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Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal #1062798
5th Dec 2018 11:57am
5th Dec 2018 11:57am
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granny Offline OP
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JRM has sussed out that Rules are rules that don't always get applied, depending on how the EU can tweek things when it suits.
Backstop, no backstop... it seems to be a stitch up .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4w7W-rduZ8


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1062799
5th Dec 2018 12:02pm
5th Dec 2018 12:02pm
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granny Offline OP
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1062844
7th Dec 2018 11:31am
7th Dec 2018 11:31am
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Moonstar Offline

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The whole debacle is a reflection of modern society. There will be tears.

Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: Moonstar] #1063043
13th Dec 2018 10:22pm
13th Dec 2018 10:22pm
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granny Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Moonstar
The whole debacle is a reflection of modern society. There will be tears.



You hit the nail on the head, Moonstar. Don't know whether to laugh or cry .

Does anyone see the point of a 'people's vote' that all the Remainers keep batting on about. If it's leave again, then what happens ? Same thing all over again so far as I can see.

Why don't they have a People's Vote for the Europeans, ask them what they think about us and what we should do ? It probably doesn't need a vote to tell us what we already know !
Same applies with Brexit..... we're leaving the EU and all their fishy tails.

Last edited by granny; 13th Dec 2018 10:23pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1063045
13th Dec 2018 10:38pm
13th Dec 2018 10:38pm
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Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1063046
13th Dec 2018 10:40pm
13th Dec 2018 10:40pm
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Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1063047
14th Dec 2018 12:56am
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Guy Verhofstadt is conniving and anti-British . He is one of the many who has been visiting our universities and giving guidance to our UK students and he's probably been conditioning the little sweet hearts into calling for another referendum. He hates Farage , and Farage returns the favour. I love JRM and Farage. They do at least bring up the issues that are of concern , the issues that no one else seems to want to air in public ! Now the pair of them are being side lined...... that's what you get for going against the establishment.
I See Verhofstadt has his henchmen backing him !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1063049
14th Dec 2018 1:33am
14th Dec 2018 1:33am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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We should simply go for the default of no deal, the EU will come to the necessary arrangements to ensure that trade, travel etc still happens, the border would not be closed (the Britannic Wall!). We completely sidestep any concept of being punished by the EU.

The EU will jump up and down about the lack of border in Ireland, they cannot force us to create a hard border and Southern Ireland has said it adamantly won't create one either. There are similar border issues elsewhere that have been resolved without a harder border. Don't forget that neither the UK nor Southern Ireland are in the Schengen area anyway, the only "leak" would be contained to UK and Ireland, not the rest of the EU, much the same as already happens elsewhere in some European places.

WTO rules would not be the end of the world, 43% of our exports are already under WTO rules, as are 34% of our imports.

Many items we purchase will be cheaper under WTO rules than the restrictive markets the EU allow us to use.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1063063
14th Dec 2018 10:59pm
14th Dec 2018 10:59pm
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granny Offline OP
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Yes, let's get out.. asap. We're not going to sink , unlike the future EU. Too many people to govern over there. 742,907,239 ... 10% of the worlds population and growing.

Keep hold of our own money and spend it the way we wish, not as they wish by picking our brains and Germany buying out our companies, making us the poor man and evermore reliant upon Brussels good nature. Ha !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1063067
15th Dec 2018 1:40am
15th Dec 2018 1:40am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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The EU is doomed to failure in its current form, the Euro ensures that. Having a common currency across such disparate countries creates a spiral, widening the wealth of the richest and poorest countries.

The Euro is undervalued for Germany which means German exports to non-EU countries are lower in price than they should be and so are more competitive.

The Euro is grossly over-valued for the poorer Mediterranean countries like Greece making exports from Greece to non-EU countries hugely overpriced, their survival is on the limited trade within the EU, the chances of recovery with little non-EU trade profits are very slim.

The end outcome is a German super-power within Europe, even France are feeling the pinch of this with Germany taking over the biggest amount of EU trade with the USA recently.

Why the poorer EU countries didn't realise the implications when they joined the EU is beyond me, did they really think the EU would continue to throw money their way to subsidise them? The continued expansion of the EU has watered down subsidies especially with the huge amounts Poland is absorbing, Brexit will impact subsidies hugely.

It seems a strange decision to increase the number of MEPs for the remaining countries in Europe after Brexit, I presume this the payoff for increasing the EU membership fees for those countries.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: diggingdeeper] #1063117
15th Dec 2018 11:34pm
15th Dec 2018 11:34pm
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granny Offline OP
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


Why the poorer EU countries didn't realise the implications when they joined the EU is beyond me, did they really think the EU would continue to throw money their way to subsidise them? The continued expansion of the EU has watered down subsidies especially with the huge amounts Poland is absorbing, Brexit will impact subsidies hugely.



IMO because they have been bamboozled and lied to . When a person joins a club they expect the best treatment, that's why they join. Only once they have joined do they get to see the battles and corruption within. Too late, and then they become part of the corruption.
I consider the EU a threat to the economy of all member states, and Europe as a middle ground for USA and it's military dominance, if needed.

Why is Russia a threat to the West ? Germany shouldered most of the blame for WWI and all the blame for WWII , and now all EU member states are best buddies, and Russia is the enemy. Have we been brainwashed ? I have to ask because I don't understand or can't remember what Russia has actually done. (that's not saying I like how Russia runs it's country) Germany is taking control again, in many ways. Mrs Merkel and Macron have even been involved in discussions and meetings of various levels, involving Syria and Israel along with Turkey and Russia. ! That is confusing.. !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1063176
17th Dec 2018 2:14pm
17th Dec 2018 2:14pm
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Posts: 383
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The EU is illegal under common law , has always been, heath commited sedition trying in 73.
Proved in foreign offices docs.
Sort it by repealing 6 treaties as null void. Repeal 72 eu act. Go and TELL them what we want and not go cap in hand and ask.
They dont want us to leave ( like cameron ) never did. Other countries would follow suit if it was easy smooth. Greece italy etc.
A brexiteer was needed as a leader of it not useless pro eu cruella de ville may.
They want us to be fed up / confused so they can feed us the tripe of a no brexit non choice of may deal or stay in.
Manufactured positioning. The only reason they voted for her is to stop labour getting in if another election went through & the uks chewing at the bit to get torys out after 8 yrs of shafting.
Vernon coleman dot com has all the History how eu is illegal from conception.

Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: granny] #1063211
18th Dec 2018 6:19pm
18th Dec 2018 6:19pm
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fish5133 Offline
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I suspect part of the "Russian Threat" scenario is to provide the bogeyman for us to want to stay in the EU ...the strength in numbers idea.

Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: fish5133] #1063215
18th Dec 2018 7:24pm
18th Dec 2018 7:24pm
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If Ivan rolls across Europe we will get dragged in regardless.

Re: Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal [Re: casper] #1063225
18th Dec 2018 8:28pm
18th Dec 2018 8:28pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by casper
If Ivan rolls across Europe we will get dragged in regardless.


That's the problem, is Putin pushing himself or is everybody else dragging him?

The absolute last thing Russia wants is another cold War, or worse still a real war. Financially it has only just got itself back on its feet and that has happened through co-operation with Europe and other places. If Europe tries to destabilise the Russian economy as it appears to be doing, Russia has little choice but to react.

Our greatest fear still should be the silent dragon, China has become rich, it has the financial and political ability to destabilise most of the rest of the world. With Russia on our side, China is much less of a concern.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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