WikiWirral is where great friendships are made.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,024,675
Topics75,366
Members13,294
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs61
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
47 registered members (assassin, 9 invisible), 1,445 guests, and166 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Local food shops that deliver
by assassin. 4th Apr 2020 5:09pm
HMS Prince of Wales
by buddy. 29th Mar 2020 11:06am
Clocks go forward
by cools. 28th Mar 2020 9:09pm
LIVE WORLD CAMS
by rocks. 23rd Mar 2020 8:46pm
New Wirral History
Childrens Home - Upton??
by dingle. 31st Mar 2020 6:29am
Did Wallasey ever have a Rudgrave Avenue?
by Greenwood. 19th Mar 2020 12:25pm
Legal question from 1852 Derby Arms pub Rock Ferry
by soonguy. 11th Mar 2020 11:04am
461 Collingwood, Black Horse Hill, West Kirby
by diggingdeeper. 3rd Mar 2009 8:30pm
618 Twenty Row Inn, Leasowe Road
by uptoncx. 1st Mar 2009 8:13pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
Topic Replies
Isle Of Man resident looking for past love
by CaptSanta. 6th Apr 2020 10:03pm
Coronavirus
by cools. 6th Apr 2020 8:43pm
Where in the World
by granny. 6th Apr 2020 2:48pm
Suzuki LT80 K4 for Sale or Exchange For a Pursang
by Bultaco. 6th Apr 2020 2:07pm
What song are you listening to?
by GaryFromWirral. 5th Apr 2020 11:44pm
Bultaco pursang
by Bultaco. 3rd Apr 2020 12:54pm
Chat : Wirral Pubs Past & Present
by diggingdeeper. 3rd Apr 2020 2:33am
320 Pacific Hotel
by diggingdeeper. 3rd Apr 2020 2:04am
Old Car Photo
by diggingdeeper. 3rd Apr 2020 1:54am
April
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
View The Space Station
by Greenwood. 28th Mar 2020 4:10pm
Birkenhead History Society
by Norton. 8th Mar 2020 6:11pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Legal question from 1852 Derby Arms pub Rock Ferry #1075225
11th Mar 2020 11:04am
11th Mar 2020 11:04am
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 4
Derby uk
S
soonguy Offline OP
Beginner
soonguy  Offline OP
Beginner
S
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 4
Derby uk
Please, are there any legal eagles who can unpack this newspaper report from 1852. What it seems to say is that the landlord Richard Crafter (an ancestor) of the Derby House (now the Derby Arms) in Rock Ferry has got into financial difficulties and is, I guess, owing both the leasehold owner of the building, and the brewery. But how does this differ from bankruptcy? For, in fact, Richard Crafter was to happily continue as landlord there for another nine years, not only operating the Derby Arms, but also doing mobile catering at events on the race course in Chester.

I would also like to find an old photo of the Derby Arms, if anyone knows of one.

Grateful thanks.

Attached Files
creditors 1852.JPG (55 downloads)
Last edited by soonguy; 11th Mar 2020 11:05am.
Google Ads
Re: Legal question from 1852 Derby Arms pub Rock Ferry [Re: soonguy] #1075231
11th Mar 2020 9:51pm
11th Mar 2020 9:51pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,231
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,231
Birkenhead
As trustees had been appointed, this may be after bankruptcy had been sought, this would be then be the liquidation and distribution of assets.

There are mechanisms for trustees to be appointed without bankruptcy through voluntary liquidation especially if all the creditors agreed to the settlement.

It partly depends if the action was forced or voluntary. There are a lot of different variants of liquidation with the ultimate object being to minimise losses to creditors. If there is a substantial return available to the creditors then bankruptcy can be detrimental to the process.

I don't think there is enough detail to decide if bankruptcy was the case or not.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the shit hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Legal question from 1852 Derby Arms pub Rock Ferry [Re: soonguy] #1075253
12th Mar 2020 3:58pm
12th Mar 2020 3:58pm
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 731
Wallasey
Norton Online Reading

Veteran
Norton  Online Reading

Veteran
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 731
Wallasey
'The London Gazette' has details from the Bankruptcy Courts. Search on the gov.uk website.

Try this link - Insolvency searches

"Search for an insolvent person or company
You might need to find out if someone or a company is insolvent.
To search for companies registered in the UK, you can use the Companies House service, or search the London Gazette.
If you’re looking for an insolvent or bankrupt person, you can search the individual insolvency register. If the person or company you’re looking for is not on this list, they are not currently in formal insolvency proceedings."

