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Islamification of our country? #1063378
23rd Dec 2018 11:24am
23rd Dec 2018 11:24am
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venice Offline OP

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Is there going to be pressure on all companies to make their products automatically Halal , since continuing to provide two different versions may not be financially viable , as we have already seen in the production of meat to schools in some places. We seem to me to be getting swept down a very slippery road.


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Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063383
23rd Dec 2018 5:06pm
23rd Dec 2018 5:06pm
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Surely certifying food as halal is religious discrimination? I'm sure if bread was labelled as "not for Muslims" there would be a huge outcry.

I thought that something that was halal was only allowed to be produced and prepared by Muslims?


If I accidentally express an opinion then I humbly apologise, please give me a polite reminder that there are highly sensitive and nefarious people that don't like opinions, facts or history - but still visit forums!

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063393
23rd Dec 2018 6:43pm
23rd Dec 2018 6:43pm
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There's some pretty serious ranting in the comments on that article... ugh. If all meat becomes halal - which I VERY much doubt it will - that would greatly further the cause of vegetarianism, I reckon, which would probably be a good thing for the environment and our innards.

One response actually made me laugh:

'Arabic script must be outlawed on all products for UK consumption, because we don’t know what it says'.

Oh dearie me. Where does that leave Welsh, then? Or Gaelic in the Highlands and Islands - in the Hebrides all the road signs are in Gaelic only. Or any other language on imported foreign food? I'm eating some rather good Polish biscuits at the moment and you have to look quite hard to find the English on that packaging. There are usually English translations on food labelling anyway. People may well have concerns, but getting hysterical about it in the way that article does isn't going to help anyone.
Still, it makes a change from Br*x*t!

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063428
23rd Dec 2018 10:36pm
23rd Dec 2018 10:36pm
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granny Offline
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Vegetarianism might be a good thing Greenwood, but I don't think the way to go about it is to pamper to the minorities , which ultimately become the majority with the loudest voice, forcing the indigenous Christians of this country to adapt to other religious practices, because quite simply, they ARE religious practices.... i.e. following the laws of Moses.
Will pork be taken off the school menus, and bacon removed from the supermarket shelves eventually. I would be in complete agreement with that, providing it was due to personal choice, not because it had been forced upon us.
When the people are pushed and forced into situations they reject and they feel strongly about.... we know what happens .

Should we also take on board the Maasai practice of drinking cows blood ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063440
24th Dec 2018 10:20am
24th Dec 2018 10:20am
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Greasby
I'd go to the barricades for the bacon butty, but will skip on the cow's blood - though I used to eat black pudding years ago; the thought of that makes me cringe now. You make a strong point on the matter of personal choice. It should be a choice, not a compulsion. I don't have a problem with using food labelling so people can avoid things which are wrong for them from a health or belief point of view, but imposing things on people who do not share those beliefs is wrong. There should be clear information and the chance for people to make an informed choice.

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063457
24th Dec 2018 12:16pm
24th Dec 2018 12:16pm
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fish5133 Offline
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3.4million muslims out of a population of 65 million.( https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/tran...ofinformationfoi/muslimpopulationintheuk) I think the balance of economical power is not with Halal. Weve seen ISIS and the like are pretty good at butchering so i would think muslims can sort out their own Halal meat.

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063459
24th Dec 2018 12:24pm
24th Dec 2018 12:24pm
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Despite recent reports to the contrary, many fast-food and restaurant chains in Britain have been using halal – in Arabic "permissible" or "lawful" – meat for years. Nearly 100 KFC outlets around the country serve halal-approved chicken, as do around 75 – a fifth – of Nando's. The sandwiches served in selected Subway stores have contained halal meat since 2007, while all Pizza Express chicken is halal. Even McDonald's trialled a halal offering, before deciding the changes required to its kitchen procedures would be too great.

Sainsbury's, Tesco and Morrisons, which sell halal ranges at selected stores, and Boots, which sells halal baby food, serve halal meat firstly because people want it: Britain's Muslim population is growing – 3% of the population in the 2001 census, 5% in 2011, and an estimated 8.2%, or around 5.6 million people, by 2030. As KFC puts it: "Feedback from consumers has indicated that there is significant demand for halal food … We've chosen [to serve it] in stores in areas where we expect demand for halal restaurants."

