WikiWirral Online with you since 2003, fantastic.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,015,490
Topics74,947
Members12,945
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs10
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
40 registered members (ae179s, 9 invisible), 1,157 guests, and270 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
56 cctv
New General Forums
Not What You Expect?
by diggingdeeper. 18th Apr 2019 6:06pm
Julian Assange.
by snowhite. 17th Apr 2019 1:35pm
Potholes
by snowshoes. 11th Apr 2019 3:17pm
SAGA
by diggingdeeper. 4th Apr 2019 2:55pm
New Wirral History
Wallasey Man 1970s
by Markjon88. 11th Apr 2019 3:00pm
Looking for Joneses
by Markjon88. 11th Apr 2019 8:06am
1915riots
by Johnjcarruthers. 9th Apr 2019 9:47pm
Help to find family members /history
by Jones1407. 7th Apr 2019 10:59pm
Manifolds, Wilsons. Meacocks & Barnes - 1820s
by bliplandy. 20th Mar 2019 6:18am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
WW1 Monument, Birkenhead
No more bridge, never be the same
Topic Replies
Not What You Expect?
by Excoriator. 19th Apr 2019 6:08pm
Rescued Animals.
by granny. 19th Apr 2019 5:35pm
What song are you listening to?
by Dilly. 19th Apr 2019 1:44pm
On This Day in HIstory
by snowhite. 18th Apr 2019 6:19pm
Electric Water Boiler / Tea Urn Wanted
by diggingdeeper. 18th Apr 2019 10:13am
Samsung tv
by Mike_Hoylake. 17th Apr 2019 2:41pm
cctv
by Excoriator. 16th Apr 2019 7:49pm
Project Fear III
by casper. 16th Apr 2019 12:00pm
Memories of Digby's Club?
by Erainn. 16th Apr 2019 11:08am
April
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rating 5
% or actual numbers as well #1064560
24th Jan 2019 12:46pm
24th Jan 2019 12:46pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,080
Birkenhead
derekdwc Online content OP
Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,080
Birkenhead
I personally would like to be told about actual numbers as well as %s, as I think just a % is a way of dumbing down things so that they more or less just go over the general population heads.
Typically %s made by politicians and the media.
Another bugbear with me is when politicians often say a majority of people want what that politician wants done.
How do they know what 60 odd million think or want at that particular time (apart from general elections or referendums results which could change further down the line)
Can many mps answer an awkward for them a straight forward question with a yes or no answer

sorry for rambling on

Last edited by derekdwc; 24th Jan 2019 12:49pm.
Google Ads
Re: % or actual numbers as well [Re: derekdwc] #1064561
24th Jan 2019 1:17pm
24th Jan 2019 1:17pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,470
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,470
Birkenhead
It works both ways, percentage is a good indication of majority (proportion) displayed as one figure eg

If I said that there are 50 broken items in my warehouse you can't tell if that is significant or not, if I only have 100 items in the warehouse then its very significant, if I have a million items its almost irrelevant, the corresponding percentages are 50% and 0.005% which give an instant indication.

What I don't like about media statistics is they often don't tell you the scope eg If the Wirral Globe says 30% of people have had measles, are they talking about in the Wirral, in England, in the UK or in the World?

There are always ways of wording things to mislead, whether intentional or not, part of that comes from the old problem of trying to create a statement that is true. The standard answer that is often used is along the lines of "I am going to die" but that is not a certainty for a number of reasons, a good answer I came across is "I have written this sentence" which I think would be better as "I have thought this sentence".

Then there are perfectly true statements that appear to be contradictory when they aren't eg (along the lines of) 70% of people that have had measles have had measles.

Have I out-rambled you?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: % or actual numbers as well [Re: diggingdeeper] #1064566
24th Jan 2019 2:01pm
24th Jan 2019 2:01pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,080
Birkenhead
derekdwc Online content OP
Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,080
Birkenhead
If I said that there are 50 broken items in my warehouse you can't tell if that is significant or not, if I only have 100 items in the warehouse then its very significant, if I have a million items its almost irrelevant, the corresponding percentages are 50% and 0.005% which give an instant indication.

[/quote]

If you just said the percentages and not what they were a percentage of (the 50 or a million) I would be none the wiser, ergo that's why I would like to see numbers as well as percentages.
eg There is talk of cutting the number police horses by 50%, that is 150 out of 300

yes you outrambled me

Re: % or actual numbers as well [Re: derekdwc] #1064600
24th Jan 2019 11:46pm
24th Jan 2019 11:46pm
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 779
Greasby
G
Greenwood Offline
Wise One
Greenwood  Offline
Wise One
G
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 779
Greasby
What a good job there isn't an odd number of police horses - that could get a bit Damien Hurst...

