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Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: diggingdeeper] #1071607
24th Sep 2019 9:21am
24th Sep 2019 9:21am
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Gibbo Offline
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The Labour Party Conference voted against Remain. I always thought the average socialist would be against the EU and it was a media Blairite myth that they were pro-EU.


Did you see the show of hands though - it was still pretty much 50-50. And that's Labour's problem. Remainers are now drifting to the Lib Dems and Leavers to the Tories and Brexit party.

Corbyn sits on the fence becuase he's scared of actually leading and making a decision - and that shows why he'd make a poor PM. He can't even manage his own party, what use would he be on the world stage?

Then you have Kier Stamer. He thinks he can hop over to Europe and negotiate the best deal ever, even when Europe knows he's a staunch Remainer.

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Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: Gibbo] #1071609
24th Sep 2019 2:11pm
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Originally Posted by Gibbo
Did you see the show of hands though - it was still pretty much 50-50


It wasn't anywhere near 50-50, the show of hands was clearly against the proposal and that's why it didn't go to a card vote. It was confused by Wendy Nichols messing up and getting things back to front,


Originally Posted by Gibbo
Corbyn sits on the fence becuase he's scared of actually leading and making a decision - and that shows why he'd make a poor PM. He can't even manage his own party, what use would he be on the world stage?


Corbyn isn't in a position to make a decision, that is called democracy.

Name another party leader that has managed their own party successfully? Corbyn is no different in that respect, we don't want a dictator running this country, parties will be a "broadchurch" just like the population are but those parties should stay in their own corners..

Considering Corbyn took over a socialist party whose MPs had been very heavily infiltrated by Tories he has done an amazing job, not helped by the MSM being bribed/cajoled/blackmailed by the Conservative Government.

They used to say he wasn't strong enough, he has survived more attacks than any other leader in UK political History and is still there and is still supported by more people than any other individual politician in the EU, is that not showing strength?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: diggingdeeper] #1071613
25th Sep 2019 9:09am
25th Sep 2019 9:09am
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It appears Boris is the only one who believes he's right, speaking on the outcome of the court case, he didn't agree with the result, it sounded like a parking ticket he was disputing, when asked questions while sitting with Trump he appeared stuck for words, Trump just shrugged it off as another day at the office, two peas in a pod arrogance and contempt.

Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: diggingdeeper] #1071614
25th Sep 2019 9:28am
25th Sep 2019 9:28am
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
It wasn't anywhere near 50-50, the show of hands was clearly against the proposal and that's why it didn't go to a card vote. It was confused by Wendy Nichols messing up and getting things back to front,


Watch: the moment Labour almost backed Remain
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/watch-the-moment-labour-almost-backed-remain/


Was this when the fix went in? Moment Labour conference chair changed her mind about result of crucial Brexit vote after Jeremy Corbyn's loyal lieutenant had a word
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...al-lieutenant-saved-Brexit-disaster.html

If the vote was so overwhelming for Corbyn, why the refusal of a card vote?


Majority of 2017 Labour voters think Jeremy Corbyn should step down as leader, poll finds
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...my-corbyn-step-down-leader-a9115976.html


What's worse is that the party has now lost some of its more moderate MPs like Chuka Umunna, and he'll take the voters to the Lib Dems with him.

When it looked like he was going to be the leader in 2015 I felt that the party had turned a corner and that with him at the helm it would lead to a fresh start from the disastrous last days and Brown and Blair, and the punishment Miliband got because of them (although I still say they chose the wrong Miliband).

But Corbyn fans can't see this. They've got the old style Labour leader they've sorely missed, but its costing them power. And McDonnell and his zany schemes of 30 hour weeks, £10 an hour wages for kids and free healthcare isn't helping. I hope they're planting those money trees on Corbyn's allotment.

Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: Gibbo] #1071616
25th Sep 2019 6:17pm
25th Sep 2019 6:17pm
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Originally Posted by Gibbo
[quote=diggingdeeper]

But Corbyn fans can't see this. They've got the old style Labour leader they've sorely missed, but its costing them power. And McDonnell and his zany schemes of 30 hour weeks, £10 an hour wages for kids and free healthcare isn't helping. I hope they're planting those money trees on Corbyn's allotment.