For Pizza Express, as for the major food service companies that supply schools, hospitals and airlines, serving halal chicken across the board simplifies the supply chain and minimises the risk of complaints from customers who may unknowingly eat non-halal meat.

There remains, of course, the risk of complaints from customers who unknowingly eat halal meat – which is why restaurants should make clear, as most do in their windows and on their menus and website, what they are serving. (KFC and Nando's both also say they ensure, when opening a new halal restaurant, that there is a non-halal one nearby.)

There is considerable confusion, however, about exactly what halal meat is. Islamic rules require the animal to be slaughtered while alive and healthy, that the appropriate Islamic blessing be recited, and, crucially, that it be killed by a single, quick cut to the throat and its blood allowed to drain out fully.

That sounds bad. But banner headlines about "ritually slaughtered meat" conceal the fact that, according to a 2012 Food Standards Agency report cited by the RSPCA, 97% of cattle, 96% of poultry and 90% of sheep slaughtered using the halal method in UK abattoirs are stunned before being killed – a procedure that makes them insensible to pain and distress.

That, of course, means that up to 10% of British halal meat may come from animals that have not been slaughtered in a way animal welfare experts consider humane: some stricter Muslims insist stunning is not halal, and some halal authentication bodies – of which there are five in the UK alone – deem it an offence against Qur'anic law and tradition. But the halal meat served by KFC, Nando's, Pizza Express and Subway is certified by bodies that do permit pre-stunning. These chains stress that their suppliers are "contractually obliged" to provide only pre-stunned meat, that all EU and UK legislation has been met, and, in the words of KFC, that "none of our welfare standards have been compromised".

People should, of course, know exactly what they are eating. But they should also know that, in terms of animal welfare, the RSPCA makes no distinction between pre-stunned halal meat and conventionally slaughtered meat. It argues only that consumers should have "the right to choose whether or not they wish to buy meat from animals slaughtered without pre-stunning". The headlines do not always make that clear.
As 2018 draws to a close….

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063465
24th Dec 2018 3:05pm
24th Dec 2018 3:05pm
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Very clear explanation; thank you for that.

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063467
24th Dec 2018 6:41pm
24th Dec 2018 6:41pm
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diggingdeeper Offline
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So all vegetarian and vegan foods are implicitly halal and don't need certification, as they don't need certification, labelling them as halal is somewhat misleading.


If I accidentally express an opinion then I humbly apologise, please give me a polite reminder that there are highly sensitive and nefarious people that don't like opinions, facts or history - but still visit forums!

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063469
24th Dec 2018 7:26pm
24th Dec 2018 7:26pm
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Milk may be okay but there might be issues around what the cattle feed contains.There may be a problem with cheese, due to the origin of enzymes used in the process of making it. Ditto yougurt, possibly. I'm learning new things today, it's all a lot more complicated than I thought!

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063476
25th Dec 2018 9:28am
25th Dec 2018 9:28am
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wallasey
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As with all religion, each believer thinks that their religion is the only true one, yet they are all a variance of one and the same, one supreme being, the way food religion wise is prepared or cooked no doubt arises from the way sacrifices were prepared, the pope has made his speech attacking the culture of greed as he stands bedecked in gold in Vatican city, but hey ho will sit down to my turkey on the lords birthday.

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: snowhite] #1063478
25th Dec 2018 10:11am
25th Dec 2018 10:11am
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venice Offline OP

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Originally Posted by snowhite
Despite recent reports to the contrary, many fast-food and restaurant chains in Britain have been using halal – in Arabic "permissible" or "lawful" – meat for years. Nearly 100 KFC outlets around the country serve halal-approved chicken, as do around 75 – a fifth – of Nando's. The sandwiches served in selected Subway stores have contained halal meat since 2007, while all Pizza Express chicken is halal. Even McDonald's trialled a halal offering, before deciding the changes required to its kitchen procedures would be too great.

Sainsbury's, Tesco and Morrisons, which sell halal ranges at selected stores, and Boots, which sells halal baby food, serve halal meat firstly because people want it: Britain's Muslim population is growing – 3% of the population in the 2001 census, 5% in 2011, and an estimated 8.2%, or around 5.6 million people, by 2030. As KFC puts it: "Feedback from consumers has indicated that there is significant demand for halal food … We've chosen [to serve it] in stores in areas where we expect demand for halal restaurants.

