WikiWirral values you and your opinion.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,347
Posts1,033,259
Members14,550
Most Online16,551
Feb 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
9 members (3 invisible), 10,094 guests, and 611 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,788
_Ste_ 16,345
Newest Members
JohnC, Luke2307, jharwood, TamTam, mrbigglesworth
14,550 Registered Users
New General Forums
Do we need Trident?
by derekdwc - 20th Jan 2016 1:11pm
New Wirral History
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 11:56am
D.I.Y. / Building Shop
by mharford91 - 3rd Mar 2024 8:53pm
Looking for Joneses
by Markjon88 - 11th Apr 2019 7:06am
1970's Murder in Central Park, Wallasey
by cutespam - 4th Aug 2018 10:28am
Oleo Works
by Ducko - 14th May 2008 3:09pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
granny 15
casper 14
bri445 4
Topic Replies
This is Elvis
by GingerTom - 17th Mar 2024 2:37pm
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 12:20pm
Gaza
by granny - 15th Mar 2024 10:13pm
Get your Money Tree ready
by StellaSimmons - 11th Mar 2024 11:50am
D.I.Y. / Building Shop
by bri445 - 4th Mar 2024 5:54pm
Xbox
by TudorBlue - 3rd Mar 2024 8:48pm
Restaurant/pub with outdoor seating - Bromborough
by Abakumss - 2nd Mar 2024 3:52pm
Oleo Works
by diggingdeeper - 1st Mar 2024 11:51pm
Wiper mechanism needed
by Gibbo - 28th Feb 2024 12:29pm
March
M T W T F S S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
casper 1
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
Mark 4
granny 3
casper 3
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#1062970 11th Dec 2018 10:42pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Does anyone know of Carr House, or Carr Houses or Carr, near Moreton in the 17th century.

I have not heard of such a locality, but compozz is trying to find a connection to one of his ancestors.

( besides what we have as Carr Farm now, and I'm not sure how old that might be) Carr House Lane, Lydiate , is the nearest I can get.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carr_Houses

Last edited by granny; 11th Dec 2018 10:50pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Google Ads
granny #1062971 11th Dec 2018 11:07pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3


Well, bugger me ! I have just found reference to Carr Houses under Saughall Massey on Wikipedia .


It says :

Formerly a township in the Bidston Parish of the Wirral Hundred, the population of Saughall Massie and the nearby hamlet of Carr Houses was 98 in 1801, 176 in 1851 and 186 in 1901.[6] On 1 April 1974, local government reorganisation in England and Wales resulted in most of Wirral, including Saughall Massie, transfer from the county of Cheshire to Merseyside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saughall_Massie


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #1062972 12th Dec 2018 12:06am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,334
Likes: 18
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,334
Likes: 18
You back to Mr Bird again, the original Carr House was up around Westry Close, but somewhere around 1900 it moved to around Berwick Close which was previously owned by Bird.

I wonder if both properties were called Carr House, hence the plural name for the area?

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 12th Dec 2018 12:11am.

We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3


Wow ! Thanks, Yes Mr Bird again. Ha ! That flock are not going to fly off anywhere soon !

Where did you find that it was owned by Mr Bird ?

This could be the connection he wants for 'Carr Bird' 1600's


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #1062974 12th Dec 2018 1:13am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,334
Likes: 18
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,334
Likes: 18
Tithe records say the plot is owned by William Philips Trustee under the will of late Mr Bird.

Was surprised at how much property the Birds owned around Poulton, many of the properties were either William Bird, John Bird or the Reverend James Mainwaring.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
granny #1062978 12th Dec 2018 11:50am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3

http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithema...L%20OF%20LATE%20MR%20BIRD&random=477

It doesn't actually say Carr or 'Carr Houses' anywhere.

I have the WiIl of this Mr Bird... Joseph Bird Will dated, 1827. It's big !

extract:

. ' I bequeath unto my son Henry Bird, all and singular my houses, lands of inheritance, tenements, hereditaments '
Four daughters mentioned , Anne Philips, Margaret Barker, Joanna Godwin and Ellen Wilkinson.
In the event of Henry Bird not getting married in his lifetime or without issue, the above goes to his grandson Henry Wilkinson.
His beloved wife Jane , twenty pounds a year paid out of the money of mortgage with Henry Godwin of Saughall Massie.

Don't know which line Joseph comes from, possibly as his son was called Henry and his grandson was called Henry, Joseph would have likely been Henry's son, as there was a Henry Bird of Saughall Massey. (not sure when) , but as it's likely to be such a muddle, I think it can at least wait until after Christmas. Got enough going on in this poor mashed brain atm.


