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Re: Election 2019 [Re: svenlock68] #1072905
2nd Dec 2019 4:54pm
2nd Dec 2019 4:54pm
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Originally Posted by svenlock68
https://youtu.be/YazVR7Dnhtk

Watch this and enjoy. This is the mps / euro truth people dont want to hear


David Noakes the fraudster whose £7.9m of illegal sales led him to a 12 month jail sentence and 3 months for money laundering. I wonder what scam he has running now?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
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Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072907
2nd Dec 2019 5:25pm
2nd Dec 2019 5:25pm
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Wallasey
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Oh dear, how is that nonsense still being bandied around? Noakes peddled a cure for cancer and many other illnesses including autism and acne which was derived from human blood including his own. His"cure" had no basis in science and was unlicensed.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/is-eu-nazi-project-debunking-enduring-myth/

Re: Election 2019 [Re: Salmon] #1072908
2nd Dec 2019 6:11pm
2nd Dec 2019 6:11pm
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Originally Posted by Salmon
Oh dear, how is that nonsense still being bandied around? Noakes peddled a cure for cancer and many other illnesses including autism and acne which was derived from human blood including his own. His"cure" had no basis in science and was unlicensed.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/is-eu-nazi-project-debunking-enduring-myth/


There is an element of truth in both.

MAF is still being looked at as it can trigger the bodies immune system to attack things.

Germany is undeniably dominating the EU both economically and power-wise, there is also the continual advancement into European confederalism. It pretty much follows the plan stated when Germany realised they were losing WW2. More recently Germany has a military pact with Romania, Holland and the Czech Republic showing they want to build a European Army even if its not sanctioned by the EU..


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072913
2nd Dec 2019 11:07pm
2nd Dec 2019 11:07pm
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Birkenhead
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Boris might be daft enough to see this woman, that would be an interesting encounter.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1201467410416635904


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072915
3rd Dec 2019 6:36am
3rd Dec 2019 6:36am
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granny Offline OP
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Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys who earns a million and who doesn't. Nobody complains about the footballers salaries but they complain about the Queens 58p per person per year. Nobody complains about someone spending a fortune on 'season tickets' but cry for the others that can't eat. So your philosophy is to have everyone earning the same and then nobody could enjoy anything ?
There are always those above on a higher level, even if you think everyone should be ' working class', or maybe 'upper class', I don't know because if you don't want to be 'working class' and ' upper class' is 'snobby'... what do you want ??

Let's not pretend that Labour were the single handed architects of the Welfare State !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report

In 1940, during the Second World War, the Labour Party entered into a coalition with the Conservative Party. On 10 June 1941 Arthur Greenwood, the Labour MP and Minister without Portfolio, announced the creation of an inter-departmental committee which would carry out a survey of Britain's social insurance and allied services:


To undertake, with special reference to the inter-relation of the schemes, a survey of the existing national schemes of social insurance and allied services, including workmen's compensation, and to make recommendations.

Its members were civil servants from the Home Office, Ministry of Labour and National Service, Ministry of Pensions, Government Actuary, Ministry of Health, HM Treasury, Reconstruction Secretariat, Board of Customs and Excise, Assistance Board, Department of Health for Scotland, Registry of Friendly Societies and Office of the Industrial Assurance Commissioner.

The report was printed by Alabaster Passmore & Sons Limited which kept their factory in Maidstone busy when there was very little other printing work available.

On December 1, 1942, the wartime coalition government published a report entitled 'Social Security and Allied Services'. This report was written by William Beveridge , a highly respected economist. The Beveridge Report swiftly became the plan for his Britain welfare state. Over forty years later, his report would go on to be referred to as 'by any measure a landmark'.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072916
3rd Dec 2019 7:03am
3rd Dec 2019 7:03am
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granny Offline OP
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Venezuela has been riddled with all sorts, but mainly Socialism and the problems still remain. Brother in law is Venezuelan, although he has lived here since his marriage his family had to get out with nothing . His mum in her late 80's and sister and brothers live in Spain now. They weren't a hard up family, but they ended up with nothing.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072918
3rd Dec 2019 9:37am
3rd Dec 2019 9:37am
Joined: May 2012
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wallasey
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[quote=granny]Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys who earns a million and who doesn't. Nobody complains about the footballers salaries but they complain about the Queens 58p per person per year. Nobody complains about someone spending a fortune on 'season tickets' but cry for the others that can't eat. So your philosophy is to have everyone earning the same and then nobody could enjoy anything ?
There are always those above on a higher level, even if you think everyone should be ' working class', or maybe 'upper class', I don't know because if you don't want to be 'working class' and ' upper class' is 'snobby'... what do you want ??

