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Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076419
9th Apr 2020 2:08pm
9th Apr 2020 2:08pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,165
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granny Offline
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Lunchtime news North West , indicated that Merseyside police will be stopping and asking drivers of their intentions about this weekend.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Re: Coronavirus [Re: granny] #1076420
9th Apr 2020 2:21pm
9th Apr 2020 2:21pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,370
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by granny
Lunchtime news North West , indicated that Merseyside police will be stopping and asking drivers of their intentions about this weekend.

I have no problem with that, it is sensible, proportionate, not threatening and not invading your privacy.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076421
9th Apr 2020 2:45pm
9th Apr 2020 2:45pm
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 886
Greasby
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Greenwood Online content
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Greenwood  Online Content
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Greasby
That's fair enough. The idea of searching trolleys is a bit extreme, unless they're trying to stop people buying a partysworth of alcohol or something and nip such events in the bud - I'd have thought they'd have enough on their plate without that, if the stats on number of gatherings in Greater Manchester already reported is anything to go by. What planet are these partygoers on, FFS?!*

Last edited by Greenwood; 9th Apr 2020 2:46pm. Reason: Typos. Always typos!
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076438
10th Apr 2020 5:21am
10th Apr 2020 5:21am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,370
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Here he is, media was exaggerating a bit.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076452
10th Apr 2020 8:28am
10th Apr 2020 8:28am
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 368
Wirral
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philmch Offline
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000h3nm/horizon-2020-coronavirus-special-part-1

Very informative programme from last night.

Proper empirical scientific stuff. None of your 5G conspiracy theorist crap.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076460
10th Apr 2020 11:09am
10th Apr 2020 11:09am
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 886
Greasby
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Greenwood Online content
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Greasby
Thanks for the tip - will catch it on iplayer. I see in the Radio Times that there's a second part coming up, too.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076499
10th Apr 2020 8:37pm
10th Apr 2020 8:37pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,370
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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How many times have I heard "don't blame the Government", well I do, after all this is over there needs to be a public inquiry over the whole mismanagement of this crisis.

Despite having much more warning time than Italy, we have managed to achieve worst stats, 980 deaths in one day which is more than Italy or Spain had at their peak. And we aren't at our peak yet.

The Government was totally ill-prepared and acted far to late on everything they did. Yet again the Tories have caused significant numbers of people to die.

May they rot in hell!


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076501
10th Apr 2020 10:15pm
10th Apr 2020 10:15pm
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Greasby
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Greenwood Online content
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Greasby
Mistakes will not be forgotten and they will not be forgiven. All their 'long-term under-funding of Police, NHS, Social care etc' chickens will be coming home to roost.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: Greenwood] #1076515
11th Apr 2020 1:35pm
11th Apr 2020 1:35pm
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,066
wallasey
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casper Online content
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Originally Posted by Greenwood
Mistakes will not be forgotten and they will not be forgiven. All their 'long-term under-funding of Police, NHS, Social care etc' chickens will be coming home to roost.


The trouble is they will be forgotten, Matt Hancock on the news trying to blag his way out of the PPE crisis, blaming logistical problems the alleged millions of sets of PPE ready to roll, lets look at weight and volume for transportation, masks, gloves, aprons, it doesn't take a genius to work out, I remember being on the reserve list when the Falklands was on and extra vehicles were available from TA units and TA drivers to run stuff to Southhampton if they are that short, and to top that he is basically saying re - use some of the ppe stuff, if that doesn't stink of shortage what does? in the meantime those in need are left to there own devices, criminal that's all I can say, If it was a company the HSE would have stepped in, serious and imminent danger i.e the possible loss of life.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076517
11th Apr 2020 2:05pm
11th Apr 2020 2:05pm
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keef666 Offline
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Yes and i blame the government, they had plenty of time to get this sorted, and sick and tied of hearing "Protect the NHS!" so there asking us because they can't do it! when you think of the Billions that gets pumped into the NHS and the number of deaths this country is having compared to Spain and Italy and they don't have an NHS, is appalling!
My neighbour works in an ambulance station and they can't get hold of PPE for crews who have to transport people with COVID 19, because the NHS won't release it.
I think back to a story i read at the end of November last year about a new kind of flu someone had caught in Thailand and thought that if that starts spreading the Worlds in for a heap of trouble?