I thought we already received free health care, Scotland and Wales already get free prescriptions so why not us? why is a 32 hour week zany? manufacturing industries are dying, we have robots doing more and more of the mundane repetitive jobs, the future is becoming a reality the times they are a changing, and what is the Tory answer, if you have no job starve, if you are working carry on until you are in your seventies, but then they have always gone for the easy option, if your business is in trouble grab the cash and run, never mind those that are left behind without a livelyhood or those left with huge unpaid bills or depleted pension pots, if brexit has done nothing else it has turned the spotlight on those that purport to govern us they are shown for what they really are.

Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: diggingdeeper] #1071617
25th Sep 2019 9:16pm
25th Sep 2019 9:16pm
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OMG!! Watching that shower shouting and bawling in the House of Commons today, what a pantomime!! To think this lot deciding our future makes you shudder!! Makes me want to go off grid somewhere to escape it all!...a bit trivial but couldn’t help notice that Jo Swinton looks like Sturgeon in looks, anyone else think so ?

Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: diggingdeeper] #1071620
25th Sep 2019 10:30pm
25th Sep 2019 10:30pm
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I think they might be surprised to know how many people have tuned in and watched their antics. Have to agree with you Cools.
Jo Swinson , well she has the gift of the gab, like Sturgeon does. Is it all Scots who shout and bluster their way through everything.

Did you see the clip when Boris exposed Swinson's letter to the President of the EU Commission asking him not to do a deal with UK ? That was an eye opener .

Seem like anarchy has reached Parliament .


Here :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49833561/lib-dem-leader-jo-swinson-demands-apology-from-pm


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: diggingdeeper] #1071621
25th Sep 2019 10:41pm
25th Sep 2019 10:41pm
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granny Offline
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So far as free prescriptions go in England... pensioners get them, unemployed get them, students get them, children get them, tax credits get them, low income get them, medical conditions with disability get them, maternity/pregnant mums get them.
In fact just about everyone does, apart from healthy working people above a certain income and I'm sure most Labour supporters would consider the rich should pay for their prescriptions.

A wasted promise to be used as a vote catcher.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: Gibbo] #1071622
26th Sep 2019 12:36am
26th Sep 2019 12:36am
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diggingdeeper Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Gibbo
If the vote was so overwhelming for Corbyn, why the refusal of a card vote?


It wasn't a vote about Corbyn it was a vote to remain.

Wendy Nicolls (who wants remain) as Chair was the only person who could decide if there was a card vote or not, she chose not to have a card vote because she knew a review of the videos would show there was an overwhelming majority of votes against the remain motion and therefore she couldn't go to a card vote.

Originally Posted by Gibbo
What's worse is that the party has now lost some of its more moderate MPs like Chuka Umunna, and he'll take the voters to the Lib Dems with him.


How anyone can think Jo Swindon is a moderate is way beyond me, her voting record is more right wing than IDS, but the media aren't publicising her policies just how she attacks other politicians. She hasn't got an ounce of empathy in her body, vote Jo and you get Attila.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: granny] #1071624
26th Sep 2019 8:04am
26th Sep 2019 8:04am
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wallasey
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Originally Posted by granny


So far as free prescriptions go in England... pensioners get them, unemployed get them, students get them, children get them, tax credits get them, low income get them, medical conditions with disability get them, maternity/pregnant mums get them.
In fact just about everyone does, apart from healthy working people above a certain income and I'm sure most Labour supporters would consider the rich should pay for their prescriptions.

A wasted promise to be used as a vote catcher.


And thereby lays the problem granny define low income, we are into the same territory as the 75 plus tv licence, just a few £'s can take people over the defining line for all kinds of benefits and assistance, and £8.80 is outrageous, so much for a free NHS, now I wonder who put these charges up ?

Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: casper] #1071625
26th Sep 2019 8:54am
26th Sep 2019 8:54am
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Gibbo Offline
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Originally Posted by casper
I thought we already received free health care, Scotland and Wales already get free prescriptions so why not us? why is a 32 hour week zany? manufacturing industries are dying, we have robots doing more and more of the mundane repetitive jobs, the future is becoming a reality the times they are a changing, and what is the Tory answer, if you have no job starve, if you are working carry on until you are in your seventies, but then they have always gone for the easy option, if your business is in trouble grab the cash and run, never mind those that are left behind without a livelyhood or those left with huge unpaid bills or depleted pension pots, if brexit has done nothing else it has turned the spotlight on those that purport to govern us they are shown for what they really are.


