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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: svenlock68]
#1065341
11th Feb 2019 1:33pm
11th Feb 2019 1:33pm
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 357 Wallasey
Habdab
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You don't by any chance subscribe to the Flat Earth Society do you?
Fetere sum, ego sum Ergo
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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: Habdab]
#1065343
11th Feb 2019 4:15pm
11th Feb 2019 4:15pm
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383 svenlock68
svenlock68
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You don't by any chance subscribe to the Flat Earth Society do you? A great man once said " dont let historical fact get in the way of the " truth " " . Gw is utter tosh & thats a fact. Thats why its been re branded " climate change " cause were actually getting cooler. Its the same as the abuse brexiters get yet look into uk History about the 6 " primacy over member states " treaties , their wording etc that good old queen liz and ALL PMs signed between 91 & 08 . While the uk was asleep at the wheel. Most government is totally corrupt but we just let it pass us by. Were busy getting morbidly obese , watching tv diarrhoea , junk sports , fantasy movies & porn. Switched off uk. Oh yes dont forget paying 700 % on our loans buying junk we dont need to keep up with the chav neighbours.
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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: svenlock68]
#1065353
11th Feb 2019 9:12pm
11th Feb 2019 9:12pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,871 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper

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I agree with you sven, there is one indisputable fact that proves they are wrong.....
CO2 is most certainly not at its highest that is has ever been on earth, how did the earth recover last time?
In the Cambrian period the CO2 levels were 4000 ppm, ten times what they are at the moment.
It is also a struggle to see why there is also global warming on Mars whose ice caps are also melting, I guess a little pollution from Earth goes a long way.
They would be much better off looking at magnetism instead of pollution. The amount of energy involved in disturbing the earth's magnetic field is enormous, far greater than all the furnaces and boilers sitting on the earth's surface.
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: svenlock68]
#1065364
12th Feb 2019 1:33pm
12th Feb 2019 1:33pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,871 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper

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in 1990/91 I was employed by the Government to study and report on CFC's and I found many statistics were wildly inaccurate, we were discovering figures that were out by factors of over 100. Whilst we couldn't produce accurate figures either, we could establish fairly accurate minimums and maximums in many cases. When we found a figure that was out by at least 100 (I think 127 was one of the very first case I looked at), it could have been out by much more than that.
Here are a series of facts some of which should make anyone question the validity of CFC's substantially causing holes in the ozone layer.
The density of air is 1.27 kg/m3, the density of most of the relevant CFC's are four to six times more dense than that (5 kg/m3 to 7.5 kg/m3), they naturally sink in air and are far heavier than Carbon Dioxide (1.94 kg/m3) which is the heaviest common component of air.
The scientists tell us that due to winds, convection currents and the natural energy of gases (sorry, I've forgotten the term but its the molecules flying around very fast in all directions) that separation of gases in air doesn't happen much especially as the atmosphere is a relatively narrow band around planet.
Therefore the proportion of CFC gas at ground level is at least the same as the proportion at the ozone layer - yet we are told the CFC's float upwards to the ozone layer.
CFC's don't do much damage to the ozone layer! What happens is the sun breaks down the CFC and it is the Chlorine that attacks ozone. Chlorine is heavier than air and less heavy than most of the relevant CFC's. The density of Chlorine is 3.2 kg/m3.
Ozone (O3) is produced when the sun hits normal Oxygen (O2), it never lasts long (half life 30 minutes-ish) and its density is 2.14 kg/m3.
The ozone layer is not a thin layer at the top, the atmosphere is generally taken to be 62 miles high, the ozone layer is 25 miles of this and is between 6 miles and 31 miles above earth.
There is only a tiny amount of ozone in the ozone layer (this raises a massive topic in its own right).
Since the ban on CFC's in 1996 it is not a secret that many countries carried on producing it in vast amounts (the loophole was that they were allowed to carry on selling current stocks that were already manufactured). Some countries are still producing it to this day.
Ok, now here are some punch lines (there are many more) .....
Despite the ban on CFC's being ignored on a grand scale, the increase (recovery) in ozone has happened far quicker than predicted. In fact at one time they were stating that the increase wouldn't even start for 50 years, it happened in less than 20 years.
Despite the claims that the densities do not cause separation layers because of extensive mixing, they recently identified a rough area of earth where a relatively small amount of CFC was being produced from the effect on the ozone layer above. Either there is extensive mixing or there isn't.
Here is a list of the gases mentioned above (and some other common ones) by their density (heaviest lowest) which would be their natural separation due to gravity. The CFC's are hugely denser than everything else, whilst its believable that some oxygen could drift to the top (due to similar-ish density to most of the gases) and get turned into ozone (which then sinks, producing a deep layer instead of a narrow band), its incredulous that significant amount of CFC's get up there, especially as its clear that the ozone falls.
Nitrogen 1.23 Carbon Monoxide 1.23 Air (average) 1.27 Oxygen 1.41 Carbon Dioxide 1.94 Ozone 2.14 Chlorine 3.2 CFC's 5 to 7.5
Why was Chlorine not more controlled, it is the chemical that destroys ozone, surely it would be at least a high a priority as CFC's especially as it is lighter and more prone to rise to the ozone layer.
@Salmon, the question about Global Warming and Human Made Global Warming are separate subjects, don't forget we have just come out of a natural major ice age and a minor ice age>
It is also impossible for the ozone hole to remain closed, the whole is a natural effect by the laws of physics.
Last edited by diggingdeeper; 12th Feb 2019 1:37pm.
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: Salmon]
#1065367
12th Feb 2019 1:54pm
12th Feb 2019 1:54pm
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383 svenlock68
svenlock68
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The hole in the ozone layer did not fix itself, it has shrunk because CFCs were banned in 1996, 22 years ago. Scientists estimate the hole will not completely close till about 2060, 4 years ahead. As for no global warming, perhaps a visit to Novaya Zemlya to discuss the subject with the polar bears would influence your thinking.
Thinking of that very point , werent they supposed to die out on mass due to GW !? More tosh. Yes theyre hungry just like mountain bears who smash car doors in canada. Id feed em but theyll probably shoot them. Thats how we deal with things as a race. Yes were destroying where they live but i doubt its the ice caps melting BS . More theres over population plus less fish to go round or seals etc
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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: svenlock68]
#1065373
12th Feb 2019 7:08pm
12th Feb 2019 7:08pm
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 381 Wirral
philmch
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I would suggest that the so-called "ill informed distracted youth" are considerably more informed than you would imagine. Furthermore, I'd be inclined to listen to the opinions of a respected scientific organisation than the beliefs of some local yokels with poor literacy skills. I would suggest that you take a look at: https://climate.nasa.gov/ Click on the Facts tab at the top and have a good hard read of the Evidence section. I'd further draw your attention to the quote "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal.- Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change".
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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: svenlock68]
#1065379
12th Feb 2019 9:03pm
12th Feb 2019 9:03pm
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,928 Wallasey
Salmon