A bit of a sweeping statement granny, nobody complains about footballers salaries and season tickets, the prices they charge are obscene as are footballers wages, but I also disagree with paying some members of the Royal family especially when they abuse the privilege, as to being working class or upper class ( I wonder who who thought those labels up?) I just want to be a decent human being, I don't begrudge people earning higher wages but I do begrudge those that pay themselves obscene amounts and then whine about paying taxes and then squirrel it away in an off shore account to avoid their responsibilities, the same people that can get justice when others are denied it, because of who they are, most people aren't looking for utopia just a little more equality, I was always told that I was no better than anybody else but that nobody else was better than me.

Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072919
3rd Dec 2019 10:32am
3rd Dec 2019 10:32am
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Birkenhead
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Football is the classic example of why capitalism spirals out of control. Eventually everything heads towards monopolies and then there is little or no financial competition. The Football Association is nothing to do with football its purely about screwing money out of everything.

Why is the FA allowed to exist as a monopoly without controls?

Some people are paid too much, how can you justify people earning millions when their company is failing?

I don’t think you can call a country riddled with capitalist corruption a socialist country. There are a few countries approaching socialism and they are doing very well at the moment. Portugal, Norway etc


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072925
4th Dec 2019 11:06am
4th Dec 2019 11:06am
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granny Offline OP
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There is Socialism and Socialism.. and if you think Corbyn's form of Socialism will see this country flourish, then I think you are extremely misjudging the underlying agenda.

With regard to the tax avoidance, there are policies in place to tackle this within the EU and in this country.

Who was responsible for securing, propping up and contributing to Liverpool One.. for example. Duke of Westminster gave £1 billion to Liverpool One.
We used to have Fry's ,Cadbury's , and many others who put their money into work, growth , homes and sustainable living.
That fell by the wayside, but the policy of such is being reinvented again. This time in NGO's , Charities and Foundations. Another way to squirrel the tax free money away as in the case of Tony Bliar, the Beckhams, and many, many more.
It seems everyone will be living under a Charitable Trust before too long.
It's the system that helps the very rich and fails the poor. However, if anyone thinks that Corbyn is able to tackle that 'giant', then they've got to be living on cloud cuckoo.
The Royal Family, those who are paid apart from the Queen who is paid for by the Tax payer for her Royal Duties (58p per year per person) , are paid from the Crown Estates. Profits from the Crown Estates are Public Money and it all goes to the Treasury . The Crown Estates are the business which employs thousand of people who work for them, and also If Corbyn wishes to rid this country of the Monarchy, there's no better way that to apply Corporation Tax to the 'land owners' as opposed to the businesses that reside on the land, which is a pledge he has made.
Last year the Crown Estates contributed £392 million to the treasury totally almost £3 Billion over the last 10 years.

Apply Corporation Tax to for example the land Liverpool One resides on, and you will see the costs transferred in the form of ' rent to the businesses' thus making the customer paying more for everything. Everything is handed down to the customers. For the State to retake that land and/ or the businesses to fail who would be responsible for regenerating such an area ? Yes... You the tax payer !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072927
4th Dec 2019 12:00pm
4th Dec 2019 12:00pm
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Wirral
granny Offline OP
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Crown Estates portfolio. Read and see what the Crown Estates actually do.. Put it into the hands of Government and if would be a hundred times worse than Gordon Brown selling off the nations gold reserves

https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en...income-returned-for-the-public-finances/

Last edited by granny; 4th Dec 2019 12:02pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072933
4th Dec 2019 6:39pm
4th Dec 2019 6:39pm
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Birkenhead
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The Duke of Westminster did not give £1bn to Liverpool One, he owned it, it was an investment. The Project was also heavily subsidised by public money.

Liverpool One concept was initiated by Liverpool City Council in 1998, in 2000 Liverpool City Council chose the Grosvenor Group (a private company owned by the Duke of Westminster) to run with the project but the main contract wasn't signed until 2003 due to them trying to steam-roller the project.

IIRC Grosvenor owned the land anyway so it was the job of the Council to sell the idea to Grosvenor on how to use his land as an investment.

The Duke of Westminster went from being the wealthiest person in the UK to almost losing everything due to mismanagement of his estate, Liverpool One was one of the projects that helped his financial recovery.

Virgin's West Coast Mainline received £2.8bn in subsidies and some of that they kept as "profits", that excludes the £9bn line upgrade paid for by the public and the train upgrades largely paid for by the public.. If we are going to sink that sort of money into projects isn't it much better to buy it as an asset and have something to show for the huge amounts of money that are currently given away to the rich. It is also of note that Virgin quite often didn't even reach their own targets.

The Crown Estate is managed by the Government and run the same manner as most Government Departments are these days, by creating an agency or wholly owned company. As a return over value of 2.5% per year it is not doing brilliantly. People that work for the Crown Estate are Civil Servants.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072936
4th Dec 2019 11:55pm
4th Dec 2019 11:55pm
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Wirral
granny Offline OP
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Civil Servants are not aligned to a political party . The Crown Estate is a business and is a collection of lands and holdings in the territories of England, Wales and Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom belonging to the British monarch as a corporation sole, making it the "Sovereign's public estate", which is neither government property nor part of the monarch's private estate.

