WikiWirral is where great friendships are made.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,192
Posts1,032,415
Members14,198
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
17 members (Anne8, 4 invisible), 1,078 guests, and 253 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,268
granny 17,740
_Ste_ 16,338
Newest Members
Anne8, PaulW51, Testerbester, Aisha94, sueoakley29
14,198 Registered Users
New General Forums
Picture you are not allowed to see
by Excoriator - 4th Aug 2022 9:28am
Open air swimming pool
by cools - 13th Jul 2022 9:13am
The beast . . .
by GaryFromWirral - 28th Feb 2022 1:48pm
Mavic Mini Drone - help needed please
by gerrymoore - 10th Dec 2021 3:28pm
New Wirral History
The old Farmers Arms Moreton
by LindaTay - 30th Jul 2022 4:48pm
Voss Motors
by johncon - 30th Jul 2022 1:21pm
Tracing history of Bob simister motorcycles.
by Philoman - 10th Jun 2022 2:20pm
276 Rock Villa Hotel Ltd 329 Old Chester Road
by derekdwc - 18th Aug 2011 11:13pm
Mansions of Wallasey : Around Grove Road
by PaulWirral - 31st Jul 2009 10:37pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 8
_Ste_ 7
Leonny 7
Topic Replies
Mansions of Wallasey : Around Grove Road
by Mark - 10th Aug 2022 8:28pm
Volkswagen T4 Autosleeper Trooper LE VW Campervan
by polo_phil - 9th Aug 2022 11:25am
Exchange Rates
by BultacoAstro - 6th Aug 2022 12:12pm
Mavic Mini Drone - help needed please
by Leonny - 5th Aug 2022 4:09am
Kitchen Appliances
by gerry1 - 2nd Aug 2022 1:10pm
Voss Motors
by billy_anorak59 - 2nd Aug 2022 8:22am
Clarke 180E Arc Welder - gwo
by gerrymoore - 1st Aug 2022 7:25am
Ipad Mini 5 256gb (slate grey)
by Catsick - 31st Jul 2022 2:51pm
The old Farmers Arms Moreton
by bert1 - 31st Jul 2022 8:37am
August
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Mark 1
Top Likes Received
Mark 4
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#1063378 23rd Dec 2018 12:24pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
venice Offline OP
Forum Guardian
OP Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Is there going to be pressure on all companies to make their products automatically Halal , since continuing to provide two different versions may not be financially viable , as we have already seen in the production of meat to schools in some places. We seem to me to be getting swept down a very slippery road.


https://boycotthalal.com/how-compan...l-RCzrCkanVbPUGTjhn0PO5A9bos2DvmjpxMNOAY

Google Ads
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Surely certifying food as halal is religious discrimination? I'm sure if bread was labelled as "not for Muslims" there would be a huge outcry.

I thought that something that was halal was only allowed to be produced and prepared by Muslims?


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Forum Guide
Offline
Forum Guide
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
There's some pretty serious ranting in the comments on that article... ugh. If all meat becomes halal - which I VERY much doubt it will - that would greatly further the cause of vegetarianism, I reckon, which would probably be a good thing for the environment and our innards.

One response actually made me laugh:

'Arabic script must be outlawed on all products for UK consumption, because we don’t know what it says'.

Oh dearie me. Where does that leave Welsh, then? Or Gaelic in the Highlands and Islands - in the Hebrides all the road signs are in Gaelic only. Or any other language on imported foreign food? I'm eating some rather good Polish biscuits at the moment and you have to look quite hard to find the English on that packaging. There are usually English translations on food labelling anyway. People may well have concerns, but getting hysterical about it in the way that article does isn't going to help anyone.
Still, it makes a change from Br*x*t!