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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: philmch]
#1065383
12th Feb 2019 9:47pm
12th Feb 2019 9:47pm
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383 svenlock68
svenlock68
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[quote=philmch]I would suggest that the so-called "ill informed distracted youth" are considerably more informed than you would imagine. Furthermore, I'd be inclined to listen to the opinions of a respected scientific organisation than the beliefs of some local yokels with poor literacy skills. I would suggest that you take a look at: https://climate.nasa.gov/ Click on the Facts tab at the top and have a good hard read of the Evidence section. I'd further draw your attention to the quote "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal.- Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change".[/quote Yokels ha ha. Ive mentioned : A meteorologist Top guy in the usa on geology . Friends of science are the top level brains that ARENT on the payrolls of noah & nasa As i mentioned before " paramitisation " is the use or mis use over inflated weather computer models & how to make short term increase in temp every 60 years look never ending .....patrick j michaels de bunked all the nasa rubbish on you tube. Take a look if u dare. Piers corbyn asked the climate change " giants " to debate him anywhere in the world for 100k ...funny enough all these GW believers ran away. He betted on the weather years ago & won loads. I wonder why...what do u think ? mr wise man. Hes done it on tv many times...well , the ones who allow him. The great thing is GW will be self de bunked as we wont be under water or dying of the heat or ice caps in our garden in 20 / 30 years or so. In time itll wipe itself out not prove itself. Sit back & watch. Piers has also de bunked the 97 % of all scientists clap trap too. Uk public ARE completely distracted by tripe .. easily. Just like brexit .....the young dont know british History....the treason of heath, the magna carta , that the EU and eec is a nazi idea from 1942 etc totally corrupt....the illegality of the eu arrest warrant , 170000 regs , 100000 bank accounts to pay people off , the IMF mafia destroying countries via the euro then taking all its assets to be " saved " , look up martha andresson who was sacked as the EU accountant cause she dared bring up " 95 % of all eu spending is untraceable & fraudulent " they used the lisbon treaty to sack her / take away her pension. But whats really important is whether a 19 yr old can go to on holiday freely and we get enough cabbages etc.. Oh YAWN..
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Re: Very ill informed distracted youth " protesting "
[Re: philmch]
#1065384
12th Feb 2019 10:01pm
12th Feb 2019 10:01pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,871 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper

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Furthermore, I'd be inclined to listen to the opinions of a respected scientific organisation than the beliefs of some local yokels with poor literacy skills. You mean rely on people whose financial existence depends on continued investigation, bound to be unbiased aren't they! We went through a period of Government research grants being cut then suddenly out the blue comes greenhouse gases followed by global warming fed in a hysterical manner to the media. If you want to see how accurate scientific organisations are then look at the medical world where "proven concepts" are regularly being turned one hundred and eighty degrees. Look at geologists that still haven't got a clue what is inside the earth and are probably about to finalise another concept after years of being wrong. Look at weather forecasting which is still not more accurate than that famous yokel Farmer Giles. As for NASA, just look at the number of mistakes they have made despite all the expertise and money, SpaceX has done more in a shorter period, with less people and with a fraction of the budget compared to NASA's own projects. "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal.- Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change". That is one of the two tricks they use to state a high percentages of scientists "agree". Do I believe in global warming? Yes! Do I believe that man contributes to global warming? Yes! So the answer to those two questions is often taken as a done deal, however what about the next question .... Do I believe man made global warming is significant compared to natural global warming? No!
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Toyah . .
by GaryFromWirral. 10th Jan 2021 1:39pm
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AQUARIUM
by lincle. 8th Jan 2021 10:47am
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Toyah . .
by GaryFromWirral. 10th Jan 2021 1:39pm
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Sunrise Wed 8:13am
Sunset Wed 4:33pm
Local Time Wed 3:34am
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