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Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: j_demo] #1063505
26th Dec 2018 3:28am
26th Dec 2018 3:28am
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Originally Posted by j_demo
I don't understand why people get so uppity about halal meat. It tastes the same, just has taken a slightly different path from pasture to plate than "conventional British methods".


Because there is the push for more pure halal in the form of un-stunned slaughter like kosher.

Your argument also works the other way, why are Muslims so uppity about non-halal meat, it tastes just the same etc....


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Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063513
26th Dec 2018 4:18pm
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If I was an animal I know what way I would like to go - stunned all the way.

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063532
27th Dec 2018 10:01am
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Quite so Heswall. I cant understand people who cant empathize with the suffering of animals-- why is it I wonder? Ignorance in so much as they dont understand all animals are sentient beings? Total inability to imagine suffering in any creature bar humans? Lacking in compassion to the point where they think suffering in other species just doesnt matter ?

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063535
27th Dec 2018 11:14am
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While I agree the animal shouldn't suffer, what concerns me is the want of some people to inflict various types of cruelty it is forms of barbarism, blood lust, sadism etc. That's not the sort of society that most of us want, they should go and live in a jungle if they want to regress to wild behaviour.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063547
27th Dec 2018 1:35pm
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No , I dont want them being brutal to animals in the jungle either lol! I dont think theres an answer really , you cant MAKE people sensitive to things they naturally arent . All you can do is keep providing evidence of where the cruelty happens, and hope enough people are against it to make laws to prevent it, and keep pressure on to make sure laws are kept. (In theory anyway)

UNLIKE blinking Norway , and Iceland and probably Japan , over the whaling , and France over what it damn well likes !

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063556
27th Dec 2018 10:53pm
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Originally Posted by venice
No , I dont want them being brutal to animals in the jungle either lol! I dont think theres an answer really , you cant MAKE people sensitive to things they naturally arent . All you can do is keep providing evidence of where the cruelty happens, and hope enough people are against it to make laws to prevent it, and keep pressure on to make sure laws are kept. (In theory anyway)

UNLIKE blinking Norway , and Iceland and probably Japan , over the whaling , and France over what it damn well likes !
Can you imagine how many live stock are being slaughtered[ Muslims see it as a sacrifice by cutting the throats of the animal] with out being stunned,Thousands would be a guess?pending how many Muslims are living in the UK. It is a slow death causing suffering to the animal.





Last edited by snowhite; 27th Dec 2018 10:55pm.
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: snowhite] #1063564
28th Dec 2018 9:42am
28th Dec 2018 9:42am
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What about our own hooray Henry's, hunting foxes down and shooting grouse all jolly good sport don't you know, might get the chance to give one of those bally awful protester's a damn good thrashing with ones crop.

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063570
28th Dec 2018 11:45am
28th Dec 2018 11:45am
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Hooray Henry's have had their Boxing Day meet, and if they are playing by the rules, no foxes killed. If they are not playing by the rules (as in certain parts of the country) possibly a dozen foxes ?

The difference is Casper, that halal meat is ' sacrificial offerings' in both Islam and Judaism.

The link is an interesting read on Dhabihah, not much turns my stomach, but this did due to the explanations of certain processes and controversies. There is also a paragraph which says the following : (so why has it been rejected I was under the impression the Government were to take advice from such bodies of authority, that's what they are there for ?)

The UK Farm Animal Welfare Council says that the method by which kosher and halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and it should be banned immediately.[27] According to FAWC it can take up to two minutes for cattle to bleed to death, thus amounting to animal abuse. Compassion in World Farming also supported the recommendation saying "We believe that the law must be changed to require all animals to be stunned before slaughter."[28][29] The UK government rejected its recommendations.[30]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: snowhite] #1063572
28th Dec 2018 11:55am
28th Dec 2018 11:55am
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Originally Posted by snowhite
Originally Posted by venice
No , I dont want them being brutal to animals in the jungle either lol! I dont think theres an answer really , you cant MAKE people sensitive to things they naturally arent . All you can do is keep providing evidence of where the cruelty happens, and hope enough people are against it to make laws to prevent it, and keep pressure on to make sure laws are kept. (In theory anyway)

UNLIKE blinking Norway , and Iceland and probably Japan , over the whaling , and France over what it damn well likes !
Can you imagine how many live stock are being slaughtered[ Muslims see it as a sacrifice by cutting the throats of the animal] with out being stunned,Thousands would be a guess?pending how many Muslims are living in the UK. It is a slow death causing suffering to the animal.


Thousands Snowy ? they are probably the ones that are 'rustled' from the farms in Lancashire. ?