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,740
Likes: 1
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,740
Likes: 1


Vegetarianism might be a good thing Greenwood, but I don't think the way to go about it is to pamper to the minorities , which ultimately become the majority with the loudest voice, forcing the indigenous Christians of this country to adapt to other religious practices, because quite simply, they ARE religious practices.... i.e. following the laws of Moses.
Will pork be taken off the school menus, and bacon removed from the supermarket shelves eventually. I would be in complete agreement with that, providing it was due to personal choice, not because it had been forced upon us.
When the people are pushed and forced into situations they reject and they feel strongly about.... we know what happens .

Should we also take on board the Maasai practice of drinking cows blood ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Forum Guide
Offline
Forum Guide
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
I'd go to the barricades for the bacon butty, but will skip on the cow's blood - though I used to eat black pudding years ago; the thought of that makes me cringe now. You make a strong point on the matter of personal choice. It should be a choice, not a compulsion. I don't have a problem with using food labelling so people can avoid things which are wrong for them from a health or belief point of view, but imposing things on people who do not share those beliefs is wrong. There should be clear information and the chance for people to make an informed choice.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
3.4million muslims out of a population of 65 million.( https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/tran...ofinformationfoi/muslimpopulationintheuk) I think the balance of economical power is not with Halal. Weve seen ISIS and the like are pretty good at butchering so i would think muslims can sort out their own Halal meat.

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,095
Wiki Addict
Offline
Wiki Addict
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,095
Despite recent reports to the contrary, many fast-food and restaurant chains in Britain have been using halal – in Arabic "permissible" or "lawful" – meat for years. Nearly 100 KFC outlets around the country serve halal-approved chicken, as do around 75 – a fifth – of Nando's. The sandwiches served in selected Subway stores have contained halal meat since 2007, while all Pizza Express chicken is halal. Even McDonald's trialled a halal offering, before deciding the changes required to its kitchen procedures would be too great.

Sainsbury's, Tesco and Morrisons, which sell halal ranges at selected stores, and Boots, which sells halal baby food, serve halal meat firstly because people want it: Britain's Muslim population is growing – 3% of the population in the 2001 census, 5% in 2011, and an estimated 8.2%, or around 5.6 million people, by 2030. As KFC puts it: "Feedback from consumers has indicated that there is significant demand for halal food … We've chosen [to serve it] in stores in areas where we expect demand for halal restaurants."

For Pizza Express, as for the major food service companies that supply schools, hospitals and airlines, serving halal chicken across the board simplifies the supply chain and minimises the risk of complaints from customers who may unknowingly eat non-halal meat.

There remains, of course, the risk of complaints from customers who unknowingly eat halal meat – which is why restaurants should make clear, as most do in their windows and on their menus and website, what they are serving. (KFC and Nando's both also say they ensure, when opening a new halal restaurant, that there is a non-halal one nearby.)

There is considerable confusion, however, about exactly what halal meat is. Islamic rules require the animal to be slaughtered while alive and healthy, that the appropriate Islamic blessing be recited, and, crucially, that it be killed by a single, quick cut to the throat and its blood allowed to drain out fully.

That sounds bad. But banner headlines about "ritually slaughtered meat" conceal the fact that, according to a 2012 Food Standards Agency report cited by the RSPCA, 97% of cattle, 96% of poultry and 90% of sheep slaughtered using the halal method in UK abattoirs are stunned before being killed – a procedure that makes them insensible to pain and distress.

That, of course, means that up to 10% of British halal meat may come from animals that have not been slaughtered in a way animal welfare experts consider humane: some stricter Muslims insist stunning is not halal, and some halal authentication bodies – of which there are five in the UK alone – deem it an offence against Qur'anic law and tradition. But the halal meat served by KFC, Nando's, Pizza Express and Subway is certified by bodies that do permit pre-stunning. These chains stress that their suppliers are "contractually obliged" to provide only pre-stunned meat, that all EU and UK legislation has been met, and, in the words of KFC, that "none of our welfare standards have been compromised".

People should, of course, know exactly what they are eating. But they should also know that, in terms of animal welfare, the RSPCA makes no distinction between pre-stunned halal meat and conventionally slaughtered meat. It argues only that consumers should have "the right to choose whether or not they wish to buy meat from animals slaughtered without pre-stunning". The headlines do not always make that clear.
As 2018 draws to a close….

