesterday at 03:04 PM
Yesterday at 03:04 PM
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Posts: 13,637
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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That building changed shape and size a few times.

I can only presume it was a goods depot for mail etc, they would need one somewhere. The ramp that came down from Town Station appeared to make a point of passing that until it turned and headed down towards the platform.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080235
Yesterday at 03:27 PM
Yesterday at 03:27 PM
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birkenhead
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On BFA it seems to be part of the engineering works yard.

Re: Road leading to Queensway tunnel [Re: chris58] #1080240
Yesterday at 08:36 PM
Yesterday at 08:36 PM
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Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Birkenhead
But it was about twenty feet above the yard without any obvious means of getting to it without hopping over to the ramp between the ticket office and the platform.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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