Over 900 million farm animals are killed every year in the UK for meat. Many of these animals are killed by having their throats cut and the vast majority are stunned - rendering them unconscious - before this is done. However, the law permits Jewish and Muslim communities to slaughter animals according to their religious beliefs, which can involve slaughtering the animals without stunning them first. Whilst the RSPCA acknowledges that due to the religious association of this practice this can be a sensitive issue, it firmly holds the view that all animals should be treated humanely at the time of killing and therefore be stunned prior to slaughter.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: granny] #1063573
28th Dec 2018 4:33pm
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[quote=granny]
Hooray Henry's have had their Boxing Day meet, and if they are playing by the rules, no foxes killed. If they are not playing by the rules (as in certain parts of the country) possibly a dozen foxes ?

The difference is Casper, that halal meat is ' sacrificial offerings' in both Islam and Judaism.

I know granny as I said myself in an earlier post, but is there not some element of paganism in the hunting of wildlife purely for sport, the taking of trophies, the blooding in fox hunting, shooting deer with a state of the art rifle, wow that must be a buzz, I wonder if they would be so keen to face the ultimate test of being on the hunted side?

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063606
29th Dec 2018 1:41pm
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Yes, I agree with you casper. The same people have 4x4's to pull the horse boxes, pollute the environment with methane gases, drink champagne, and have duck, turkey, pheasant, goose, beef and pork for their Xmas dinner. How do we kill pheasants and other birds ? Probably some or none of which are halal products. Once upon a time, we used bows and arrows, was that a better option, or traps and pits ? We still have badger baiting... they're all human initiated activities.

A fox killed by a pack of wolves is not halal either and more instantaneous than a cow strung up so it can't move during a halal ritual killing, in which, if the blood clots and the brain is not bled, the cow is aware and conscious of the horrific act and the pain as the spinal column is not allowed to be severed.
Yes, fox hunting banned by the Blair Government, the same government did not (want to) see the suffering with the halal or kosher killings and rejected the observations.

I assume you are saying that halal is better than fox hunting, where the animal against animal has a natural way if stunning and killing the fox. Animals have their own food chain and an inbuilt ability to deal with a hunt . If the hounds were allowed out and about freely, they would be killing all sorts of animals they come in contact with for food.
You just have an issue with the bugle brigade, and I have an issue with those who sit at many tables in high places, being fed halal or kosher food and imposing their immoral legacies of archaic religious practices into our country and onto our dinner tables and putting us in a position of being 'silenced ' against anything which might offend them. How about us being offended ? I suppose their prayers helps them when they tuck in !

Last edited by granny; 29th Dec 2018 1:45pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: granny] #1063607
29th Dec 2018 2:24pm
29th Dec 2018 2:24pm
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A

I assume you are saying that halal is better than fox hunting, where the animal against animal has a natural way if stunning and killing the fox. Animals have their own food chain and an inbuilt ability to deal with a hunt . If the hounds were allowed out and about freely, they would be killing all sorts of animals they come in contact with for food.
You just have an issue with the bugle brigade, and I have an issue with those who sit at many tables in high places, being fed halal or kosher food and imposing their immoral legacies of archaic religious practices into our country and onto our dinner tables and putting us in a position of being 'silenced ' against anything which might offend them. How about us being offended ? I suppose their prayers helps them when they tuck in !
[/quote]

No I didn't mean that granny, the point I was trying to make was that they are all ritualistic and have no place in society be it the halal butchers or the hunters, both are as bad as each other, yes and I am offended that we have to be a part of it.

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063610
29th Dec 2018 5:36pm
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Yes, Casper they are all ritualistic, and as a country that sport was banned ....... but we can't ban halal though, ever, not now !

I just wish that some of these people (politicians) who sit and decree, would have to complete work experience to include a day at an abattoir, or a chicken factory. I often wonder if the DEFRA and RSPCA officials do actually watch and experience in these slaughter houses, or if they just do 'tick boxes' as in if the place is clean and tidy (!) or washed down after every slaughter, etc.? I don't believe they do experience such horrors , I bet they just go on what is told to them and probably lies .


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063620
29th Dec 2018 10:42pm
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Halal allows for the animals to be stunned, Kosher doesn't (I'll go into hiding while waiting for the anti-Semitic headlines in the papers tomorrow).

As of the 5th of November it was compulsory for slaughterhouses to have CCTV cameras installed. The recordings have to be available for 90 days.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063855
7th Jan 2019 6:17pm
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Belgium have banned the practice of un-stunned slaughter, needless to say there are claims of violation of religious freedom and human rights.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
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