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Forum Guide
Offline
Forum Guide
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Very clear explanation; thank you for that.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
So all vegetarian and vegan foods are implicitly halal and don't need certification, as they don't need certification, labelling them as halal is somewhat misleading.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Forum Guide
Offline
Forum Guide
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Milk may be okay but there might be issues around what the cattle feed contains.There may be a problem with cheese, due to the origin of enzymes used in the process of making it. Ditto yougurt, possibly. I'm learning new things today, it's all a lot more complicated than I thought!

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
As with all religion, each believer thinks that their religion is the only true one, yet they are all a variance of one and the same, one supreme being, the way food religion wise is prepared or cooked no doubt arises from the way sacrifices were prepared, the pope has made his speech attacking the culture of greed as he stands bedecked in gold in Vatican city, but hey ho will sit down to my turkey on the lords birthday.

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
venice Offline OP
Forum Guardian
OP Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Originally Posted by snowhite
Despite recent reports to the contrary, many fast-food and restaurant chains in Britain have been using halal – in Arabic "permissible" or "lawful" – meat for years. Nearly 100 KFC outlets around the country serve halal-approved chicken, as do around 75 – a fifth – of Nando's. The sandwiches served in selected Subway stores have contained halal meat since 2007, while all Pizza Express chicken is halal. Even McDonald's trialled a halal offering, before deciding the changes required to its kitchen procedures would be too great.

Sainsbury's, Tesco and Morrisons, which sell halal ranges at selected stores, and Boots, which sells halal baby food, serve halal meat firstly because people want it: Britain's Muslim population is growing – 3% of the population in the 2001 census, 5% in 2011, and an estimated 8.2%, or around 5.6 million people, by 2030. As KFC puts it: "Feedback from consumers has indicated that there is significant demand for halal food … We've chosen [to serve it] in stores in areas where we expect demand for halal restaurants.

For Pizza Express, as for the major food service companies that supply schools, hospitals and airlines, serving halal chicken across the board simplifies the supply chain and minimises the risk of complaints from customers who may unknowingly eat non-halal meat.

There remains, of course, the risk of complaints from customers who unknowingly eat halal meat – which is why restaurants should make clear, as most do in their windows and on their menus and website, what they are serving. (KFC and Nando's both also say they ensure, when opening a new halal restaurant, that there is a non-halal one nearby.)

There is considerable confusion, however, about exactly what halal meat is. Islamic rules require the animal to be slaughtered while alive and healthy, that the appropriate Islamic blessing be recited, and, crucially, that it be killed by a single, quick cut to the throat and its blood allowed to drain out fully.

That sounds bad. But banner headlines about "ritually slaughtered meat" conceal the fact that, according to a 2012 Food Standards Agency report cited by the RSPCA, 97% of cattle, 96% of poultry and 90% of sheep slaughtered using the halal method in UK abattoirs are stunned before being killed – a procedure that makes them insensible to pain and distress.

That, of course, means that up to 10% of British halal meat may come from animals that have not been slaughtered in a way animal welfare experts consider humane: some stricter Muslims insist stunning is not halal, and some halal authentication bodies – of which there are five in the UK alone – deem it an offence against Qur'anic law and tradition. But the halal meat served by KFC, Nando's, Pizza Express and Subway is certified by bodies that do permit pre-stunning. These chains stress that their suppliers are "contractually obliged" to provide only pre-stunned meat, that all EU and UK legislation has been met, and, in the words of KFC, that "none of our welfare standards have been compromised".

People should, of course, know exactly what they are eating. But they should also know that, in terms of animal welfare, the RSPCA makes no distinction between pre-stunned halal meat and conventionally slaughtered meat. It argues only that consumers should have "the right to choose whether or not they wish to buy meat from animals slaughtered without pre-stunning". The headlines do not always make that clear.
As 2018 draws to a close….