For Pizza Express, as for the major food service companies that supply schools, hospitals and airlines, serving halal chicken across the board simplifies the supply chain and minimises the risk of complaints from customers who may unknowingly eat non-halal meat.

There remains, of course, the risk of complaints from customers who unknowingly eat halal meat – which is why restaurants should make clear, as most do in their windows and on their menus and website, what they are serving. (KFC and Nando's both also say they ensure, when opening a new halal restaurant, that there is a non-halal one nearby.)

There is considerable confusion, however, about exactly what halal meat is. Islamic rules require the animal to be slaughtered while alive and healthy, that the appropriate Islamic blessing be recited, and, crucially, that it be killed by a single, quick cut to the throat and its blood allowed to drain out fully.

That sounds bad. But banner headlines about "ritually slaughtered meat" conceal the fact that, according to a 2012 Food Standards Agency report cited by the RSPCA, 97% of cattle, 96% of poultry and 90% of sheep slaughtered using the halal method in UK abattoirs are stunned before being killed – a procedure that makes them insensible to pain and distress.

That, of course, means that up to 10% of British halal meat may come from animals that have not been slaughtered in a way animal welfare experts consider humane: some stricter Muslims insist stunning is not halal, and some halal authentication bodies – of which there are five in the UK alone – deem it an offence against Qur'anic law and tradition. But the halal meat served by KFC, Nando's, Pizza Express and Subway is certified by bodies that do permit pre-stunning. These chains stress that their suppliers are "contractually obliged" to provide only pre-stunned meat, that all EU and UK legislation has been met, and, in the words of KFC, that "none of our welfare standards have been compromised".

People should, of course, know exactly what they are eating. But they should also know that, in terms of animal welfare, the RSPCA makes no distinction between pre-stunned halal meat and conventionally slaughtered meat. It argues only that consumers should have "the right to choose whether or not they wish to buy meat from animals slaughtered without pre-stunning". The headlines do not always make that clear.
As 2018 draws to a close….



I think that article is a little misleading when it says the RSPC doesnt distinguish between the two types of slaughter and only argues for 'the right to choose' . It makes it sound as if they dont object to slaughter without stunning ---- and they DO. I wasnt aware, but in the article below , it would seem that stunning in the second after a cut to the throat , would satisfy most Muslims, but NOT the Jewish religion. Interestingly it seems to imply that UK law insists on pre tunning , and that its EU law which allows exceptions for religious groups to have non pre stunned meat . So if we leave .......... could we use the opportunity to leave it as a ban ?? That would set the cat amongst the pigeons wouldnt it !!!

https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/l...at_are_we_doing_about_non_stun_slaughter

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063480
25th Dec 2018 10:26am
25th Dec 2018 10:26am
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granny Offline
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The 'gold' does not belong to the Pope, Casper.. you should know that, my lovely X Happy Christmas.

The restrictions and laws surrounding food, are very different . Where Islam will accept certain methods of stunning animals prior to slaughter, Judaism will not accept any form of stunning. Kosher food is much more strict, so far as I can see.
Judaism requires a fully competent slaughterer , whilst Islam can be just about anyone, providing they say a prayer over the animal before death.

It's all Abrahamic basis, and very much like the executions we have seen in the ME, the ones which we can't stomach. Same rules apply I imagine. So should we accept it for animals, but not for humans ? That doesn't seem right.... all sentient beings.!!


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: granny] #1063482
25th Dec 2018 10:53am
25th Dec 2018 10:53am
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wallasey
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I know granny, I could have quoted Islam,the money spent on jihad, different ballroom same dance, I must have my humbug head on today, thank you for your Christmas wishes, the kiss will linger for the rest of the day, may I wish you and your family the very best for Christmas and the New Year. xx

Re: Islamification of our country? [Re: venice] #1063503
25th Dec 2018 6:22pm
25th Dec 2018 6:22pm
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I don't understand why people get so uppity about halal meat. It tastes the same, just has taken a slightly different path from pasture to plate than "conventional British methods".

Belief is a beautiful armour, but makes for the heaviest sword. And all that...

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