Last edited by granny; 12th Dec 2018 11:51am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #1062990 12th Dec 2018 4:53pm
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Forum Guide
Offline
Forum Guide
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
I think the oldest building at Carr Farm is the old stone farmhouse now occupied by Cottage Stoves on the yard. There are some pretty good curved beams in there (almost like a cruck frame, except you can't see the upstairs) and hints in the stonework that it might have been extended from one storey to two. Look beyond the whitewash and take a look inside and you'll find it intriguing.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Forum Veteran
Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
granny
Sally Carr lane and Carr houses on 1831 Bryant map

Attached Images
Sally Carr lane.jpg (105.4 KB, 35 downloads)
Last edited by derekdwc; 12th Dec 2018 5:05pm.
granny #1063010 12th Dec 2018 6:39pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,334
Likes: 18
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,334
Likes: 18
Originally Posted by granny

http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithema...L%20OF%20LATE%20MR%20BIRD&random=477

It doesn't actually say Carr or 'Carr Houses' anywhere.


Plot 78/79 is Carr House if you got to 1910 map, the older Carr House is North West up Carr Lane on the Tithe map, Bryant Map appears to have yet another Carr House, maybe, I haven't paired them up properly.

Tithe records often miss house or road names out.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
granny #1063011 12th Dec 2018 6:48pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Derek, thanks. However, I cannot view it. Not allowed..... prob because I haven't paid membership. Will have to sort it in the New Year after the electricity bill has been paid ! frown

Greenwood; Thanks for that, I was at Carr Farm last week having a look around. Will go again soon and have a look at the 'fire shop'

Last edited by granny; 12th Dec 2018 6:49pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #1063012 12th Dec 2018 6:58pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3


Thanks DD.

Compozz is trying to trace a relative who arrived in Virginia around 1680's . Name : Thomas Carr Bird. He seems fairly certain this is the right area. This is what he wrote to me : (hope you don't mind Compozz, but it saves you writing it all out again)

"Still, my people came from somewhere; based on what I’ve seen the Wirral is the best candidate for point of origin. There’s no one big thing but a dozen little things: the persistence of family folk memories (4-8 generations), concentration of the surname in an isolated area subject to emigration pressure over time, the repetition of Scottish/English names in my line, the links between the Virginia colony and the Massies of Saughall Massie, the DNA profile, the proximity to Liverpool "

Any ideas folks ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #1063021 12th Dec 2018 10:29pm
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 4
Beginner
Offline
Beginner
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 4
There were two other Birds in the area besides JAMES, both named Henry, in the late 1690s but all the heirs I've found died early. Thank you all for the help.

granny #1063022 13th Dec 2018 12:13am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
The only comment I make now is, that


Henry and Margaret (Thomason) married 1635 had 4 listed children that I can find.

William, 1637
Ellen 1639
Alice 1642
Mary. 1646

I wondered why they never had a son named Henry. If they did then he could be the one who went to Saughall.

James Bird (Brydd)and Elizabeth Askew married 1593
James Bird and Ales Henson married 1602
Henry Bird and Elizabeth Billingham married 1605 possibly Henricus Subsidy Roll Poulton C.S. 1625 and maybe Margaret Tomason was his second wife.

Henry Bird of Saughall had a Will dated 1690 which I do not have.

Last edited by granny; 13th Dec 2018 12:15am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #1063110 15th Dec 2018 8:25pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 417
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 417
Does anyone know of a connection between Salacre Lane ,Upton and Sally Carrs Lane in Moreton, or is it just a coincidence that they sound the same. (there was a house called "the Salacres" in Upton.

granny #1063119 15th Dec 2018 11:56pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3


Interesting question loco.
This doesn't give an answer to your question but it might be of interest .

Written by Stephen Harding the great Viking researcher.

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczsteve/JEPNS_Nov_Dec2007.pdf

Last edited by granny; 16th Dec 2018 12:03am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 11:56am
D.I.Y. / Building Shop
by mharford91 - 3rd Mar 2024 8:53pm
Xbox
by TudorBlue - 3rd Mar 2024 8:48pm
Possible Cause of Dementia
by diggingdeeper - 22nd Feb 2024 2:08am
Wiper mechanism needed
by Peter0787 - 20th Feb 2024 4:07pm
For Sale & Free
This is Elvis
by GingerTom - 17th Mar 2024 2:37pm
Member Spotlight
Gibbo
Gibbo
Formby
Posts: 2,282
Joined: December 2010
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Get your Money Tree ready
by keef666 - 22nd Mar 2023 12:27pm
Restaurant/pub with outdoor seating - Bromborough
by CarterUSM - 7th Aug 2020 7:59pm
Floral pavilion promo code?
by TheComputerLab - 31st Dec 2018 2:11pm
News : New Topics
Gaza
by diggingdeeper - 29th Oct 2023 9:28am
New Enthusiast Forums
Xbox
by TudorBlue - 3rd Mar 2024 8:48pm
Possible Cause of Dementia
by diggingdeeper - 22nd Feb 2024 2:08am
Wiper mechanism needed
by Peter0787 - 20th Feb 2024 4:07pm
Popular Topics(Views)
5,067,094 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,011,047 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5