I think that article is a little misleading when it says the RSPC doesnt distinguish between the two types of slaughter and only argues for 'the right to choose' . It makes it sound as if they dont object to slaughter without stunning ---- and they DO. I wasnt aware, but in the article below , it would seem that stunning in the second after a cut to the throat , would satisfy most Muslims, but NOT the Jewish religion. Interestingly it seems to imply that UK law insists on pre tunning , and that its EU law which allows exceptions for religious groups to have non pre stunned meat . So if we leave .......... could we use the opportunity to leave it as a ban ?? That would set the cat amongst the pigeons wouldnt it !!!

https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/l...at_are_we_doing_about_non_stun_slaughter

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,740
Likes: 1
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,740
Likes: 1


The 'gold' does not belong to the Pope, Casper.. you should know that, my lovely X Happy Christmas.

The restrictions and laws surrounding food, are very different . Where Islam will accept certain methods of stunning animals prior to slaughter, Judaism will not accept any form of stunning. Kosher food is much more strict, so far as I can see.
Judaism requires a fully competent slaughterer , whilst Islam can be just about anyone, providing they say a prayer over the animal before death.

It's all Abrahamic basis, and very much like the executions we have seen in the ME, the ones which we can't stomach. Same rules apply I imagine. So should we accept it for animals, but not for humans ? That doesn't seem right.... all sentient beings.!!


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
I know granny, I could have quoted Islam,the money spent on jihad, different ballroom same dance, I must have my humbug head on today, thank you for your Christmas wishes, the kiss will linger for the rest of the day, may I wish you and your family the very best for Christmas and the New Year. xx

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,925
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,925
I don't understand why people get so uppity about halal meat. It tastes the same, just has taken a slightly different path from pasture to plate than "conventional British methods".

Belief is a beautiful armour, but makes for the heaviest sword. And all that...

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Exchange Rates
by BultacoAstro - 6th Aug 2022 9:11am
The old Farmers Arms Moreton
by LindaTay - 30th Jul 2022 4:48pm
Voss Motors
by johncon - 30th Jul 2022 1:21pm
Parking fine
by Wickerman - 23rd Jul 2022 8:42pm
Eastham history
by MarkConnor1978 - 22nd Jul 2022 1:21pm
For Sale & Free
Volkswagen T4 Autosleeper Trooper LE VW Campervan
by polo_phil - 9th Aug 2022 11:25am
Kitchen Appliances
by gerry1 - 2nd Aug 2022 1:10pm
Ipad Mini 5 256gb (slate grey)
by Catsick - 28th Jul 2022 1:15pm
Myford ML7 lathe with accessories
by spider - 28th Jun 2022 3:36pm
Clarke 180E Arc Welder - gwo
by gerrymoore - 22nd Jun 2022 8:47am
Member Spotlight
polo_phil
polo_phil
Birkenhead
Posts: 3,081
Joined: January 2009
Today's Birthdays
Pete_M
New Wirral Info
Exchange Rates
by BultacoAstro - 6th Aug 2022 9:11am
Parking fine
by Wickerman - 23rd Jul 2022 8:42pm
Eastham history
by MarkConnor1978 - 22nd Jul 2022 1:21pm
Portable BBQ's on beaches
by granny - 9th Jul 2022 8:53am
Restaurant/pub with outdoor seating - Bromborough
by CarterUSM - 7th Aug 2020 8:59pm
News : New Topics
Budgie found
by kenmo52 - 2nd Jul 2022 8:25pm
The State of Wirral these days 2022?
by keef666 - 23rd Jun 2022 10:05am
Ignoring the law
by Excoriator - 4th Jul 2018 9:55am
New Enthusiast Forums
System Meltdown
by GaryFromWirral - 8th Jul 2022 2:50pm
Super Bowl Chilli
by granny - 5th Feb 2019 3:13pm
Rockferry Baptist church
by georgie - 19th Nov 2010 11:11pm
What song are you listening to?
by - 24th Jun 2007 10:06am
Popular Topics(Views)
4,961,726 WIKI WALK CHAT
3,906,503 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5