Re: % or actual numbers as well [Re: derekdwc] #1064606
25th Jan 2019 11:23am
25th Jan 2019 11:23am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,635
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,635
wirral
Percentages and actual numbers are often used to political ends. It's up to you to look behind what is said to assess for yourself whether it's meaningful or not.

A recent example was the 14% increase in UK homicides. The actual number was an increase of 90. You are fifteen times more likely to be killed by a domestic accident than to be murdered, even after this increase!

And if you don't live in London, are not young, a member of a gang or involved in the supply of drugs, then you are more likely to be struck by lightning than to be murdered.

The police play this up in the hope of more funding, the newspapers play along to sell copies, and politicians use it to bash the government for not having more police, although its hard to see how more police could have reduced this increase anyway. Their job is primarily to catch murderers after the event, rather than preventing them in the first place.

'Knife crime' is another area where it's up to you to look behind the news and the statistics. I'd been using a Stanley knife to trim some photographs and unthinkingly slipped the thing into my pocket. I later went to the supermarket and discovered it in my pocket. Had I been involved in a crime there such as shoplifting, I would have been charged, also, of a knife crime!

My point is that nobody will do your homework for you. Indeed, they will rely on your NOT doing it to manipulate your opinions as they see fit. It's entirely up to you to convert percentages into numbers and vice versa and make your own assessment of whether the way they are used is fair. NOT doing so makes you a mouthpiece for someone else's views.


Last edited by Excoriator; 25th Jan 2019 11:26am.
Re: % or actual numbers as well [Re: derekdwc] #1064607
25th Jan 2019 12:22pm
25th Jan 2019 12:22pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,332
Wirral
Moonstar Online content

Forum Addict
Moonstar  Online Content

Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,332
Wirral
How to Lie With Statistics is a very popular book.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/143096368581?chn=ps

Re: % or actual numbers as well [Re: derekdwc] #1064609
25th Jan 2019 12:59pm
25th Jan 2019 12:59pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,080
Birkenhead
derekdwc Online content OP
Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,080
Birkenhead
It looks like you can read that book online and possibly download it

click to read

Re: % or actual numbers as well [Re: derekdwc] #1064644
25th Jan 2019 8:08pm
25th Jan 2019 8:08pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,913
Wallasey/New Brighton
J
j_demo Offline
Forum Addict
j_demo  Offline
Forum Addict
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,913
Wallasey/New Brighton
Cosmetic products are guilty of this. You often see in adverts that 95% of people think blah blah but the number at the bottom of the screen is something like 38 out of 39 people and not a decent sample size.


Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Not What You Expect?
by diggingdeeper. 18th Apr 2019 6:06pm
cctv
by uptonbaz. 14th Apr 2019 2:40pm
Get your cat neutered.
by venice. 14th Apr 2019 10:50am
Wallasey Man 1970s
by Markjon88. 11th Apr 2019 3:00pm
Looking for Joneses
by Markjon88. 11th Apr 2019 8:06am
For Sale & Free
Electric Water Boiler / Tea Urn Wanted
by Reno37. 17th Apr 2019 9:56pm
Samsung tv
by Mike_Hoylake. 17th Apr 2019 2:41pm
Looking for a old Bench Grinder
by Bultaco. 15th Apr 2019 9:27pm
Dart Board
by chrislfc87. 14th Apr 2019 7:40pm
Socket set
by Heidi123. 14th Apr 2019 1:39pm
Member Spotlight
Pete_M
Pete_M
Wallasey/Egremont
Posts: 377
Joined: December 2010
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Shellster, LonelyDartsClub, kevnaff, ae179s, Jothesniper02
12945 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Bouncey thing
by Bultaco. 24th Mar 2019 11:42am
New Council Tax bill 2019
by keef666. 18th Mar 2019 11:13am
Builder problems, advice needed
by TudorBlue. 12th May 2017 7:24pm
New Brighton Hotel name and information?
by PaddyHaig. 14th Apr 2013 4:07pm
News : New Topics
Egg run
by lincle. 7th Apr 2019 10:27am
Office Supplies.
by Excoriator. 4th Apr 2019 3:39pm
New Brighton has a dream ?
by GaryFromWirral. 3rd Apr 2019 2:53pm
Another "Austerity" Measure
by diggingdeeper. 24th Mar 2019 6:18pm
Giant rabbit startles motorist.
by Excoriator. 17th Mar 2019 9:58am
New Enthusiast Forums
Get your cat neutered.
by venice. 14th Apr 2019 10:50am
If this IS a scam, it stinks.FB post
by venice. 5th Apr 2019 10:27am
Exploring with fighters ... on the ferry
by GaryFromWirral. 26th Mar 2019 12:05am
New Brighton Tunnels ??
by GaryFromWirral. 26th Mar 2019 12:02am
Ladybird Books on Brexit
by granny. 24th Mar 2019 11:22pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Fri 6:02am
Sunset Fri 8:20pm
Local Time Fri 9:58pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1