This is the care I was talking about:

A missed opportunity? Why Labour's social care policy has had a lukewarm response
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/25/labour-social-care-policy-lukewarm-response

As for the 32 hour week, explain how that will work for teachers and in schools?

And the retirement age in the UK follows the trend of most other EU countries. In the Netherlands the retirement age is 68 years old. People are lving longer, they're more capable of working in older age than in the past, and many don't want to stop working.

Although you're wrong about people working "in their seventies". The age of retirement is due to rise to 69 in 2046, and steadily rising the same in every other EU country. So don't blame the Tories for something that's happening across Europe.

Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: Gibbo] #1071626
26th Sep 2019 9:45am
26th Sep 2019 9:45am
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diggingdeeper Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Gibbo
Although you're wrong about people working "in their seventies". The age of retirement is due to rise to 69 in 2046, and steadily rising the same in every other EU country. So don't blame the Tories for something that's happening across Europe.


Just because leaders are in cahoots with each other doesn't make it right, it mainly exposes how inhumane they are.They are rich or get rich and want the country to become a bipartite wealth and social system.

The low wages for the young leaves a black hole in the pension system so they are increasing the pension age, they should be paying the young a fair wage instead .... but that wouldn't be in line with the greedy rich.

We have have a social system that financially discriminates against people up to the age of 35 now and other steps at 18, 21 and 25. these have all gradually crept in chipping away at the poorer majority of society.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: casper] #1071643
27th Sep 2019 8:18am
27th Sep 2019 8:18am
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granny Offline
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Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny


So far as free prescriptions go in England... pensioners get them, unemployed get them, students get them, children get them, tax credits get them, low income get them, medical conditions with disability get them, maternity/pregnant mums get them.
In fact just about everyone does, apart from healthy working people above a certain income and I'm sure most Labour supporters would consider the rich should pay for their prescriptions.

A wasted promise to be used as a vote catcher.


And thereby lays the problem granny define low income, we are into the same territory as the 75 plus tv licence, just a few £'s can take people over the defining line for all kinds of benefits and assistance, and £8.80 is outrageous, so much for a free NHS, now I wonder who put these charges up ?


Not for me to define low income, that's already been defined by Government. I know all about the few £'s taking one over the defining line.. I live with it , but I:m not so jealous of someone else receiving all the benefits that I am not allowed . However, take away the prescription charges from those earning over £17,000 up to £500,000 plus and what is it going to achieve.. ? Nothing ! All it is going to do is reduce the revenue already used to support the Health Services. Maybe he will introduce a new Bill where those earning more pay a higher charge for medication. Nothing would surprise me with him and his Marxist cohorts.
I take it, Casper you agree with Corbyn on other issues too ?

Anyway, each to their own, and I still love you, as we are grown up and we don't need to spit venom across the internet as so many MP's did across the floor of the House on Wednesday . Kissy, Kissy wink


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: diggingdeeper] #1071644
27th Sep 2019 8:48am
27th Sep 2019 8:48am
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Gibbo Offline
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Just because leaders are in cahoots with each other doesn't make it right, it mainly exposes how inhumane they are.They are rich or get rich and want the country to become a bipartite wealth and social system.


It doesn't make it wrong either. Many studies have revealed numerous benefits associated with working longer.

Working later in life can pay off in more than just income
Benefits such as mental stimulation and social engagement are associated with staving off chronic disease.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/stay...ife-can-pay-off-in-more-than-just-income

Re: Defend Democracy Protests [Re: diggingdeeper] #1071646
27th Sep 2019 11:30am
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Funny how most of the gentry live to a ripe old age and don’t do much apart from chase the chamber maid. It keeps you young though.

Anybody that’s daft enough to be a couch potato is bound to suffer health problems.

Are you “living” iif most of your life is in employment, it’s only a form of slavery.

Regardless how old people live to, generally their health and fitness starts sliding downhill long before death. Forcing them to work is in humane.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
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