Liverpool One .. Yes, half the investment cash came from him. More than £1bn was pumped into building almost 200 new shops, including John Lewis and Debenhams stores. Around half of the investment cash came from the Duke, whose full name was Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor. (Taken from L'pool Echo August 2016, but I can't copy post the link) .

We know it was his land, and it was the downturn and recession of 2007/2008 that hit Grosvenor Estates, and it was the Duke of Westminster who propped up Liverpool One during that period. Without whom, maybe it would have failed. To say he was almost bankrupt (which I;m sure would have been a joyful news read for many ! ) The company may have been on the brink but he wasn't that is completely false.
I'm sure that had it not been his land, council would not have afforded to do the same..

" The late duke’s influence was evident in riskier business decisions, such as Grosvenor Group’s backing for the £1 billion Liverpool One shopping centre, which opened in 2008 and, in the words of one industry figure, “would have probably bankrupted a lesser firm”. One of the duke’s choices for Desert Island Discs was the song Ferry Cross the Mersey. Without his “personal commitment and faith in Liverpool”, it was unlikely the complex would have been built, says Richard Kemp, a Liberal Democrat councillor in Liverpool."

"One of the real success stories has been the Liverpool One shopping centre, which opened in 2008. At the time, the group wrote off £165m of its value and it was seen as a white elephant for Grosvenor. But the centre is now full and winning international awards.
Despite making a £140m loss on the Liverpool One urban regeneration project, Grosvenor Group – the family’s main property company – saw its profits rise 38% to £508.7m in 2006. The value of its assets rose 23% to £4.6bn." .

So it's clear that these hereditary 'rich' people are most certainly putting in a huge amount to society without most of us realising it. On the other hand 'Get quick rich ' prats are the ones engaged in 'tax avoidance ' schemes. Those born with nothing and rise through corruption are clearly those who continue the path corruption .

I suppose this idea of slaying the rich to help the poor also is directed towards Whittaker of Peel Holdings. His company is registered in the Isle of Man

Last edited by granny; 5th Dec 2019 12:10am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Election 2019 [Re: casper] #1072937
5th Dec 2019 12:20am
5th Dec 2019 12:20am
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[quote=casper

A bit of a sweeping statement granny, nobody complains about footballers salaries and season tickets, the prices they charge are obscene as are footballers wages, but I also disagree with paying some members of the Royal family especially when they abuse the privilege, as to being working class or upper class ( I wonder who who thought those labels up?) I just want to be a decent human being, I don't begrudge people earning higher wages but I do begrudge those that pay themselves obscene amounts and then whine about paying taxes and then squirrel it away in an off shore account to avoid their responsibilities, the same people that can get justice when others are denied it, because of who they are, most people aren't looking for utopia just a little more equality, I was always told that I was no better than anybody else but that nobody else was better than me.


[/quote]

Which members of the Royal Family Casper ? Name them ( but please don't mention Prince A, that is another topic altogether)


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Election 2019 [Re: granny] #1072938
5th Dec 2019 1:08am
5th Dec 2019 1:08am
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Posts: 12,916
Birkenhead
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Civil Servants are aligned to the Government, if it is a Tory Government they are aligned to the Tory Government, if it is a Labour government they are aligned to the Labour Government. The Civil Service are the executive of the Government.

The Crown Estate is on permanent loan to the Government from the Crown as a means of payment, Crown Estates are directly answerable to the Government.

The Duke's Financial troubles were way back in 1979 when he inherited the estate which he had been already managing for a number of years but had mistakenly trusted others to manage for him.

It was hardly philanthropic to invest in something he owned, he was investing for profit not for the greater good. He had the full backing of the Council to create Liverpool One at the expense of the some of the City's main shopping areas, look what happened to Dale Street, London Road, Renshaw Street, Lime Street etc.

There is no slaying of the rich, there is removal of some tax relief the Tories gave them (whilst imposing austerity on the rest).

You know the full story of Peel Holdings, a company that specialises screwing funds from the public purse to make their profits. They pull local Council's in with wild promises which the Council invests in more and more until they have over-committed then Peel can just do what it likes by holding them to ransom.

Gerald didn't die yesterday, be careful with your cut and pastes.

Which of the following Countries do you consider Marxist?
Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Finland
Netherlands
New Zealand
Portugal

They are all pretty much aligned with the current Labour party proposals and they are doing very well, even Portugal despite their massive debt. We have had such a long period of mostly right-wing capitalist rule and false threats of reds-under-the-beds that we have forgotten what normality and morality are.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Election 2019 [Re: diggingdeeper] #1072939
5th Dec 2019 9:49am
5th Dec 2019 9:49am
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Oxton
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Civil Servants are aligned to the Government, if it is a Tory Government they are aligned to the Tory Government, if it is a Labour government they are aligned to the Labour Government. The Civil Service are the executive of the Government.


Civil servants are aligned to the civil service. I always thought Yes Minister was a spoof until I started to work closely with both!

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