Re: Legal question from 1852 Derby Arms pub Rock Ferry [Re: diggingdeeper] #1075263
13th Mar 2020 11:09am
13th Mar 2020 11:09am
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 4
Derby uk
S
soonguy Offline OP
Beginner
soonguy  Offline OP
Beginner
S
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 4
Derby uk
Thanks so much both for your wisdom. Much appreciated.

Re: Legal question from 1852 Derby Arms pub Rock Ferry [Re: soonguy] #1075324
17th Mar 2020 7:46am
17th Mar 2020 7:46am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,962
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,962
Wirral

Richard Crafter was my Gt, gt.gt. Grandfather. He didn't own the Derby Arms Pub, so don't know how he could have been made bankrupt. He wasn't an ancestor of Derby House , don't know what that's supposed to mean. He worked there according to one of the census. He was born in Kent and moved up to this area (Liverpool first I believe ) to work as a gardener. Previously he had worked for The East India Company .
After leaving the Derby Arms Pub, he went to the Chester Arms , Parkgate. (now the Old Quay)

I have a photo of the Derby Arms Pub. watch this space and I will put it up later. Copy taken from a book

I can't read the link you have posted, so I don't know what it says, however if you wish to know anything more, please say.

Last edited by granny; 17th Mar 2020 7:55am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Legal question from 1852 Derby Arms pub Rock Ferry [Re: soonguy] #1075325
17th Mar 2020 8:09am
17th Mar 2020 8:09am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,231
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,231
Birkenhead
An ancestor of original poster. Presumably he leased the Pub then agreed to work for the owners to settle his debt.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the shit hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Legal question from 1852 Derby Arms pub Rock Ferry [Re: soonguy] #1075326
17th Mar 2020 8:32am
17th Mar 2020 8:32am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,962
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,962
Wirral
Maybe that's it, I've just sent a message to my sister. She knows all the ins and outs of this family. I know that there was legal business carried out on the premises (don't know what they are called off hand) Relating to maybe accidents, or incidents in the locality. The Derby Arms was where they held the inquires into such matters. (such inquests were mentioned in the Old Mersey Times .)

At the time Richard Crafter was there they also had a number of residents, so maybe unpaid bills. I don't understand legal jargon

If Soonguy is an ancestor, he's going to get his head in knots.

Last edited by granny; 17th Mar 2020 8:38am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Isle Of Man resident looking for past love
by CaptSanta. 4th Apr 2020 9:19am
Childrens Home - Upton??
by dingle. 31st Mar 2020 6:29am
Free amazon prime for kids
by assassin. 30th Mar 2020 6:46pm
Abuse Victims
by granny. 29th Mar 2020 1:49pm
HMS Prince of Wales
by buddy. 29th Mar 2020 11:06am
For Sale & Free
Suzuki LT80 K4 for Sale or Exchange For a Pursang
by Bultaco. 6th Apr 2020 2:07pm
2003 Vauxhall Astra bertone convertible
by _Ste_. 31st Mar 2020 10:25pm
Mini Cooper convertible 2005
by _Ste_. 31st Mar 2020 3:56pm
2008 Focus convertible 38,000 miles
by _Ste_. 31st Mar 2020 3:38pm
iMac 27" WANTED £1000 ££££
by _Ste_. 31st Mar 2020 1:54pm
Member Spotlight
rocks
rocks
3/4 of the way there....
Posts: 6,671
Joined: April 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
paullll, Carly76789, aubrey999, DebbieW, Honeybun007
13294 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Isle Of Man resident looking for past love
by CaptSanta. 4th Apr 2020 9:19am
Prisoner Early Release
by Bultaco. 25th Mar 2020 10:10am
View The Space Station
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Mar 2020 2:29am
Mersey Tunnels
by Heswall1958. 8th Mar 2020 5:32pm
Birkenhead History Society
by locomotive. 7th Mar 2020 8:06pm
News : New Topics
Abuse Victims
by granny. 29th Mar 2020 1:49pm
Car Keys
by Baza7. 27th Mar 2020 9:25pm
Bin Men Safety
by diggingdeeper. 27th Mar 2020 12:36pm
Marine Lake Path Closed
by diggingdeeper. 25th Mar 2020 2:40pm
Oxton Bar and Terrace Boycott
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Mar 2020 10:51pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Free amazon prime for kids
by assassin. 30th Mar 2020 6:46pm
Everybody loves Raymond
by cools. 26th Mar 2020 9:05am
Image convertor apps
by cools. 24th Mar 2020 3:24pm
NHS-CORONAVIRUS UPDATES
by granny. 18th Mar 2020 9:42am
Belgravia
by cools. 15th Mar 2020 9:07am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Mon 6:30am
Sunset Mon 7:57pm
Local Time Mon 10:14pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1