Re: Coronavirus [Re: keef666] #1076528
11th Apr 2020 5:31pm
11th Apr 2020 5:31pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,370
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by keef666
Y..... into the NHS and the number of deaths this country is having compared to Spain and Italy and they don't have an NHS, is appalling!

Yes they do.

Spain has the 7th best healthcare system in the World "Sistema Nacional de Salud" SND

Italy has the 2nd best healthcare system in the World "Servizio Sanitario Nazionale" SSN


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076529
11th Apr 2020 5:44pm
11th Apr 2020 5:44pm
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,066
wallasey
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casper Online content
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wallasey
Just watched Pritti Patel, supposed apology, more like a disgusting display of indifference, also denying that any of the deaths of NHS staff are due to the shortage of PPE, a death toll of nearly 10,000 and god knows how many more, heartbreaking.

Last edited by casper; 11th Apr 2020 5:45pm.
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076531
11th Apr 2020 5:56pm
11th Apr 2020 5:56pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,370
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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In Romania ten babies got infected in a maternity ward, caught from the staff who didn't wear masks (parents were tested clear). And now we have Matt Hancock dictating where NHS staff MUST NOT wear PPE, even the whole of Monty Python's satire couldn't get close to this.

And still the mainstream media are not holding the Government to account, more space given to Boris's recovery than the 10,000 deaths so far.

It is very very late but the Government could pull their finger out to limit even more unnecessary deaths.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076533
11th Apr 2020 7:50pm
11th Apr 2020 7:50pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,165
Wirral
granny Offline
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Not sure what angle this is coming from. Yes, medical staff and nursing staff have fallen to this virus, which is very sad . On the other side the 10,000 deaths are not resulting from NHS staff not having the correct PPE.
It's not possible to issue everyone in the country with masks but w could make them ourselves if we want them. The public as you know, have been remiss in following guidelines , which has undoubtedly contributed to the high figures.
We also had the issue of China putting a ban on exports of PPE in March, which is where we had placed our orders (or some of them) . WHO have also been remiss in their guidelines, the orders we got for PPE from Europe arrived by sea into Liverpool because they could not come across land. That was another hold up and how long does it take to get supplies to fill 3,500 containers to be shipped from various countries in the EU.
Once arrived in the UK, contents of 3,500 containers had to be unloaded, passed by customs, collected by transporting companies, despatched to suppliers, stocks checked and counted, and then by transport companies delivered to the NHS for delivery. Then sent to all the hospitals, prisons , care homes throughout the UK.
How long do you think all that takes ?

10,000 deaths are not the result of lack of PPE.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1076534
11th Apr 2020 8:48pm
11th Apr 2020 8:48pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,370
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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You can't make effective masks yourself, an N95 mask is difficult to make without specialist materials, a IIR rated mask even more so. Italy was using respirators, I doubt if the NHS even has staff respirators in any noticeable numbers.

Without loads of aprons the cross contamination rates increase.

Without sufficient PPE less staff can be used, many people with CV weren't even tested, the hospitals sent them home.

What happened to our national reserves of emergency equipment, they know the annual flu can have epidemics.

There are more facts coming out. Some deaths are partly being caused by improper use of ventilators because most hospitals don't have a fully trained specialist and there has been too little research into the use of ventilators.

BCG is very effective in reducing CV rates but we stopped routinely giving that in 2005 and it starts wearing off after 15 years. We should be ramping up the production of the BCG vaccine as a backup plan.

Substantial numbers of the 10,000 deaths were caused by the slowness of the Government to react in a sensible manner. We had much more time than many other countries to prepare ourselves but Boris thought that waving his tongue would frighten the virus away.

The UK totally ignored WHO's recommendations both before and after the start of CV, you can't reverse blame on WHO. The Government even ignored its own recommendations let alone anybody else's.

The NHS is often called the most efficient health service in the world, that is because of what it achieves with so little money compared to other countries. Much of it is now contracted out so when you take into account the profits also being taken away by private companies then it has even less funds being used for health care.




The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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