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Living with universal 'wages' #1069618
9th Jun 2019 6:33pm
9th Jun 2019 6:33pm
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venice Offline OP

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Looks like if there was an election and Labour got in , John McDonnell is saying he would put Liverpool forward as a test area for a' universal basic income for everyone ' . I believe this failed in Finland , not sure about Canada , and Scotland are planning but yet to action it . Do you think it would work in Liverpool ,and would you like to see it in Wirral ?

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Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069632
9th Jun 2019 7:44pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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It’s not just Labour, the Tories are looking at it as well.

The trial is doomed to failure because for some perverse reason it is going to be paying only half of what has been established as the minimum amount.

If anyone can give me some insight as to why they are trialing with half the amount I would amazed.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 9th Jun 2019 7:46pm.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069639
9th Jun 2019 8:50pm
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venice Offline OP

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I didn't know that . If it was a similar amount to universal credit, what would the difference be ? atm you have to apply for and accept suitable work offered in order to get your universal credit - would you not have to do the same to get your basic income I wonder?

Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069644
9th Jun 2019 9:22pm
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granny Offline
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Maybe we'll all be on benefits soon then. How on earth can it be half of the minimal amount ? They tried this in a similar way with the Job Evaluation scheme rolled out nationally. A particular job would be paid within a certain grading . Many lost their jobs with that, many others got masses amount of back pay. It also reduced the jobs . i.e. if two people did the same job between them at £10,000 each, but one person could do the job for £19,000 , that was the one who won the prize. So that job was then classified as a £19,000 job.

I maybe on the wrong track , but I can't see it working. Why are we always having to face change after change after change ? No wonder no one can get their lives established and finances in order.

Of course , we know what McDonnell' s hideous ideas are and what they would lead to .


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069666
9th Jun 2019 10:22pm
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Originally Posted by venice
atm you have to apply for and accept suitable work offered in order to get your universal credit - would you not have to do the same to get your basic income I wonder?


No, that's why it called universal, everybody except pensioners gets it unconditionally.

The majority of Governments want to introduce it as it makes a lot of sense even if it is counterintuative, however, there is a lot of opposition to it.

The small Finnish experiment didn't fail, nothing became worse, some things improved but employment levels didn't change.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069667
10th Jun 2019 12:35am
10th Jun 2019 12:35am
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_Ste_ Offline
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They are all full of utter S**t!

Don't listen to a word they say. They are there to put you down not help you, i realised that 11 years ago and never looked back.

Tossers the lot of them.

Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069668
10th Jun 2019 12:45am
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The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Don't be a sheep.


Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069677
10th Jun 2019 8:27am
10th Jun 2019 8:27am
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granny Offline
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Interesting Ste. My grandfather always told his children, " There's no such word as 'can't'.. you can if you try " .


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069678
10th Jun 2019 8:39am
10th Jun 2019 8:39am
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The real reason UBIs are being considered is to shore up the capitalist system.

When all workers are replaced by machines, and nobody gets paid, there will be no customers for what factories produce and the whole system will collapse. Solution: Print money and give it to the displaced workforce.This isn't as daft an idea as it sounds, given that the money spent will eventually come back as tax, and remember that although money cannot be created by you and me, it can and is created by governments at a sufficient rate to keep inflation at about 2%. This works out at increasing the amount of money by about 5 to 10% each and every year.

We are already at a stage where we can produce far more than is needed, which is why the huge advertising industry exists. (Around £23 billion in teh UK alone) It is there to persuade us we really need things that we don't like self-driving cars, pancake mix, and 'smart' egg boilers!

UBI seems to me inevitable, eventually, We will all be on 'benefits' which will be enough to live on. Those who have jobs too will be very few in number and be a lot richer.

Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069682
10th Jun 2019 11:48am
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That is the thing with UBI, it is attractive to both capitalists and socialists albeit for different reasons.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: diggingdeeper] #1069700
10th Jun 2019 5:35pm
10th Jun 2019 5:35pm
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venice Offline OP

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I read this and presumed withholding/cutting payment made the universal credit indirectly conditional ? ( the responsibilities I thought were actively looking and preparing for work etc and taking a job offer deemed suitable ?)

Q&A's
'Do you have to sign on with Universal Credit?'

'You may get a cut in your Universal Credit payment, known as a sanction, if you don't meet your responsibilities and can't give a good reason to explain why.'


Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by venice
atm you have to apply for and accept suitable work offered in order to get your universal credit - would you not have to do the same to get your basic income I wonder?


No, that's why it called universal, everybody except pensioners gets it unconditionally.

The majority of Governments want to introduce it as it makes a lot of sense even if it is counterintuative, however, there is a lot of opposition to it.

The small Finnish experiment didn't fail, nothing became worse, some things improved but employment levels didn't change.

Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069744
10th Jun 2019 11:09pm
10th Jun 2019 11:09pm
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Posts: 12,667
Birkenhead
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Ah, yes, my mistake, didn't realise that UC also incorrectly uses Universal.

Universal credit is conditional on signing on if you work less than 35 hours a week or if you do not jump through the many and obscure hoops that they "ask" (demand) of you.

Universal Basic Income (which also has numerous other names) is unconditional other than age.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn

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